Application Denied a day before Oath Ceremony. No notices received.

[Ingvarr 0]

Alright ladies and gentlemen, here is where we at right now:

As scheduled, I arrived to the local office and talked to officer. First of all, we were figured that the officer, who had interviewed me made a mistake and change my mailing address to a physical (it is different because we don't have a USPS route in our subdivision yet). That caused a problem with those letters.

He printed the denial notice - it is a template. I am a person with lack of good moral character because I have avoided the SS registration and they cannot accept my statement (I had no clue bla bla bla because of bla bla bla) because it's not matching their criteria. As a resolution, they advise me to fill up my application again, in 2016, then I'll turn 31. As you guys said already.

The guy who had the same problem as I am (my first post) - had it during the interview, they allowed him to provide a few reference letters to "fix" his moral character. He is 28. Mine case is different - on the interview the officer said that this is okay, my statement of explanation is fine, but Man above him was thinking in different way. So, basically, they can only accept the reference letters within my appeal. But there is no guarantee that I will be granted the citizenship after I file an appeal. Appeal costs $580.

The officer whom I talked today has recommended me to file another N400 instead of the appeal. 3 months, not 6, another chance on the interview, so I can prove my character, and 70 bucks more expensive. Appeal would go to them directly, I will not be contacted in any way, they will just make another decision. But in any way, I have to prove my words somehow with my lack of SS registration. And I have no idea what else to tell. He said "use your imagination". Ha. We are not in a kindergarden. How can I prove myself that I had no clue about the selective service? Will hey consider the references from tens of american people who knew me for 5 years? What you would recommend me to do? I have 12 more days to file an appeal. I don't really want to apply for another n400 as I think it is stupid (at this point). If I would try to get the citizenship just for heck of it - I would wait for 2 more years. The problem is - I want to get my dad here asap. He is a specialist and already has a position in a company I work for. They are waiting for him to come as a permanent resident. Another thing (but it's means pretty much nothing, just funny, my wife and kids has a new american last name now, gut their dad got screwed, lol)

I would appreciate any thoughts, and sorry, I didn't say thank you for everyone of you who helped me a lot already. Thank you guys!

Igor_G.

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

So many male immigrants just shine on the requirement then claim they didn't understand . You need to prove you are not one of those.

BTW the last time they had a draft was when I was in high school and I have been out for 40 years. It is one of the stupidest things an immigrant can "forget" as there is basically 0 chance of being called.

[JimmyHou 611]

Alright ladies and gentlemen, here is where we at right now:

As scheduled, I arrived to the local office and talked to officer. First of all, we were figured that the officer, who had interviewed me made a mistake and change my mailing address to a physical (it is different because we don't have a USPS route in our subdivision yet). That caused a problem with those letters.

He printed the denial notice - it is a template. I am a person with lack of good moral character because I have avoided the SS registration and they cannot accept my statement (I had no clue bla bla bla because of bla bla bla) because it's not matching their criteria. As a resolution, they advise me to fill up my application again, in 2016, then I'll turn 31. As you guys said already.

The guy who had the same problem as I am (my first post) - had it during the interview, they allowed him to provide a few reference letters to "fix" his moral character. He is 28. Mine case is different - on the interview the officer said that this is okay, my statement of explanation is fine, but Man above him was thinking in different way. So, basically, they can only accept the reference letters within my appeal. But there is no guarantee that I will be granted the citizenship after I file an appeal. Appeal costs $580.

The officer whom I talked today has recommended me to file another N400 instead of the appeal. 3 months, not 6, another chance on the interview, so I can prove my character, and 70 bucks more expensive. Appeal would go to them directly, I will not be contacted in any way, they will just make another decision. But in any way, I have to prove my words somehow with my lack of SS registration. And I have no idea what else to tell. He said "use your imagination". Ha. We are not in a kindergarden. How can I prove myself that I had no clue about the selective service? Will hey consider the references from tens of american people who knew me for 5 years? What you would recommend me to do? I have 12 more days to file an appeal. I don't really want to apply for another n400 as I think it is stupid (at this point). If I would try to get the citizenship just for heck of it - I would wait for 2 more years. The problem is - I want to get my dad here asap. He is a specialist and already has a position in a company I work for. They are waiting for him to come as a permanent resident. Another thing (but it's means pretty much nothing, just funny, my wife and kids has a new american last name now, gut their dad got screwed, lol)

I would appreciate any thoughts, and sorry, I didn't say thank you for everyone of you who helped me a lot already. Thank you guys!

Igor_G.

I think if you apply again or appeal, there's a good chance (maybe more than 50%) that you'll be denied again. So my advice would be for you to wait until 2016. However, the situation with your dad makes things a little more urgent, so I have to say it depends on your financial situation. For many people on here $600 is a large amount of money that you have to save up for, while for others it's not a big deal. If you don't mind losing the money and going through the heartache of waiting, then go ahead and appeal or reapply; it may work out for you.

As to whether it would be better to appeal or reapply now, I really don't know what would be better. Are there any adverse effects to being denied twice? I'm not sure. Personally, I think I would wait until 2016 as a first choice and I would appeal as a second choice. It's just a feeling, but if you just reapply, your application could just end up in the hands of the same supervisor and we already know what his interpretation of the rules is.

The officer who told you to use your imagination was actually telling you something important; he was letting you know that there's nothing concrete you can submit to convince them; whatever you come up with may or may not work. The only sure thing you can do is wait until you're 31.

It's not a great situation to be in, but on the bright side, unlike many people on here who get denied for other reasons, you have at least one sure way to get your citizenship. Good luck.

[Hypnos 6,576]

It's your money to spend on any appeal you decide to file; I don't think it will be successful, but you're of course free to try.

[Clair 6]

Just my 2 cents.

I've been living in the US for almost 20 years, my son grew up here (wasn't born here though) - and we have never even heard of selective services before he graduated from high school and applied for FAFSA. That's when we've got a letter in the mail stating he had to register - otherwise no money for college. So he did.

I don't find it weird or not-believable that OP forgot/didn't know about SS registration.

However, (sorry, can't find an English equivalent): незнание закона не освобождает от ответственности. Chances his appeal will be granted are slim.

[jcarlo 2]

Just my 2 cents.

I've been living in the US for almost 20 years, my son grew up here (wasn't born here though) - and we have never even heard of selective services before he graduated from high school and applied for FAFSA. That's when we've got a letter in the mail stating he had to register - otherwise no money for college. So he did.

I don't find it weird or not-believable that OP forgot/didn't know about SS registration.

However, (sorry, can't find an English equivalent): незнание закона не освобождает от ответственности. Chances his appeal will be granted are slim.

I agree with you, the only reason I signed up for selective services is because I had to apply for FAFSA. If not, I would've not done it out of ignorance.

[Ingvarr 0]

Okay guys, here is some updates.

The appeal filled and sent to them on May 25th. Two days ago (July 14th) I've got a phone call from local USCIS office (from same number they use to cancel my Oath Ceremony). Nice lady on other side told me that she was reviewing the case and spoke with director again (same officer who denied my case in the first time) and upon information I provided (huge explanation and 11 professional reference letters) they approved my application at this time. So, July 25th is the Oath Ceremony. The funny part of it, during all of my Appeal Journey a closest friend of mine applied, passed everything and they scheduled the Ceremony on the same day as mine. Fun. So, I am super excited and officially can say that the Appeal was NEEDED and WORKED. Thank you everyone of you who made it possible (yes you did, your suggestions and advices made me to do the research and file an appeal). So pleased to have such a nice community of people who is being so helpful. Thank you guys!

Igor.

[DC85 113]

congratulation ... I am so happy for you

[JimmyHou 611]

Okay guys, here is some updates.

The appeal filled and sent to them on May 25th. Two days ago (July 14th) I've got a phone call from local USCIS office (from same number they use to cancel my Oath Ceremony). Nice lady on other side told me that she was reviewing the case and spoke with director again (same officer who denied my case in the first time) and upon information I provided (huge explanation and 11 professional reference letters) they approved my application at this time. So, July 25th is the Oath Ceremony. The funny part of it, during all of my Appeal Journey a closest friend of mine applied, passed everything and they scheduled the Ceremony on the same day as mine. Fun. So, I am super excited and officially can say that the Appeal was NEEDED and WORKED. Thank you everyone of you who made it possible (yes you did, your suggestions and advices made me to do the research and file an appeal). So pleased to have such a nice community of people who is being so helpful. Thank you guys!

Igor.

That's fantastic!

I'm really curious as to what sort of evidence/argument you used on your appeal.

Congratulations.

[mamaSue 38]

Heyyyy congratulations....glad it all worked out for you!

Ohhh.... and enjoy the ceremony!!

[Ingvarr 0]

That's fantastic!

I'm really curious as to what sort of evidence/argument you used on your appeal.

Congratulations!

I've just been completely honest Tryed to be as open as possible. But I found a few things which would probably played a major part of the appeal. Here is a quote from my explanation letter:

"[...]The form I-485 I signed while applying for Green Card stated I gave permission to the government to register me for Selective Service. In 2010 and 2011 I filed for the Alaska State Permanent Fund Divided, which in its application also states that I gave permission to the government to register me for Selective Service if applicable.

The failure to register became known to me in September 2013 at the age of 28 while I was reviewing the application material for Naturalization. At that time I drafted a letter explaining that I had become aware of the failure and the circumstances surrounding the failure. I also at that time completed a Status Information Letter Request Form and submitted to Selective Service and their response has been attached to my N400 application.

I am fully aware of the requirement to demonstrate good moral character for at least five years prior to naturalization and that my failure to register for Selective Service has been perceived as a breach of good moral character. I can only pray that you consider my explanation as well as except the included references from individuals who some have known me for over five years as my proof of good moral character[...]"

[Hypnos 6,576]

Glad I was wrong. Providing a lot of information for your good moral character is likely what turned the tide.

[Boiler 45,516]

He could show that he did go through one of the usual routes to register, it was an administrative issue.

Most Post Offices do have posters about the need to register.

Always wondered there has not been a court case, clear discrimination based on gender.

[Ingvarr 0]

Just wondering, how often anyone read those posters at the post office... Or visit a post office?

[JimmyHou 611]

He could show that he did go through one of the usual routes to register, it was an administrative issue.

Most Post Offices do have posters about the need to register.

Always wondered there has not been a court case, clear discrimination based on gender.

I've never noticed anything in the post office other than posters showing new stamps available for sale or passport application information. I'll definitely look for Selective Service posters next time I'm there, now that you've pointed it out. Honestly though, I'm only in the post office once every couple of years.

Regarding the issue of gender discrimination, I'm with you, but the Supreme Court disagreed with us in 1981 in a 6-3 decision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostker_v._Goldberg