Satanic group reveals crowdfunded monument for Oklahoma State Capitol

[GandD 5,966]

You go to church if you want to. There are Christians that don't go to church but hold weekly meetings at their home with other Christians to discuss the bible and real world things.

Not in all flavors of Christianity. In many, Church is mandatory.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

I really don't think you know what you're talking about.

If you're talking about the fruit Eve ate in the Garden of Eden, it wasn't Satanic Fruit. It was made by God. God gave man free will. The serpent told Eve that the fruit would not kill her, but would give her knowledge.

God wanted man to be ignorant.

Satan wanted man to be educated.

And yet we blame Satan for all of the ills simply because they came after Eve ate the fruit of knowledge. That's like blaming vaccines for autism because the symptoms become more obvious after the age where vaccines are given. For all we know, without knowledge, Adam and Eve would have blundered, like animals, into all sorts of evil. See dolphins, otters and various primates for evidence of turf wars, rape, incest and much more in a creature that was not given self-determination by God.

And if you want to get REALLY technical? Eve was a cloning experiment. God made Eve from Adam's rib. That's cloning. God made Eve to be Adam's wife. That's incest.

Incest is God-made, by the tenets of Christianity, not Satan-made.

And aside from that, and I don't know how to explain this any clearer, Satanists do not worship Satan. Satanists worship knowledge and self-determination.

The apple was evil.

And what did this good knowledge bring us humans? People wanting to die and take their wealth with them? What a joke.

Not in all flavors of Christianity. In many, Church is mandatory.

Not mandatory. The bible says it is good to be in good community with other Christians. It helps to keep the faith strong.

[GandD 5,966]

Read that VERY carefully. Especially that last sentence. Do you know WHY it is that so-called Satanic Ritual Abuse follows a very specific set of identifying features?

It is made up. Yes, there is the odd whackjob who does nasty horrible things and calls themself a satanist (you get these with Christians as well. See: Elizabeth Smart), but if you look up something called Satanic Panic, which was where people were being accused of committing acts of Satanic Ritual Abuse on children all over America, as I recall in the 80s though it could have been the 70s, it was the parents and the therapists questioning the children who were leaving these suggestions of what was 'being done' to the kids.

Satanic Ritual Abuse is not some widespread thing that Satanists do. It's just not. ESPECIALLY the abuse of children. LaVeyan and Satanic Temple Satanism both hold children up as people to be revered and admired and cared for and which you must never, never, never harm. This was actually the whole point of the Satanic Baptism of Xena (Zena? I never remember how you spell her name) LaVey, daughter of Anton LaVey.

Well I have.

When I had an emergency the same week that I was due to pay my dog's adoption fee and the adoption fee (for a purebred great dane) was out of my reach, it was a Satanist who paid it for me.

When I had the worst breakup of my life, one that left me shattered for months, I was supported by Satanists who kept me sane.

I've known Satanists who gave their last dollar to feed a homeless man on the street.

Satanists are just normal people who practice a religion based on different values that are entirely based on questioning the moral authority of theistic religions. The name Satanist comes from the fact that Satan was cast out for asking questions of God. The idea of doing nothing harmful to a being which cannot consent is integral to the religion. Animals and children must be protected from harm. People who are willfully ignorant should be cast out from society. There is no God, you are your own God as you make the decisions about your own life.

Don't subscribe to Satanic Panic.

And if you want an organized good deed done by Satanists? The same group sponsoring this statue are also part of an Adopt a Highway initiative and the very first thing on their campaigns page is http://protectchildrenproject.com/

From the first paragraph that link takes you to:

It's literally a campaign against children being hurt by their schools in the name of behavioural modification. The methods listed in that paragraph in italics are proven many times over not to reduce instances of oppositional, defiant or violent behaviour.

Are these real "Satanists" or just people that hate Christianity? To think Christianity is dumb and then pray or worship its bad guy seems dumb to me. I understand the "make them pay" thing but its a little overkill IMHO.

The apple was evil.

And what did this good knowledge bring us humans? People wanting to die and take their wealth with them? What a joke.

Not mandatory. The bible says it is good to be in good community with other Christians. It helps to keep the faith strong.

I was raised Catholic, church was mandatory. Catholicism is the largest denomination of Christianity by nearly double.

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

The apple was evil.

And what did this good knowledge bring us humans? People wanting to die and take their wealth with them? What a joke.

So now it's not about rape and murder, it's about greed, something which we also see in animals? Animals didn't eat from the tree of knowledge--and yes, the Bible says it was a tree of knowledge, not a tree of evil--and yet otters rape their young and baby seals to death; dolphins will sexually assault humans and rape their fellow dolphins; magpies hoard shiny, useless things and baboons have turf wars. We are not unique. Knowledge did not make these things happen, instinct made these things happen and humanity tries to pretend we aren't all animals at the core of ourselves.

Are these real "Satanists" or just people that hate Christianity? To think Christianity is dumb and then pray or worship its bad guy seems dumb to me. I understand the "make them pay" thing but its a little overkill IMHO.

Satan is merely a symbol to them, of the passageway to self-determination. Much like Christians see the cross (a murder weapon popularized by Romans who did not worship the Christian god) as a symbol of love and good as a much more recognizable symbol than the alpha fish that early Christians used to identify each other under Roman rule (yes, most Christians recognize this symbol and its history, I'm sure, but it hasn't entered the secular consciousness in the same way). Satan is a Christian figure, yes, but in Western society, the story of Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge is universally known to the point that even secularists recognize it easily. The point of picking such a shocking symbol is to make people stop and take notice. Sure, the apple could have been the thing chosen as a symbol, but who would notice a bunch of people discussing self-determination whilst standing around an apple? Isn't that just Steve Jobs? (that's a joke, for those who might miss it)

Edited May 5, 2014 by Not a Tailor

[GandD 5,966]

So now it's not about rape and murder, it's about greed, something which we also see in animals? Animals didn't eat from the tree of knowledge--and yes, the Bible says it was a tree of knowledge, not a tree of evil--and yet otters rape their young and baby seals to death; dolphins will sexually assault humans and rape their fellow dolphins; magpies hoard shiny, useless things and baboons have turf wars. We are not unique. Knowledge did not make these things happen, instinct made these things happen and humanity tries to pretend we aren't all animals at the core of ourselves.

Satan is merely a symbol to them, of the passageway to self-determination. Much like Christians see the cross (a murder weapon popularized by Romans who did not worship the Christian god) as a symbol of love and good as a much more recognizable symbol than the alpha fish that early Christians used to identify each other under Roman rule (yes, most Christians recognize this symbol and its history, I'm sure, but it hasn't entered the secular consciousness in the same way). Satan is a Christian figure, yes, but in Western society, the story of Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge is universally known to the point that even secularists recognize it easily. The point of picking such a shocking symbol is to make people stop and take notice. Sure, the apple could have been the thing chosen as a symbol, but who would notice a bunch of people discussing self-determination whilst standing around an apple? Isn't that just Steve Jobs? (that's a joke, for those who might miss it)

For some folks, the whole point of Christianity is the cross. Jesus died for our sins on the cross and was resurrected. I think that has to play into the cross symbol.

Do these people actually believe Satan, at least the way Christians view him, exists? Why not just be an atheist?

[Janelle2002 3,865]

So now it's not about rape and murder, it's about greed, something which we also see in animals? Animals didn't eat from the tree of knowledge--and yes, the Bible says it was a tree of knowledge, not a tree of evil--and yet otters rape their young and baby seals to death; dolphins will sexually assault humans and rape their fellow dolphins; magpies hoard shiny, useless things and baboons have turf wars. We are not unique. Knowledge did not make these things happen, instinct made these things happen and humanity tries to pretend we aren't all animals at the core of ourselves.

Satan is merely a symbol to them, of the passageway to self-determination. Much like Christians see the cross (a murder weapon popularized by Romans who did not worship the Christian god) as a symbol of love and good as a much more recognizable symbol than the alpha fish that early Christians used to identify each other under Roman rule (yes, most Christians recognize this symbol and its history, I'm sure, but it hasn't entered the secular consciousness in the same way). Satan is a Christian figure, yes, but in Western society, the story of Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge is universally known to the point that even secularists recognize it easily. The point of picking such a shocking symbol is to make people stop and take notice. Sure, the apple could have been the thing chosen as a symbol, but who would notice a bunch of people discussing self-determination whilst standing around an apple? Isn't that just Steve Jobs? (that's a joke, for those who might miss it)

Knowledge is no good to people when they do not know how to use it. That's why we are bombing each other today. Knowledge at work as we know it.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Janelle2002

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

For some folks, the whole point of Christianity is the cross. Jesus died for our sins on the cross and was resurrected. I think that has to play into the cross symbol.

Do these people actually believe Satan, at least the way Christians view him, exists? Why not just be an atheist?

Why not select the rock from behind which he came upon the resurrection, then? Was not that a greater miracle than a man suffocating to death during crucifixion like so many men before him? The point now is the cross. But at the genesis of the belief structure, when Jesus was freshly killed, there were so many symbols to choose from, so many things going on. The cross was a murder weapon, pure and simple. There was nothing miraculous about a man dying from being executed. The miracle was the resurrection.

Satanists are atheists. LaVeyan Satanism is also called Atheistic Satanism. They don't believe Satan exists the way Christians view him.

Now you might say "But atheists can't have religion!" Why not? Religion is about belief and ritual, not a deity. Other atheistic religions exist. Humans like to have a sense of community and common goal and tradition. This is why atheist groups have meetings. This is why Satanists have 'magic' and a 'Satanic Bible.'

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

Knowledge is no good to people when they do not know how to use it. That's why we are bombing each other today. Knowledge at work as we know it.

You're very focussed on the negative aspects of knowledge.

When a baby is born with a defective heart and a surgeon repairs it, and that baby grows and lives and goes on to lead a normal life, that's knowledge as we know it at work, as well. When I pick up my phone and text my wife, 2000 miles away, that's knowledge as we know it at work. When a mother snaps a photograph of her child's first steps, that's knowledge as we know it at work. When you get on a plane to go live with your spouse after years apart, that's knowledge at work. When you read your Bible, a written text that tells you about the goodness of your Lord and the beauty of his love, printed into wide availability, this is also knowledge at work.

I'm sorry that someone has hurt your ability to be rational about knowledge or to see it as anything but evil. It seems like a deep-seated issue for you, so rather than upset you further, I'm stepping out of this conversation.

[GandD 5,966]

Why not select the rock from behind which he came upon the resurrection, then? Was not that a greater miracle than a man suffocating to death during crucifixion like so many men before him? The point now is the cross. But at the genesis of the belief structure, when Jesus was freshly killed, there were so many symbols to choose from, so many things going on. The cross was a murder weapon, pure and simple. There was nothing miraculous about a man dying from being executed. The miracle was the resurrection.

But the death was the sacrifice. That act was him dying for everyone's sins. Someone that actually believes all this stuff would have much more to add to this than me btw.

Satanists are atheists. LaVeyan Satanism is also called Atheistic Satanism. They don't believe Satan exists the way Christians view him.

Now you might say "But atheists can't have religion!" Why not? Religion is about belief and ritual, not a deity. Other atheistic religions exist. Humans like to have a sense of community and common goal and tradition. This is why atheist groups have meetings. This is why Satanists have 'magic' and a 'Satanic Bible.'

I think I would say, "why would they have religion?" I'm an atheist myself. I just don't understand the effort put forward in something like satanism when so many of them are actually atheists. I guess, like you're alluding to, its community/somewhere to belong, all that. I'm apparently missing the gene that makes me care to have any of that.

[GandD 5,966]

Knowledge is no good to people when they do not know how to use it. That's why we are bombing each other today. Knowledge at work as we know it.

People bomb each other over religion and lack of knowledge all the time. Half truths are not knowledge, that's called propaganda.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

You're very focussed on the negative aspects of knowledge.

When a baby is born with a defective heart and a surgeon repairs it, and that baby grows and lives and goes on to lead a normal life, that's knowledge as we know it at work, as well. When I pick up my phone and text my wife, 2000 miles away, that's knowledge as we know it at work. When a mother snaps a photograph of her child's first steps, that's knowledge as we know it at work. When you get on a plane to go live with your spouse after years apart, that's knowledge at work. When you read your Bible, a written text that tells you about the goodness of your Lord and the beauty of his love, printed into wide availability, this is also knowledge at work.

I'm sorry that someone has hurt your ability to be rational about knowledge or to see it as anything but evil. It seems like a deep-seated issue for you, so rather than upset you further, I'm stepping out of this conversation.

Hi Not a Tailor,

I am not upset. This is a discussion. These are my feelings and you have yours. This only.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

What if the internet is the embodiment of Satan, and political forums are his hands

We all going to hell

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

&...People like - Not a Tailor - & the discussion in this thread = Exactly why I'm gonna make bank!

I'm thinking to cast The Rock as Satan....

[Novembro 1,763]

The Rock is super awesome.

This thread is marginally annoying.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

The Rock is super awesome.

This thread is marginally annoying.

So you came to the Satan thread, forrr the Rock? hmmmm