Family Based F2A PD Retrogressed to May 1, 2012, how is that?

[mommy bea 0]

When we are just waiting for our interview appointment/letter, expecting it sometime may or june, and this happened?! How come US State announced and allowed to file for petition with the promise that it is going to be processed as if it were a US citizen that filed it? This was announced in June 2013 and we filed asap and yet our case is not yet completed and now would have to wait again for what a year or so?

PD: June 30 2013

CC: Apr 25 2014

[Boiler 46,147]

Odd, if that had been the case I would have thought it would have been mentioned.

[vkrishn 97]

Though i feel bad with the retrogression and it does not make any sense to keep spouses of LPR's separated based on VB(Seriously does not make any damn sense), until the demand data comes out there is no way to know how they retrogressed it to 2012. There seems to be no accountability of how they play around with visa numbers (else they would have released the demand data for family categories up to May 2014) and honestly no one (except people who are impacted) cares.

On top of this, DOS gave 10000 visas to EB categories from FB categories when every freaking family category is retrogressed. How? No one knows. What did AILA do? Nothing.

I have visited many politicians(Senators, congressman/woman) and have talked about this issue with their staff and honestly most of them don't give a hoot about F2A problem faced by spouse of LPR's. If you talk to Democrats they are interested only about illegals and if you talk to republicans they are interested about H-1B.

[sbai2000 31]

When we are just waiting for our interview appointment/letter, expecting it sometime may or june, and this happened?! How come US State announced and allowed to file for petition with the promise that it is going to be processed as if it were a US citizen that filed it? This was announced in June 2013 and we filed asap and yet our case is not yet completed and now would have to wait again for what a year or so?

PD: June 30 2013

CC: Apr 25 2014

I feel your pain.....that's the stupidity of the US immigration system. Remain hopeful.....everyone is saying that in October, with the new fiscal year, it should move forward to a 2013 date.

The manipulation of the F2A category in the summer of 2013 was the most deceptive and dishonest thing that was done.....and, as it has been noted, no-one cares about LPRs...

[cp9 0]

I feel your pain.....that's the stupidity of the US immigration system. Remain hopeful.....everyone is saying that in October, with the new fiscal year, it should move forward to a 2013 date.

The manipulation of the F2A category in the summer of 2013 was the most deceptive and dishonest thing that was done.....and, as it has been noted, no-one cares about LPRs...

I completely agree with you. Just praying that the VB moves forward to 2013 in October.

[jan22 3,064]

Though i feel bad with the retrogression and it does not make any sense to keep spouses of LPR's separated based on VB(Seriously does not make any damn sense), until the demand data comes out there is no way to know how they retrogressed it to 2012. There seems to be no accountability of how they play around with visa numbers (else they would have released the demand data for family categories up to May 2014) and honestly no one (except people who are impacted) cares.

On top of this, DOS gave 10000 visas to EB categories from FB categories when every freaking family category is retrogressed. How? No one knows. What did AILA do? Nothing.

I have visited many politicians(Senators, congressman/woman) and have talked about this issue with their staff and honestly most of them don't give a hoot about F2A problem faced by spouse of LPR's. If you talk to Democrats they are interested only about illegals and if you talk to republicans they are interested about H-1B.

Actually, these two things (highlighted in red above) are unrelated under the current U.S. immigration system. And, there is accountability on visa numbers -- people do know why the number was regressed, and there was nothing that AILA could have possibly done, since all that was done was an appropriate application of US immigration law. Whether we approve of it or not, there is a system that Congress established, that puts yearly numerical limits on the visas available to the family members of LPRs; in addition, there is a requirement that no country can take up more than 7% of that annual numerical limit (which is why there are different dates, in many categories, for Indian, Mexican, and Philippine nationals).

If the number is not used in any year (rarely happens, to my knowledge), the number moves into the next category (i.e., if all the F1s are not used, they become numbers available to F2s). That's why there was an attempt to encourage filers in the F2A category in 2013 -- there was a possibility that all of the numbers would not be used; the new filers ensured that did not happen so as many F2As as possible under the numerical limits could be issued. Unfortunately, that resulted in more people filing than numbers were available -- but, at least you now have an application in the pipeline, when you didn't before (trying to find the bright spot), so you're closer than you were!

The EB categories are a separate allocation of numbers -- they never revert to Family-based Preference categories (F1, 2A, 2B, etc.), so the issuance of those had nothing to do with the F categories and the Congressional limits placed on them. Out of all of the immigrant visas issued, relatively few are available in the employment based categories; even if they weren't issued, no extra visas would be available in the F categories.

The beginning of the Visa Bulletin actually has an explanation as to how the Priority Dates are calculated, if you're interested to see the process.

Sorry if this comes off as a lecture -- but thought perhaps newer members of the forum might benefit in knowing that there actually is a fairly robust system for how numbers are allocated and priority dates are set, to help de-mystify the process. As I indicated earlier -- it doesn't mean we have to agree with the system, but until Congrss changes it, it's what we have to work within.

[Boiler 46,147]

To state the obvious US has a family focussed system at the expense of work or investment.

[COLOSSUS 7]

Actually, on my checks too i discovered its a fair system. i am in your shoes too and feel what you feel but its an established system and not designed to be biased against F2As.

HANG IN THERE!!!

[vkrishn 97]

Actually, these two things (highlighted in red above) are unrelated under the current U.S. immigration system. And, there is accountability on visa numbers -- people do know why the number was regressed, and there was nothing that AILA could have possibly done, since all that was done was an appropriate application of US immigration law. Whether we approve of it or not, there is a system that Congress established, that puts yearly numerical limits on the visas available to the family members of LPRs; in addition, there is a requirement that no country can take up more than 7% of that annual numerical limit (which is why there are different dates, in many categories, for Indian, Mexican, and Philippine nationals).

If the number is not used in any year (rarely happens, to my knowledge), the number moves into the next category (i.e., if all the F1s are not used, they become numbers available to F2s). That's why there was an attempt to encourage filers in the F2A category in 2013 -- there was a possibility that all of the numbers would not be used; the new filers ensured that did not happen so as many F2As as possible under the numerical limits could be issued. Unfortunately, that resulted in more people filing than numbers were available -- but, at least you now have an application in the pipeline, when you didn't before (trying to find the bright spot), so you're closer than you were!

The EB categories are a separate allocation of numbers -- they never revert to Family-based Preference categories (F1, 2A, 2B, etc.), so the issuance of those had nothing to do with the F categories and the Congressional limits placed on them. Out of all of the immigrant visas issued, relatively few are available in the employment based categories; even if they weren't issued, no extra visas would be available in the F categories.

The beginning of the Visa Bulletin actually has an explanation as to how the Priority Dates are calculated, if you're interested to see the process.

Sorry if this comes off as a lecture -- but thought perhaps newer members of the forum might benefit in knowing that there actually is a fairly robust system for how numbers are allocated and priority dates are set, to help de-mystify the process. As I indicated earlier -- it doesn't mean we have to agree with the system, but until Congrss changes it, it's what we have to work within.

You did not follow my point. I know the 7% rule about calculating the VISA numbers. When i mentioned accountability i meant releasing the Demand data to show the number of pending cases for family based. Has DOS released it? Do you know why the PD is May 2012 now based on quantitative data? Care to explain how 10000 visas where given to EB category from F category? When did congress come in to the picture about releasing Demand Data numbers? What AILA could have done is ask for Demand data, probe questions to DOS to request for one.

[vkrishn 97]

Link to math on why EB got 10K from FB. Talk about accountability! AILA went mum on this? They could have asked about this on the spillover! This has nothing to do with Congress and the system. Its how transparent can DOS be and provide the data needed. Why didn't AILA ask for Demand data for FB? They seem to be putting pressure on DOS for EB and thanks to them it did provide some relief for EB categories in the July 2007 fiasco (I was part of that too).

http://blog.mygcvisa.com/2013/11/eb-category-to-receive-10000-additional.html

Edited May 16, 2014 by vkrishn

[sbai2000 31]

@jan22 - I agree with Vikrishn.....when I read your very detailed post, I too felt you had missed the point. What you described, very well, was the allocation of visa numbers....this thread/discussion is beyond that! I believe what we are discussing now is the manipulation of visa numbers.

people rushed and filed concurrently with great expectations in the summer of 2013 because the PD was current. Why was it current? because we were told there was low demand. Yet here we are in 2014, and they have retrogressed the category back more than 1 year because they are still trying to issue visa to the 2011 and 2012 filers. it doesn't make any sense....

....and added to that that 10K "unused" F2A visas were given to the EB category.????!!

to me this is all politics....

the EB categories have powerful lobbyist.....I wouldn't be surprised if those 10k visas were literally handed over to EB....with the powers-that-be knowing full well that there were a ton of pending F2A applications in the pipeline.

the USC have their voting powers...that's why we have the K-1 category. Sorry but the "promise" of marriage should not have priority over established marriages/families.....even if those families are LPRs....but I digress...

back to the FB categories - and specifically the F2A - I too wish there were more transparency so that families like mine can make an informed decision as to whether to file F2A or make other plans.

right now the carrot just dangles.

[sbai2000 31]

Actually, on my checks too i discovered its a fair system. i am in your shoes too and feel what you feel but its an established system and not designed to be biased against F2As.

HANG IN THERE!!!

really???!!!

of course it's biased...why else would we have visa limits!!! Because something is established, that does not necessarily make it fair.

[jan22 3,064]

@jan22 - I agree with Vikrishn.....when I read your very detailed post, I too felt you had missed the point. What you described, very well, was the allocation of visa numbers....this thread/discussion is beyond that! I believe what we are discussing now is the manipulation of visa numbers.

people rushed and filed concurrently with great expectations in the summer of 2013 because the PD was current. Why was it current? because we were told there was low demand. Yet here we are in 2014, and they have retrogressed the category back more than 1 year because they are still trying to issue visa to the 2011 and 2012 filers. it doesn't make any sense....

....and added to that that 10K "unused" F2A visas were given to the EB category.????!!

to me this is all politics....

the EB categories have powerful lobbyist.....I wouldn't be surprised if those 10k visas were literally handed over to EB....with the powers-that-be knowing full well that there were a ton of pending F2A applications in the pipeline.

the USC have their voting powers...that's why we have the K-1 category. Sorry but the "promise" of marriage should not have priority over established marriages/families.....even if those families are LPRs....but I digress...

back to the FB categories - and specifically the F2A - I too wish there were more transparency so that families like mine can make an informed decision as to whether to file F2A or make other plans.

right now the carrot just dangles.

I didn't miss the point -- sorry to all of you who would like to believe that. Part of what I was trying to do was help those less experienced with the whole process to see that there was an complex -- albeit imperfect -- system. I, personally, really find it impossible to believe that there is some great big government conspiracy -- which is what it would take -- to manipulate immigrant visa numbers. There are just WAY too many ways to do it and keep it more discrete than manipulating the numbers!

For example, in the F to EB category -- no great deep dark conspiracy, since IT'S THE LAW. We may not like it, agree with it, support it, or anything else -- but it is the law that Congress passed. When there are unused numbers in the F categories (which rarely happens, which is why it perhaps caused so much consternation when it did/does), BY LAW they pass to the EB category. There are all kinds of reasons why, over the course of the fiscal year, that 10,000 F's were not issued visas -- failure to qualify, administrative processing, failure to submit required documentation, delays in the medical either through disease that needed treatment, etc., etc., etc. These people had already taken up one of the available visa number -- but at the end of the FY, it became clear they would not be issued. So, BY LAW passed by Congress, those numbers went to the EB category. It is a rare occurrence -- but even if they hadn't, they could not have been available to another F applicant, as there was not time to process. Nor could they be moved forward into the new FY to be used then -- that would exceed the Congressional-established numerical limit. (The EB category has some limited flexibility in numbers -- there's a minimum and maximum, so they could receive the numbers). Would it be better to just pull the plug early on someone who's had their interview and is trying to meet all the requirements and tell them, "We don't think you're going to make it in time, so we're going to give your visa number to someone who might?" We'd all be furious at that, too.

Visa numbers are allocated based on those who have been reported documentarily qualified -- not all of those in the pipeline. IF all in the pipeline were considered, I think all numbers would seriously retrogress. There are huge numbers of people who have filed but are no where near ready to submit final paperwork.

Sorry if this comes off as a rant -- I know this is a very personal, emotional process, but I sometimes think it causes a bit of paranoia to develop. Just MHO.

Edited May 18, 2014 by jan22

[bigdog 376]

Jan22, I think you are correct, the system can not handle all the thousands who are waiting, thus a delay. Trust me we have had our personal issues along the way. Good Luck to you all.

[vkrishn 97]

I didn't miss the point -- sorry to all of you who would like to believe that. Part of what I was trying to do was help those less experienced with the whole process to see that there was an complex -- albeit imperfect -- system. I, personally, really find it impossible to believe that there is some great big government conspiracy -- which is what it would take -- to manipulate immigrant visa numbers. There are just WAY too many ways to do it and keep it more discrete than manipulating the numbers!

For example, in the F to EB category -- no great deep dark conspiracy, since IT'S THE LAW. We may not like it, agree with it, support it, or anything else -- but it is the law that Congress passed. When there are unused numbers in the F categories (which rarely happens, which is why it perhaps caused so much consternation when it did/does), BY LAW they pass to the EB category. There are all kinds of reasons why, over the course of the fiscal year, that 10,000 F's were not issued visas -- failure to qualify, administrative processing, failure to submit required documentation, delays in the medical either through disease that needed treatment, etc., etc., etc. These people had already taken up one of the available visa number -- but at the end of the FY, it became clear they would not be issued. So, BY LAW passed by Congress, those numbers went to the EB category. It is a rare occurrence -- but even if they hadn't, they could not have been available to another F applicant, as there was not time to process. Nor could they be moved forward into the new FY to be used then -- that would exceed the Congressional-established numerical limit. (The EB category has some limited flexibility in numbers -- there's a minimum and maximum, so they could receive the numbers). Would it be better to just pull the plug early on someone who's had their interview and is trying to meet all the requirements and tell them, "We don't think you're going to make it in time, so we're going to give your visa number to someone who might?" We'd all be furious at that, too.

Visa numbers are allocated based on those who have been reported documentarily qualified -- not all of those in the pipeline. IF all in the pipeline were considered, I think all numbers would seriously retrogress. There are huge numbers of people who have filed but are no where near ready to submit final paperwork.

Sorry if this comes off as a rant -- I know this is a very personal, emotional process, but I sometimes think it causes a bit of paranoia to develop. Just MHO.

You miss the point again and quoting the "system" as an excuse than rather see the inefficiency of the DOS to make use of the numbers correctly. Spillovers can fall vertically and from category to another so i find it hard to believe that there were 10000 extra in the family categories that did not get spilled over within the family category and made their way to EB. That doesn't make sense.

Spillover math (unless i am totally off):-

F2A: 87934 visas and Gets any remaining visa numbers from F1

F2B: 26266 plus gets any remaining visa numbers from F1 and F2A

F3: 23400 plus gets anything remaining from F1 and F2A/B.

F4: 65000 plus anything left over from the tp categories.

Now you are telling me that 10K was not used anywhere in the FB category and it spilled to EB category? If the allocation of above is true (at least thats what my understanding is) then it does not make sense for a spillover to happen to EB where every Family based is retrogressed! Bottomline, its the DOS responsibility to use the effective visa numbers in a certain way for full utilization which they aren't. Again, nothing to do with the system.

Even if its the law that spillover can happen, its the DOS responsibility to make maximum use of visa numbers for each category. Why is that EB numbers are always been "perfect" (except for the July case).