The Kyiv Beat......

[LvivLovers 39]

Just FYI, I bought my tickets directly through NWA but they used their partner KLM. It seemed that I got about the same price as going through Orbitz...Orbitz didn't offer the ability to buy a ticket originating from Ukraine...that's why I went through NWA directly. My roundtrip ticket was about $800. For her ticket 1-way from Kyiv, they wanted $2,500. I asked if I could just get her a roundtrip ticket like mine but just not use the first half. They said no...they would cancel if she didn't show up on the way over. So finally I told them to make a roundtrip ticket starting in Ukraine and then returning later on in the year even though she probably won't use it. That dropped the price down to about $800. Ah...the silly games airlines play. My guess is you can probably get even cheaper tickets...I was too busy working on other things to shop around more. Hope this helps someone.

Oh one more thing. Anyone know a cheap way to ship things to the USA from Ukraine? My wife is an avid reader and doesn't want to leave her books behind! hahaha She's got 100-200 kilograms worth which could get expensive transporting as luggage. She thinks she may have a company that will do it for about $3/kg but am just curious to see if anyone knows a cheaper way. Thanks!

We have the same problem---my wife wants her stuff from Odessa also. There is a company called Meest---but if I remember correctly, the prices they quote on shipping by sea are from the docks in Odessa to their terminal in Jersey--you are responsible for getting it delivered down here. Have you really looked at paying the "extra baggage" fee from the airlines? Or you could possibly find someone else visiting Lviv to act as your mule. Right now our plan is: on her next visit back to Odessa (probably in April) I am going to accompany her also, and we will pack the maximum allowed in the luggage to bring back here.

We're planning to take 2 big suitcases each which we are allowed for free. I have also reserved 4 extra bags, but no one can tell me exactly how much it will cost. I made my tickets through NWA, but they are ticketed on their partner KLM, and the first flight is operated by UIA. I've called each airline more than once to see whose luggage rules will apply and get a different answer each time. It looks like it could be as much as 200 euros for each extra bag which seems excessive to me. That's why we are thinking we may just ship most of her things as extra cargo.

[payxibka 10,047]

We're planning to take 2 big suitcases each which we are allowed for free. I have also reserved 4 extra bags, but no one can tell me exactly how much it will cost. I made my tickets through NWA, but they are ticketed on their partner KLM, and the first flight is operated by UIA. I've called each airline more than once to see whose luggage rules will apply and get a different answer each time. It looks like it could be as much as 200 euros for each extra bag which seems excessive to me. That's why we are thinking we may just ship most of her things as extra cargo.

Remember the free allowance is two bags @ 23 kg (50 lbs) each... maximum weigh for the bag cannot exceeed 32 kg (70 lbs) but you will potentially be subject to an overweight charge. I did exactly as you are planning and believe me it doesn't take long to get to the weight restriction before you are out of space in the big bags (or if you have books).

[LvivLovers 39]

We're planning to take 2 big suitcases each which we are allowed for free. I have also reserved 4 extra bags, but no one can tell me exactly how much it will cost. I made my tickets through NWA, but they are ticketed on their partner KLM, and the first flight is operated by UIA. I've called each airline more than once to see whose luggage rules will apply and get a different answer each time. It looks like it could be as much as 200 euros for each extra bag which seems excessive to me. That's why we are thinking we may just ship most of her things as extra cargo.

Remember the free allowance is two bags @ 23 kg (50 lbs) each... maximum weigh for the bag cannot exceeed 32 kg (70 lbs) but you will potentially be subject to an overweight charge. I did exactly as you are planning and believe me it doesn't take long to get to the weight restriction before you are out of space in the big bags (or if you have books).

Yep. The extra bags can each be 32 kg also...that's included in the extra bag fee, but you're right. It won't take much to hit that limit.

[Zadan 1]

I tried to make everything as fool-proof as possible and easy. She has never flown before, let alone on a 10hr international flight, been through customs or changed planes etc. So she's going direct to JFK and I'll meet here there. (My original plan was for me to go to Kiev first and accompany her back, but the powers that be thought it would be a waste of money. )

I found that AeroSvit has direct flights from Kiev->JFK several times a week (schedules are listed on their website). Added +10 business days from her interview date, and then found the next direct flight (Oct 19th, 8 days to go!!). She checked the local office prices for a ticket and it was something over $600. If you book online via their website (www.aerosvit.com) it's cheaper ($475) so I did that. Then I got a one-way ticket for her departing from JFK back home for another $220.

Additionally, via orbitz I added trip/ticket insurance for my RT ticket and her one-way from JFK. I believe it was an extra $20-30 or so. Before her interview, I figured the worst case scenario was that I'd have to call and get the flights rescheduled (less a fee, or insurance cost). I've had to change times on AeroSvit tickets before and never had any problem, it was only a matter of going to an AeroSvit rep, and the cost to do so was quite small.

Now, as long as she doesn't get sick before she has to get on the plane, or comes down with ExpensiveProcedureItus once here before we get married. Which brings me to another question: Anyone ever looked into getting temporary health insurance for your fiancee in the interim before you're married and she can be added to your health plan?

[etripke 0]

Any of you that have wives or fiancees who owned their own property (apartment) in Ukraine please post I have a question regarding procedures over there. The issue involves the "Internal" passport (Propiska?) needing to be "stamped" so the departing resident can transfer utilities and water to a family member occupant on departure.

Thanks

[payxibka 10,047]

Any of you that have wives or fiancees who owned their own property (apartment) in Ukraine please post I have a question regarding procedures over there. The issue involves the "Internal" passport (Propiska?) needing to be "stamped" so the departing resident can transfer utilities and water to a family member occupant on departure.

Thanks

Yeah,

We have not done that or at least didn't do that, Sveta has been speaking about this but it sounds like a beaureaucratic nightmare... Momma just went to Kherson to pay the "bills".... E, I want you to lead me on this one.... OK?

Edited October 12, 2007 by fwaguy

[bcartr 0]

Any of you that have wives or fiancees who owned their own property (apartment) in Ukraine please post I have a question regarding procedures over there. The issue involves the "Internal" passport (Propiska?) needing to be "stamped" so the departing resident can transfer utilities and water to a family member occupant on departure.

Thanks

Yeah,

We have not done that or at least didn't do that, Sveta has been speaking about this but it sounds like a beaureaucratic nightmare... Momma just went to Kherson to pay the "bills".... E, I want you to lead me on this one.... OK?

Yeah Anya did not do much either, her sister's family moved in so they are paying the utilities.

As far as Anya is concerned everything is still in her name.

T

[etripke 0]

Any of you that have wives or fiancees who owned their own property (apartment) in Ukraine please post I have a question regarding procedures over there. The issue involves the "Internal" passport (Propiska?) needing to be "stamped" so the departing resident can transfer utilities and water to a family member occupant on departure.

Thanks

Yeah,

We have not done that or at least didn't do that, Sveta has been speaking about this but it sounds like a beaureaucratic nightmare... Momma just went to Kherson to pay the "bills".... E, I want you to lead me on this one.... OK?

Well according to Lena she went to do this today, and was turned back after waiting in line for 2 hours. Her brother is taking over her place, and what I didn't understand is that they are billed by the number of people living in the apartment and the square meter size. She was told she had to go to where they do the residence registration for the internal "passport" and will have to get it stamped there indicating she is or has moved to the states. Her brother can then be listed for the billing on the other stuff. We are talking about sending them "proof" she is not living there after the fact like with a copy of our lease, etc, and the I-94 and hope they'll just do it. It can be done before her departure, it will just take hours of standing in line at two different places.

The old Soviet never dies I guess.

[payxibka 10,047]

Any of you that have wives or fiancees who owned their own property (apartment) in Ukraine please post I have a question regarding procedures over there. The issue involves the "Internal" passport (Propiska?) needing to be "stamped" so the departing resident can transfer utilities and water to a family member occupant on departure.

Thanks

Yeah,

We have not done that or at least didn't do that, Sveta has been speaking about this but it sounds like a beaureaucratic nightmare... Momma just went to Kherson to pay the "bills".... E, I want you to lead me on this one.... OK?

Well according to Lena she went to do this today, and was turned back after waiting in line for 2 hours. Her brother is taking over her place, and what I didn't understand is that they are billed by the number of people living in the apartment and the square meter size. She was told she had to go to where they do the residence registration for the internal "passport" and will have to get it stamped there indicating she is or has moved to the states. Her brother can then be listed for the billing on the other stuff. We are talking about sending them "proof" she is not living there after the fact like with a copy of our lease, etc, and the I-94 and hope they'll just do it. It can be done before her departure, it will just take hours of standing in line at two different places.

The old Soviet never dies I guess.

I know, we are paying for utilities for a household of two even though everything is shut off...

[etripke 0]

Any of you that have wives or fiancees who owned their own property (apartment) in Ukraine please post I have a question regarding procedures over there. The issue involves the "Internal" passport (Propiska?) needing to be "stamped" so the departing resident can transfer utilities and water to a family member occupant on departure.

Thanks

Yeah,

We have not done that or at least didn't do that, Sveta has been speaking about this but it sounds like a beaureaucratic nightmare... Momma just went to Kherson to pay the "bills".... E, I want you to lead me on this one.... OK?

Well according to Lena she went to do this today, and was turned back after waiting in line for 2 hours. Her brother is taking over her place, and what I didn't understand is that they are billed by the number of people living in the apartment and the square meter size. She was told she had to go to where they do the residence registration for the internal "passport" and will have to get it stamped there indicating she is or has moved to the states. Her brother can then be listed for the billing on the other stuff. We are talking about sending them "proof" she is not living there after the fact like with a copy of our lease, etc, and the I-94 and hope they'll just do it. It can be done before her departure, it will just take hours of standing in line at two different places.

The old Soviet never dies I guess.

I know, we are paying for utilities for a household of two even though everything is shut off...

That blows. Maybe sending over copies of anything here here that has her name on it, marriage license, and so forth would be enough, you never know. I hate to have Lena go through this BS especially those lines to register are HUGE for the "propiska" (SIC). She waited for over 6 hours the last time she needed something done.

[etripke 0]

Here is some more information on the "Exit Visa" as it is called by Ukrainian Authorities. This is from RU Adventures LINK: http://ruadventures.com/index.php?topic=16...0;boardseen#new

Quote from a user:

As I noted it is an "Ukranian Exit Visa" it is the Ukraine's requirement for all nationals planning to live outside of Ukraine. Your spouse can and will be questioned when she later returns and then attempts to leave Ukraine to travel back to your country without one.

A long time ago on RWG Doug Salem wrote about how his wife Olga was stopped on 3 visits to Ukraine when she attempted to leave and return to the USA because she did not have the Exit Visa stamp in her Ukraine International Passport! Finally Olga's mother contacted a local official and arranged for her daughter to obtain one with the usual appropriate gifts, etc.

For us it took longer going through normal channels to obtain the Exit Visa than to obtain the Canadian Visa for Lora.

There is however one downside you need to consider it this as well. Your spouse will have to sign off on all existing property rights in Ukraine. That is give up ownership of her flat or house if she has one. Simple to sign over ownership to a relative as this takes care of the problem. Thus not everyone from Ukraine applies for an Exist visa as like I noted it means they loose their local passport and give up their Ukraine property rights. So a lot for you to think about with your Ukranian spouse!

After moving to your country your Ukranian spouse will need to register with the local Ukraine Embassy or Consulate as a Ukranian living abroad in your country.

From the US DOS:

Also, Ukrainians who have immigrated to the U.S. without obtaining the proper exit visa from Ukrainian authorities may be subject to civil or criminal penalties, and will be required to obtain an exit visa before returning to the U.S. For additional information, see the Consular Affairs web site for our Dual Nationality flyer

.

So, it appears that she will have to more or less give her place up to her Brother and lose all rights to the property. The catch from what I read is that this is for "Immigrant" status in the USA. If they are coming over here on Non-Immigrant status (with immigrant intent) does this still apply? I would imagine that once the AOS is completed THEN it is an issue, but not before. Anyone want to chime in on that?

[LvivLovers 39]

On Ukrainian exit visas: In that same post mentioned above, I found:

All Ukrainian passports allow the holder to re-enter Ukraine. Until January 1, 1993, separate Ukrainian exit visas were required for travel abroad. All external passports should, by now, be either re-issued or re-registered at VVIR offices or at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Regular passports are valid for five years and those still produced on Soviet passport stock are overstamped with an amendment authorizing the bearer to travel to any country of the world, thus eliminating the exit visa requirement. Persons emigrating from Ukraine normally retain their Ukrainian citizenship.

Effective January 1, 1998, all Ukrainian passports with Soviet Union symbols and red covers (all series and numbers) and official passports with dark blue covers (series “CM”, “KC”, “01” and “02”) will no longer be valid for travel abroad.

Reciprocity Schedule - Updated 6th April 2007,

and more: An exit visa is not necessary for departing the country, but for departure to take place it must be valid.

I think that clears things up.

So it looks like we don't need to worry about exit visas at all if I am reading this right and it's correct.

[Mariya 0]

Should either I-864 or I-864EZ be notorized or just signed by the petitioner?

And what is 1099 from requested in I-864EZ? where can we get it from?

[etripke 0]

On Ukrainian exit visas: In that same post mentioned above, I found:

All Ukrainian passports allow the holder to re-enter Ukraine. Until January 1, 1993, separate Ukrainian exit visas were required for travel abroad. All external passports should, by now, be either re-issued or re-registered at VVIR offices or at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Regular passports are valid for five years and those still produced on Soviet passport stock are overstamped with an amendment authorizing the bearer to travel to any country of the world, thus eliminating the exit visa requirement. Persons emigrating from Ukraine normally retain their Ukrainian citizenship.

Effective January 1, 1998, all Ukrainian passports with Soviet Union symbols and red covers (all series and numbers) and official passports with dark blue covers (series “CM”, “KC”, “01” and “02”) will no longer be valid for travel abroad.

Reciprocity Schedule - Updated 6th April 2007,

and more: An exit visa is not necessary for departing the country, but for departure to take place it must be valid.

I think that clears things up.

I read that post also, and asked for his reference on it. I received a rather smart response, but in any case we have decided not to worry about it for now.

So it looks like we don't need to worry about exit visas at all if I am reading this right and it's correct.

[LvivLovers 39]

On Ukrainian exit visas: In that same post mentioned above, I found:

All Ukrainian passports allow the holder to re-enter Ukraine. Until January 1, 1993, separate Ukrainian exit visas were required for travel abroad. All external passports should, by now, be either re-issued or re-registered at VVIR offices or at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Regular passports are valid for five years and those still produced on Soviet passport stock are overstamped with an amendment authorizing the bearer to travel to any country of the world, thus eliminating the exit visa requirement. Persons emigrating from Ukraine normally retain their Ukrainian citizenship.

Effective January 1, 1998, all Ukrainian passports with Soviet Union symbols and red covers (all series and numbers) and official passports with dark blue covers (series “CM”, “KC”, “01” and “02”) will no longer be valid for travel abroad.

Reciprocity Schedule - Updated 6th April 2007,

and more: An exit visa is not necessary for departing the country, but for departure to take place it must be valid.

I think that clears things up.

I read that post also, and asked for his reference on it. I received a rather smart response, but in any case we have decided not to worry about it for now.

So it looks like we don't need to worry about exit visas at all if I am reading this right and it's correct.

Wow....that was a rather rude response from that one person. I'm still not 100% sure what the rules are on exit visas. It seems like there is some contradictory information. As one person quoted, from the Department of State travel website http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/reciproc...ocity_3697.html it says:

All Ukrainian passports allow the holder to re-enter Ukraine. Until January 1, 1993, separate Ukrainian exit visas were required for travel abroad. All external passports should, by now, be either re-issued or re-registered at VVIR offices or at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Regular passports are valid for five years and those still produced on Soviet passport stock are overstamped with an amendment authorizing the bearer to travel to any country of the world, thus eliminating the exit visa requirement. Persons emigrating from Ukraine normally retain their Ukrainian citizenship.

So this makes it sound like exit visas haven't been needed since Jan. 1, 1993.

However, I also came across http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1053.html which says:

Ukraine does not recognize dual nationality. American citizens entering Ukraine with a Ukrainian passport will be treated as Ukrainian citizens by the local authorities. This may include being required to perform mandatory military service. Also, Ukrainians who have immigrated to the U.S. without obtaining the proper exit visa from Ukrainian authorities may be subject to civil or criminal penalties, and will be required to obtain an exit visa before returning to the U.S.

So this makes it sound like the exit visa IS required if a Ukrainian actually immigrates to the USA. So I can't tell if the 1st information that I quoted was only talking about visiting and not immigrating, or it may be the case that the 2nd information that I quoted is just out of date or incorrect. So basically...I still don't know. But like others, I'm not going to deal with this right now. If it is required, I would assume that technically my wife is still just visiting until she is granted her permanent residency here in the USA.

If anyone else finds out the definitive answer on this, please share!