No time for cowards — let's talk about race, America

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

How is it unequal? In order for that to be the case, the playing field would have to be level. If you look at unemployment, the rate of black people out of work is twice the national average. If blacks and whites were hired at an equal rate, then your line of thought would have merit.

What do you mean by this?

and if you look at Mean tested benefits, blacks are over twice the national average also, yet we have well over 10 million illegal immigrants working and thriving in this country. Hmmmm think about that

So the Presidents daughters should get automatic preferences just for being black and the son of a poor farmer in Ga should not just because of skin color. Sad

The ones that have earned the education the most should get that education. Not every single person has to have a university degree. It would be a better thing to teach kids that to succeed one must work hard and study to get a scholarship. Why is it supposed to be taught that every person except whites need the extra advantage and preferences? That is suggesting they are inferior people. They are not inferior people. No one is.

Truck driving is a great example. From what I understand companies are screaming for Truck drivers. Yet blacks scream they can't get a job

It is all about the lie/myth that all people are created(born) equally. Tell that to the Down syndrome baby!

Each race (averages here) has there differences. However, it is taboo to discuss these differences as anyone who does gets immediately labeled a racist. Since that vast majority of Americans fear being called a racist......it cannot be talked about.

It is what it is.

Racist

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

So using government intervention is the answer? How would you like to be the guy that was hired because of his race rather than his qualifications, with your co-workers knowing this? I doubt you'd get a lot of respect.

As far as a white felon having exactly the same chances as a black person with no record, I have to call bull$hit on that one. Being a white felon myself who has had 3 offer letters taken off the table in the last 2 years because of a felony conviction.

That is BS , and we have proven it many times. Some activist did some absurd study etc etc

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

So then maybe we should have some form of Affirmative action economically disadvantaged people.

To argue we should give someone a un equal advantage based solely on the color of their skin is suggesting that, their skin color alone puts them at a a disadvantage.

Now that is racist

I actually wouldn't object to an affirmative action for those who are economically disadvantaged as well. That being said, however, I know that part of the reason I have been able to dig myself out of the hole of poverty is that I pass for white and my mother gave me a white, anglo name. If I were a black girl named DeShawntelle or an east Indian girl named Raisha, I would not be so lucky. That's just a cold fact. My minority status is hidden.

This isn't just a US problem, either. It's an issue in Canada as well. I live in a VERY multicultural part of Canada. Since I moved to Toronto, I have worked front of house jobs, largely customer service. I would estimate that I've worked with over one hundred and fifty people directly. The only place I worked with any POC was at Tim Hortons, where I was working with a handful of Korean girls who were still working on their English. Every single other place I've worked, largely in sales, everyone has been white. In a city where nearly half the population are of visible minorities. I'm so glad I pass, because if I didn't, I'd be screwed. My passing privilege is why I can go upwards in society and I never, never forget it.

The ones that have earned the education the most should get that education. Not every single person has to have a university degree. It would be a better thing to teach kids that to succeed one must work hard and study to get a scholarship. Why is it supposed to be taught that every person except whites need the extra advantage and preferences? That is suggesting they are inferior people. They are not inferior people. No one is.

How can you earn that education if you're never given the opportunity? If you attend, from Kindergarten, a school where there aren't enough textbooks, so you don't get to properly learn the lessons from this year, how do you build on what you haven't learned, next year? You might be just as intelligent as the child who goes to a top of the line school two cities over. You might be just as driven to learn, in the beginning at least. But if no one teaches you, your drive will be quashed and it's over before you even get a chance.

Children shouldn't have to fight for a basic education. And yet that's what they'd have to do to 'earn' education if you take away any initiatives meant to level the playing field. If you're fighting to stay alive, working two part time jobs to keep food on your table and suffering PTSD (see the thread on PTSD in inner city children), how can you 'earn' an education? Sorry, I don't buy it.

How dramatic.. and utter BS

How so? I offered up links to back up my statements. How is it BS?

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

Truck driving is a great example. From what I understand companies are screaming for Truck drivers. Yet blacks scream they can't get a job

You have to be able to afford a driver's license and a car and have a certain amount of time that you've had a clean driving abstract and, in most cases, a lack of criminal record to get hired as a truck driver. You also must be physically able enough to handle the physical pressures of trucking which actually it's a physically and mentally hard job. You also have to be able to spend days or weeks away from your family. So you advocate absentee parents? I'm a trucker's granddaughter--he couldn't fulfill his dream of traveling the continent until the children were all grown.

[Karee 4,191]

How can you earn that education if you're never given the opportunity? If you attend, from Kindergarten, a school where there aren't enough textbooks, so you don't get to properly learn the lessons from this year, how do you build on what you haven't learned, next year? You might be just as intelligent as the child who goes to a top of the line school two cities over. You might be just as driven to learn, in the beginning at least. But if no one teaches you, your drive will be quashed and it's over before you even get a chance.

That's what happens when people vote for school board members (and others that make local education decisions) based on race. I had a front row seat to the downfall of the Detroit Public School system. They were so busy trying to get every dollar they could from the federal government and make sure that classes were racially diverse via a busing program, they forgot that the whole point was to educate children. The city was run by an openly racist black mayor for 20 years. Now look at the place.

That's the problem with a lot of these racial discussions. As soon as race is brought into a discussion that really has nothing to do with race (See George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin), common sense goes out the window.

[Karee 4,191]

You have to be able to afford a driver's license and a car and have a certain amount of time that you've had a clean driving abstract and, in most cases, a lack of criminal record to get hired as a truck driver.

Maybe quit getting tickets and don't break the law? People pay for their past transgressions all the time. Trust me I know. See my post above.

[lostinblue 1,989]

Maybe quit getting tickets and don't break the law? People pay for their past transgressions all the time. Trust me I know. See my post above.

IF a person has any kind of health issue, the Trucking companies won't hire them because they are deemed to be potential liability... any kind of police record..... good luck. Just a speeding ticket .... They blow you off. How about that drug test. A little weed won't hurt right.

[eieio 1,594]

That's the problem with a lot of these racial discussions. As soon as race is brought into a discussion that really has nothing to do with race (See George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin), common sense goes out the window.

Exactly. Emotions trumps facts.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

That is BS , and we have proven it many times. Some activist did some absurd study etc etc

http://occupywallst.org/forum/in-mike-bloombergs-nyc-white-felons-have-a-better-/

As just one example, the following case records this team’s experience applying for a position at a local auto dealership. Joe, the black tester, applied first and was informed at the outset that the only available positions were for those with direct auto sales experience.

When Josue, his Latino partner, applied, the lack of direct auto sales experience was less of a problem. Josue reports: “He asked me if I had any customer service experience and I said not really…. He then told me that 7 he wanted to get rid of a few bad apples who were not performing well. He asked me when I could start….” Josue was told to wait for a call back on Monday.

Keith, their white ex-felon test partner, was first given a stern lecture regarding his criminal background. “I have no problem with your conviction, it doesn’t bother me. But if I find out money is missing or you’re not clean or not showing up on time I have no problem ending the relationship.” Despite the employer’s concerns, and despite Keith having no more sales experience than his test partners, Keith was offered the job on the spot. This example illustrates the ways in which race can trump even known criminality in certain cases. Indeed, far from racial considerations in employment being a thing of the past, we see that they are alive and well and actively shaping the opportunities available to members of different racial/ethnic group.

It's not a made up problem. Or, are we going to keep disproving anything that shows the bias.

That's what happens when people vote for school board members (and others that make local education decisions) based on race. I had a front row seat to the downfall of the Detroit Public School system. They were so busy trying to get every dollar they could from the federal government and make sure that classes were racially diverse via a busing program, they forgot that the whole point was to educate children. The city was run by an openly racist black mayor for 20 years. Now look at the place.

That's the problem with a lot of these racial discussions. As soon as race is brought into a discussion that really has nothing to do with race (See George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin), common sense goes out the window.

So, because of this black politicians aren't capable to run the program?

And that's not the problem with race. The problem is, no one wants to talk about it when it's them under the hot lamp. Take GZ/TM. 90% of black americans think it's about race. We're talking a few million people. But that can't be right. Because 2 famous black folks said it wasn't. Larry Elder and Charles Barkley. So, not it can't be about race. It's about race because no where in this country do white kids get profiled. White teens are handled differently, that's a fact. Just like I pointed out about that kid who, in the police station, assaulted a police officer, got taken down by like 9 cops, got a hold of a gun and actually got a shot off, and yet, he still lives. There are quite a few black people that have been riddled with bullets for way less, and weren't even armed.

It's ok to talk about black people who commit crime or do drugs, because it justifies the way we're treated. I've been told here that I have to accept responsibility for that. So, why isn't it this way when white people do the same thing?

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

Maybe quit getting tickets and don't break the law? People pay for their past transgressions all the time. Trust me I know. See my post above.

And yet a black person is far more likely to be imprisoned while innocent than a white person. A very poor black person living in the inner city is very unlikely to have a car--meaning they don't have a license at all.

And that still doesn't address the issue where you're telling us that people of colour don't deserve to be allowed to grow up in homes where both parents are regularly present, because truckers are wanted and black people should just take those jobs.

[Leatherneck 693]

Marvin, I have a question for you; what in your opinion is the solution to black Americans as a whole improving the current economic and dismal education (k-12) conditions?

I think a dramatic 180 degree reversal of the two aforementioned issues along with an increase in a shifting mindset toward the importance of entrepreneurship would help improve the overall unfavorable perception that other groups have of black Americans.

First, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton must to be bound, gagged, and placed in a basement.

[Karee 4,191]

And yet a black person is far more likely to be imprisoned while innocent than a white person.

That's all about money. Has little to do with race IMO. Money = good legal representation. That's problem with the legal system, not some sort of racism.

And that still doesn't address the issue where you're telling us that people of colour don't deserve to be allowed to grow up in homes where both parents are regularly present, because truckers are wanted and black people should just take those jobs.

Please point out where I said the above. You must be confusing me with someone else. The only people preventing children growing up in a two parent household are the parents themselves. You can't blame bad personal decisions on racism. That's the problem with folks like you. You want to fix people's problems for them, when the reality is that people need to fix their own issues. The govt. has been trying to "fix" the native American issue for years and years by simply giving them handouts. Look where that's gotten them. Nowhere.

First, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton must to be bound, gagged, and placed in a basement.

That's a start.

[Karee 4,191]

So, because of this black politicians aren't capable to run the program?

And that's not the problem with race. The problem is, no one wants to talk about it when it's them under the hot lamp. Take GZ/TM. 90% of black americans think it's about race. We're talking a few million people. But that can't be right. Because 2 famous black folks said it wasn't. Larry Elder and Charles Barkley. So, not it can't be about race. It's about race because no where in this country do white kids get profiled. White teens are handled differently, that's a fact. Just like I pointed out about that kid who, in the police station, assaulted a police officer, got taken down by like 9 cops, got a hold of a gun and actually got a shot off, and yet, he still lives. There are quite a few black people that have been riddled with bullets for way less, and weren't even armed.

It's ok to talk about black people who commit crime or do drugs, because it justifies the way we're treated. I've been told here that I have to accept responsibility for that. So, why isn't it this way when white people do the same thing?

I'm sure black people are capable of running a school district. However, they did a pi$$ poor job running the Detroit School System. It's pretty easy when you can blame all your failures on the racist boogeyman, which the Mayor and school board did for years and years. In fact the mayor got caught in at least 5 corruption scandals that I can remember. One of them having something to do with getting kickbacks for the school lunches or the milk provided for those lunches. He simply started screaming "Racism!!" and the investigation quietly went away, just as it did for the trash hauling and the others.

There was zero proof that TM/GZ thing was about race. No matter how loud Al and Jesse screamed, or how hard network TV tried to doctor the 911 tapes to make it seem like he used a racial slur, it never came down to race at all. Hell even black friends of the guy got up on the stand and said the guy wasn't racist. It just so happened that he was white, and the criminal that attacked him was black. As far as I could tell, that was the only racial component to the incident. And you can bet your a$$ that every rock was turned over trying to find something racist in ol George's past. Turns out he's just a dumbass wanna be cop. Nothing racist about that. Deluded yes, but not racist.

Whoever told you you're responsible for other people's crimes, take it up with them.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Marvin, I have a question for you; what in your opinion is the solution to black Americans as a whole improving the current economic and dismal education (k-12) conditions?

I think a dramatic 180 degree reversal of the two aforementioned issues along with an increase in a shifting mindset toward the importance of entrepreneurship would help improve the overall unfavorable perception that other groups have of black Americans.

First, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton must to be bound, gagged, and placed in a basement.

Well, that's a very complicated question.

Your second paragraph is key, but also, white america needs to change as well. Here's why I say this:

The problem here is, the definition of racism has changed. If it's not the extreme form of it(dog, slavery, KKK) then it's not racism. People don't see the institutionalized version of it. If one person makes it through, it's good enough for you. Then it can't be racist. The net is all encompassing, or it's not racism. This is why with the TM/GZ case, you have millions of black folks saying it's about race. But who gets the microphone? The black guy who says it isn't.

Al and Jesse aren't the problem. They shine the light on the blights no one wants to admit is there. When black kids can go shopping and not get arrested, when wearing a hoodie stops being a death sentence, when being named Jamal isn't considered a negative thing, then they will go away.

[Karee 4,191]

But who gets the microphone? The black guy who says it isn't.

Wow. You are in serious denial. You must have missed the 1000s of hours of coverage of black people saying it was about race. The black guys who said it wasn't about race were shouted down and made to look like fools by the likes of Piers Morgan and his ilk.