Satanic group reveals crowdfunded monument for Oklahoma State Capitol

[JohnR! 5,495]

Well, the Ten Commandments do make a lot of sense. But that is not the issue with this statue.

I believe the problem is that the US has separation of church and state, yet many gov. buildings have these sort of statues. Having a religious doctrine on the grounds of a state building are obviously not keeping them separate.

I also think I recall that this statue in OK was donated by some sort of religious group, donating a religious statue for a state building.

So a group of people with a different religion are making a statue with plans to donate it, just like the other statue! They are trying to point out the inherent hypocrisy of this statue donation stuff.

And, from what I understand, Satanists don't really worship the devil or want to do bad. They just call themselves that to be shocking, mostly.

I think the statue is pretty funny, myself. Would love for it to be at a capitol building.

This reminds that someone lately said that the US needs more explanatory news. This article just repeats some disconnected facts with no context.

It is the other 603 that are a b|tch to follow.....

[Janelle2002 3,865]

It is the other 603 that are a b|tch to follow.....

Hard to follow, but they make sense. Don't commit adultery. Why? Because you will hurt your spouse. See makes sense.

I don't see anything about Satanism that makes sense and warrants a statute. I would hate to go to school there.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

No I have not. I have to go by the research that has been done. You can find this online too.

Oh, so hiding your sources. Okay. I thought we could discuss what this is really about (and it's not really about Satanists) but you want to talk about how Satanists are bad and force others to find your breadcrumbs to engage with you.

So, I won't engage any more.

[GandD 5,966]

What does "old bean" ..mean?

I dunno but I have to refer to my father in law as this in Chinese. Sounds like "Low dow"

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

It is the other 603 that are a b|tch to follow.....

Fortunately, whether or not they make sense is not the issue here. Separation of church and state, and freedom of religion are the issues.

A lot of stuff in hinduism makes a lot of sense, too. Should that be the metric we go by when putting up a statue on a government lawn?

What happens when Mormons or scientologists want to put up a statue that "makes sense?" What about jihadi muslims? That stuff probably makes sense to them...

[JohnR! 5,495]

Hard to follow, but they make sense. Don't commit adultery. Why? Because you will hurt your spouse. See makes sense.

I don't see anything about Satanism that makes sense and warrants a statute. I would hate to go to school there.

I would argue that the 10 commandments are just a natural expansion on the golden rule. I would further argue they are derived from humanism rather than religion.

The golden rule appeared when the first human abstracted from his/her own existence and put him/herself in someone else's shoe. That was the moment the entire notion of equality was born. I see is as part of the philosophical evolution of our species, rather than something more obscure.

Fortunately, whether or not they make sense is not the issue here. Separation of church and state, and freedom of religion are the issues.

A lot of stuff in hinduism makes a lot of sense, too. Should that be the metric we go by when putting up a statue on a government lawn?

What happens when Mormons or scientologists want to put up a statue that "makes sense?" What about jihadi muslims? That stuff probably makes sense to them...

Absolutely!

[GandD 5,966]

Hard to follow, but they make sense. Don't commit adultery. Why? Because you will hurt your spouse. See makes sense.

I don't see anything about Satanism that makes sense and warrants a statute. I would hate to go to school there.

I would venture that most Satanists are Satanists because they have issues with Christian doctrine. I always saw it as an "F You" to whatever made them mad about Christian doctrine. It is kinda funny. The weird thing to me is these guys and the atheist folks develop churches with goals, beliefs, and all the trimmings. Kinda missing the point IMHO. The cool thing about not being Christian is not having to go to church or be held to free labor for others.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

Oh, so hiding your sources. Okay. I thought we could discuss what this is really about (and it's not really about Satanists) but you want to talk about how Satanists are bad and force others to find your breadcrumbs to engage with you.

So, I won't engage any more.

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4217677/k.77D3/Satanism_The_World_of_the_Occult__A_Christian_View_of_Demonic_Worship.htm

Author:

Petersen, Jesper Aagaard

Title:

The Seeds of Satan: Conceptions of Magic in Contemporary Satanism

http://satanismnz.wordpress.com/tag/thesis/page/4/

Fortunately, whether or not they make sense is not the issue here. Separation of church and state, and freedom of religion are the issues.

A lot of stuff in hinduism makes a lot of sense, too. Should that be the metric we go by when putting up a statue on a government lawn?

What happens when Mormons or scientologists want to put up a statue that "makes sense?" What about jihadi muslims? That stuff probably makes sense to them...

Separation of Church and State is okay, but this country was so called founded on Christianity with Christians wanting a new home, yes?

[Jacque67 7,328]

We have Ancient Greek and Roman statues in schools in the UK. No probs-, just a lump of stone.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

I would venture that most Satanists are Satanists because they have issues with Christian doctrine. I always saw it as an "F You" to whatever made them mad about Christian doctrine. It is kinda funny. The weird thing to me is these guys and the atheist folks develop churches with goals, beliefs, and all the trimmings. Kinda missing the point IMHO. The cool thing about not being Christian is not having to go to church or be held to free labor for others.

You go to church if you want to. There are Christians that don't go to church but hold weekly meetings at their home with other Christians to discuss the bible and real world things.

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

You mean like this.

I have not heard of any Satan worshippers doing good deeds.

Types of Abuse. SRA includes emotional abuse (terrifying threats, deliberate heightening of fear, etc.), sexual abuse (incest, mutilation of genitals, etc.), other physical abuse (beating, cutting, etc.), and spiritual abuse (taunts that God has rejected them, He won’t forgive them, Jesus is defeated, etc.). The ritual elements of the abuse are always satanic or occultic. Features of satanic ceremony folklore — such as the black mass, human sacrifice, drinking of blood, and satanic symbols — are common. However, victims typically cannot recount the intricacies of occult rituals beyond what is commonly found in satanically oriented material available in general bookstores,¹⁹ or what they have heard from other victims or therapists

Read that VERY carefully. Especially that last sentence. Do you know WHY it is that so-called Satanic Ritual Abuse follows a very specific set of identifying features?

It is made up. Yes, there is the odd whackjob who does nasty horrible things and calls themself a satanist (you get these with Christians as well. See: Elizabeth Smart), but if you look up something called Satanic Panic, which was where people were being accused of committing acts of Satanic Ritual Abuse on children all over America, as I recall in the 80s though it could have been the 70s, it was the parents and the therapists questioning the children who were leaving these suggestions of what was 'being done' to the kids.

Satanic Ritual Abuse is not some widespread thing that Satanists do. It's just not. ESPECIALLY the abuse of children. LaVeyan and Satanic Temple Satanism both hold children up as people to be revered and admired and cared for and which you must never, never, never harm. This was actually the whole point of the Satanic Baptism of Xena (Zena? I never remember how you spell her name) LaVey, daughter of Anton LaVey.

No I have not. I have to go by the research that has been done. You can find this online too.

Well I have.

When I had an emergency the same week that I was due to pay my dog's adoption fee and the adoption fee (for a purebred great dane) was out of my reach, it was a Satanist who paid it for me.

When I had the worst breakup of my life, one that left me shattered for months, I was supported by Satanists who kept me sane.

I've known Satanists who gave their last dollar to feed a homeless man on the street.

Satanists are just normal people who practice a religion based on different values that are entirely based on questioning the moral authority of theistic religions. The name Satanist comes from the fact that Satan was cast out for asking questions of God. The idea of doing nothing harmful to a being which cannot consent is integral to the religion. Animals and children must be protected from harm. People who are willfully ignorant should be cast out from society. There is no God, you are your own God as you make the decisions about your own life.

Don't subscribe to Satanic Panic.

And if you want an organized good deed done by Satanists? The same group sponsoring this statue are also part of an Adopt a Highway initiative and the very first thing on their campaigns page is http://protectchildrenproject.com/

From the first paragraph that link takes you to:

STUDENTS: If your deeply held beliefs oppose school faculty hitting you, physically restraining you, or holding you against your will in an isolation room, please submit your name, email, and the name of your school, and The Satanic Temple will put your school board on notice that harming you violates your civil rights. All religious denominations are welcome. You do not need to be a member of the Temple or even hold any religious affiliation to register. Registration does not make you a member of the Temple.

It's literally a campaign against children being hurt by their schools in the name of behavioural modification. The methods listed in that paragraph in italics are proven many times over not to reduce instances of oppositional, defiant or violent behaviour.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Separation of Church and State is okay, but this country was so called founded on Christianity with Christians wanting a new home, yes?

No...This country was founded on freedom of/from religion. That a majority of christians arrived here first can't be interpreted as this being a christian country. America is secular, so much so our doors were never closed to any type of religion. All you need do is look around and see how many evangelical second-class para-christian denominations flourished in these 200+ years...

Edited May 5, 2014 by Gegel

[Janelle2002 3,865]

Read that VERY carefully. Especially that last sentence. Do you know WHY it is that so-called Satanic Ritual Abuse follows a very specific set of identifying features?

It is made up. Yes, there is the odd whackjob who does nasty horrible things and calls themself a satanist (you get these with Christians as well. See: Elizabeth Smart), but if you look up something called Satanic Panic, which was where people were being accused of committing acts of Satanic Ritual Abuse on children all over America, as I recall in the 80s though it could have been the 70s, it was the parents and the therapists questioning the children who were leaving these suggestions of what was 'being done' to the kids.

Satanic Ritual Abuse is not some widespread thing that Satanists do. It's just not. ESPECIALLY the abuse of children. LaVeyan and Satanic Temple Satanism both hold children up as people to be revered and admired and cared for and which you must never, never, never harm. This was actually the whole point of the Satanic Baptism of Xena (Zena? I never remember how you spell her name) LaVey, daughter of Anton LaVey.

Well I have.

When I had an emergency the same week that I was due to pay my dog's adoption fee and the adoption fee (for a purebred great dane) was out of my reach, it was a Satanist who paid it for me.

When I had the worst breakup of my life, one that left me shattered for months, I was supported by Satanists who kept me sane.

I've known Satanists who gave their last dollar to feed a homeless man on the street.

Satanists are just normal people who practice a religion based on different values that are entirely based on questioning the moral authority of theistic religions. The name Satanist comes from the fact that Satan was cast out for asking questions of God. The idea of doing nothing harmful to a being which cannot consent is integral to the religion. Animals and children must be protected from harm. People who are willfully ignorant should be cast out from society. There is no God, you are your own God as you make the decisions about your own life.

Don't subscribe to Satanic Panic.

And if you want an organized good deed done by Satanists? The same group sponsoring this statue are also part of an Adopt a Highway initiative and the very first thing on their campaigns page is http://protectchildrenproject.com/

From the first paragraph that link takes you to:

It's literally a campaign against children being hurt by their schools in the name of behavioural modification. The methods listed in that paragraph in italics are proven many times over not to reduce instances of oppositional, defiant or violent behaviour.

I'm sure they did pay for it. So you will be a believer that they are out for the good. Tell me what good has come from biting the Satanic, forbidden fruit? Rape, murder, theft, incest, adultery, etc

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

I'm sure they did pay for it. So you will be a believer that they are out for the good. Tell me what good has come from biting the Satanic, forbidden fruit? Rape, murder, theft, incest, adultery, etc

I really don't think you know what you're talking about.

If you're talking about the fruit Eve ate in the Garden of Eden, it wasn't Satanic Fruit. It was made by God. God gave man free will. The serpent told Eve that the fruit would not kill her, but would give her knowledge.

God wanted man to be ignorant.

Satan wanted man to be educated.

And yet we blame Satan for all of the ills simply because they came after Eve ate the fruit of knowledge. That's like blaming vaccines for autism because the symptoms become more obvious after the age where vaccines are given. For all we know, without knowledge, Adam and Eve would have blundered, like animals, into all sorts of evil. See dolphins, otters and various primates for evidence of turf wars, rape, incest and much more in a creature that was not given self-determination by God.

And if you want to get REALLY technical? Eve was a cloning experiment. God made Eve from Adam's rib. That's cloning. God made Eve to be Adam's wife. That's incest.

Incest is God-made, by the tenets of Christianity, not Satan-made.

And aside from that, and I don't know how to explain this any clearer, Satanists do not worship Satan. Satanists worship knowledge and self-determination.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Not a Tailor

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Janelle, you seem to have a huge blind spot about this. Maybe you heard too much about "satanic" being the same as "evil" growing up?

Just replace that word with something else, because it is just a word, nothing to do with the "evil" that preachers talk about.

And no, the US was not founded as a safe place for Christians. It was a safe place for all. Imagine if another religious group became the majority and wanted to put up a statue on the government lawn, because it "made sense and was good." Wouldn't you be mad?

The instant we accept christian statues at the courthouse, then it paves the way for whatever religious group is the majority in the future, to put up their own religious statue at the courthouse.

The instant we suggest that are laws are based on christian values, then we also pave the way for whatever religious majority may come in the future to change the laws based on their own values.

Can't you see how the separation of church and state in the US is such a fundamental and important thing that we should uphold?