Need opinions on African-American staying in Moscow

[Percival504 0]

Hello to all and TIA to any who reply. Forgive my ignorance, just wondering whether it would be asking for trouble to stay in Moscow for six days. I know to avoid clubs and bars and I know to avoid being out at night. I went to Irkutsk recently (loved Baikal and the cold) and stayed in Moscow overnight as SVO Hotel. The head of security was bald (not sure whether he was a skinhead or not). To travel to Irkutsk will take two days and I'd like to spend as much time as possible with my fiancee. Is it simply to dangerous for non-slavs or are there hotels that I could stay at that would be safe (I'm thinking that we won't need to go out much and if I stay at a five star, we can go to restaurants in the hotel). All opinions will be greatly appreciated.

[dmhweb 0]

I wouldn't be too concerned in Moscow... Moscow & St Pete are far more European than the rest of Russia and some say if you only stay in Moscow you really have not seen the real Russia. I've been to some remote area's where it's more of a curiosity because they have never seen a black person but in the major western cities it's not uncommon.

[Chuckles 0]

Personally, I wouldn't worry any more in Moscow then I would in any other unfamilar large American city. You may get a few more stares of curiousity, but it will all be innocent, for the most part. Stay in popular places and don't go to back allies or the bad neighborhoods, like any other city!

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

MOSCOW. Jan 9 (Interfax) - Last year saw over 500 ethnic hate crimes in Russia, deputy director of Sova analytical center Galina Kozhevnikova told Interfax on Tuesday.

"According to our files, 53 people died and 460 were wounded in racist attacks in Russia in 2006," she said.

Ethnic hate crimes, in most cases involving skinheads, were registered in 40 Russian regions, with Moscow and St. Petersburg witnessing the greatest number of attacks, she said.

Kozhevnikova quoted estimates suggesting that there are over 60,000 skinheads in Russia. The main targets of their attacks are people originating from the Caucasus, Central and Southeast Asia, and members of youth subcultures and sexual minorities.

In 2006, courts became more resolute in issuing verdicts for ethnic hate crimes, Kozhevnikova said.

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=11656992

Russia has seen a wave of attacks on non-whites in recent years, including an explosion at the Cherkizovsky market in northeastern Moscow August 21, which killed 11 people and injured at least 49.

St. Petersburg has also been a focus for race-hate attacks. In September, an Indian student was stabbed to death in the city and a Sudanese national attacked.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20061219/57199272.html

Non-white foreign nationals from Africa, Asia and Latin America are being regularly attacked by aggressive nationalists in Russia as well as migrants from former Soviet republics of the Caucasus and Central Asia.

Earlier this month, four men were arrested on suspicion of killing a 15-year-old Armenian boy on a commuter train near Moscow, and a three-and-a-half-year jail term was handed down for the leader of an extremist gang found guilty of several crimes against non-whites, including the murder of a Senegalese student in April, RIA-Novosti reported.

http://mosnews.com/news/2006/12/14/skinheadsjailed.shtml

[Chuckles 0]

*shrug* This is all common knowledge for people who visit Moscow. I can find lots of stories about Baltimore, New York, San Francisco, Los Angles, Chicago, Peroria, Timbucktu, Bumfuct Egypt, or anywhere.

Just watch your a$$ like anywhere else.

MOSCOW. Jan 9 (Interfax) - Last year saw over 500 ethnic hate crimes in Russia, deputy director of Sova analytical center Galina Kozhevnikova told Interfax on Tuesday.

"According to our files, 53 people died and 460 were wounded in racist attacks in Russia in 2006," she said.

Ethnic hate crimes, in most cases involving skinheads, were registered in 40 Russian regions, with Moscow and St. Petersburg witnessing the greatest number of attacks, she said.

Kozhevnikova quoted estimates suggesting that there are over 60,000 skinheads in Russia. The main targets of their attacks are people originating from the Caucasus, Central and Southeast Asia, and members of youth subcultures and sexual minorities.

In 2006, courts became more resolute in issuing verdicts for ethnic hate crimes, Kozhevnikova said.

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=11656992

Russia has seen a wave of attacks on non-whites in recent years, including an explosion at the Cherkizovsky market in northeastern Moscow August 21, which killed 11 people and injured at least 49.

St. Petersburg has also been a focus for race-hate attacks. In September, an Indian student was stabbed to death in the city and a Sudanese national attacked.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20061219/57199272.html

Non-white foreign nationals from Africa, Asia and Latin America are being regularly attacked by aggressive nationalists in Russia as well as migrants from former Soviet republics of the Caucasus and Central Asia.

Earlier this month, four men were arrested on suspicion of killing a 15-year-old Armenian boy on a commuter train near Moscow, and a three-and-a-half-year jail term was handed down for the leader of an extremist gang found guilty of several crimes against non-whites, including the murder of a Senegalese student in April, RIA-Novosti reported.

http://mosnews.com/news/2006/12/14/skinheadsjailed.shtml

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

*shrug* This is all common knowledge for people who visit Moscow.

In case the OP isn't one of them, I figured I oughta point it out. Full disclosure and all that

[John and Anna 0]

*shrug* This is all common knowledge for people who visit Moscow.

In case the OP isn't one of them, I figured I oughta point it out. Full disclosure and all that

In peter it was more of a curiosity. Funny they don't like Caucasians. My wife hates checking the box Caucasian.

Enjoy your time there. Ignore the stares. Hey I can get you a bodyguard for $10 an hour...

[Percival504 0]

Thanks, everyone. I figure the skinheads (nationalists or whatever) are just punks and if I stay at a 5 star hotel, I'll probably be OK. I actually ran into one at the airport in Irkutsk, but he was alone. When he gave me his most hateful stare, I just laughed at him, pointed him out to my fiancee, laughed at him again and gave her the most passionate kiss I've ever given anyone. She looked at him and laughed too.

The only thing that really worries me is that my fiancee is (like everyone else's probably) young, genuinely gorgeous, fluent in six languages and obviously aware that she is exceptional. Its more the: "he's taking one of our best" that I'm worried about. Also, that bodyguard might not be a bad idea if you're serious. Let me know. And I really appreciate all of the replies.

BTW: I am very aware of the hate crimes in Russia (there are more skinheads in Russia than any where else in the world), but Moscow is also a huge city, so I don't know how it all comes out proportionally.

Ironically, fewer people stared at me in Irkutsk than do here in the States (a young middle class black guy is apparently a real oddity here at home).

[Chuckles 0]

Skinheads in Moscow are more interested in you if you are jewish. Also, you have more to fear from being "American" then from being "African". Just my opinion. If you talk to other African Americans who have visited, I think you will hear the same thing.

As far as a bodygaurd, if you can afford a 5-star hotel in Moscow (500 a night min) then you might as well get the bodygaurd!

[Turboguy 6]

I don't think you will have much trouble as long as you don't go looking for it which it does not sound like you will do. Blacks used to be rare there but that seems to be changing. I probably saw 30 or 40 on my last trip to Ukraine who seemed to have no problems at all. In Moscow it does not seem unusual at all. I am not saying I feel like I am in Baltimore when I look around but I have seen dozens there who seemed to have been accepted quite well. I am not implying it is nothing to worry about. I do think you will be fine though. Hopefully it will all go well.

[slim 1,525]

I don't think you're asking for trouble.

It will be different, but like anywhere else, you'll be able to stay out of trouble as long as you don't get yourself into it.

When I was in Moscow, I went to a club (Hungry duck - golodnaya utka) and hung out with a black guy there. He had an English accent. (Although he may have been Jamaican... I don't know, he told us he was from Kingston, London, Moscow, who knows. We were all quite drunk, and sometimes, people overseas are really from 14 different places.) He appeared to be "in" with the regular crowd, but still got the "what the hell are you doing here?" looks, points and whispers from some of the folks. But, all in all, there was no drama. At another club (Doug and Marty's Boar House) there was a large group of African merchants visiting Moscow on holiday. No one said squat to them as they were a fairly large group. Sounds a lot like the States, huh? People aren't afraid of being racist to one person... but sure bite their tongues when they might get their @$$ kicked for dropping an n-bomb. Every night I went out (which was just about every night.... some clubs I'm not sure where they were... the drinks are that good!) there was at least one black guy or girl there, although none were American. I don't want to make it sound like there are black people everywhere, but in Moscow, it's probably like rural America. "I go to school with a black guy." (I'm stressing the "A" part.)

As said in the other posts, you'll have a lot more "trouble" over being a foreigner than over being black. The fact that you look different from most people there only solidifies you as a foreigner. The fact that you don't speak "perfect" Russian will set you apart anyway, and anyone in Moscow that doesn't speak "perfect" Russian will be identified as an outsider. When my wife and I were there we went to the Kremlin. At the ticket office, the old lady tried to sell her two "foreigner" tickets (foreigners pay more for tickets) because my wife is from the Far East and didn't sound like she was from Moscow. I guess the lady could tell that I wasn't Russian even though I didn't speak. And the cab drivers... Cabbies everywhere will try to take your money if they think you're not from there. Same in Moscow. Have your girl haggle over prices and always agree on a price BEFORE you get in.

Tips: Learn to read Russian (Cyrillic alphabet) before you go. There are a lot of things in Moscow in English, but most are only in Russian. (Some English words or place names, but in Russian letters.) Learn basic Russian words and phrases, and definitely the numbers. (Which you probably already know from being there before.)

You've been to Russia before, so you've got a little experience with how stuff works. Moscow isn't really a big deal. Russians don't usually talk to people they don't know, so you should be able to steer clear of any "trouble" without too much hassle. DO NOT stay in your hotel or the immediate area. Get out and see the city. Use normal "big city" safety rules when out. Go to Doug and Marty's Boarhouse one evening, there are a lot of foreigners there, and it's a pretty cool place to take your lady for a night out. You should have no worries there at all. The Hungry Duck, on the other hand, is one of the craziest clubs I've ever been to, regardless of who you are. However, I still think you should go there if you're a "club-goer" as it is worth seeing.

Bottom line:

Don't sweat Moscow. You're already from the most racist place in the world, we're just "nicer" about it here. At least there you'll know who likes you and who doesn't.

Have fun, good luck, and I sure wish I was going too!

[Percival504 0]

Thanks to all, I appreciate all the advice, knowledge and encouragement. As it turns out, I've found the perfect hotel/resort in the suburbs of Moscow and hired a transfer service here in the states to handle all of my trips (to/from the airport and to/from the City). My fiancee and I don't really like bars or clubs, so could anyone recommend a nice restaurant [in the right part of town ;-)] for lunch or dinner? Thanks, again, everyone I've found everyone's opinion very informative.

As far as staying in goes, we both tend to prefer to be alone together for these too-short visits, so staying at the hotel isn't exactly out of fear of Moscow.

[slim 1,525]

I would recommend taking a walk through the old arbat. It's a touristy area with a Hard Rock Cafe and several other big restaurants. (The moo-moo is good for cheap and delcious food.) Also, Red Square and the Kremlin are worth a day to walk around and see. (Not to mention good "evidence" locations. Snap a few photos in front of St. Basil's to prove you were together within the last two years.)

I hope you're not paying too much for your transfers... I've seen some that are $45 each way from the airport and car and drivers that are around $20-$50/hour. The subway is $.50 each way! (or less!)