Senator Urges Redskins Change

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

stuff you make up in your head is NOT fact.

you've been told where the name redskin came from. Oklahoma is a Choctaw word it was suggested by a Choctaw chief during treaty negotiations with the feds in 1866.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskin_%28slang%29

A linguistic analysis of 42 books published between 1875 and 1930 shows that negative contexts in the use of redskin were significantly more frequent than positive usage. The use of the word Indian in a similarly selected set of books was more balanced though negative contexts were still more frequent than positive contexts. The term was in common use in movies during the most popular period for Hollywood westerns (approximately 1920-1970), with "redskins" usually being used to refer to Native Americans as primitive and warlike.As with any term perceived to be discriminatory, different individuals may hold differing opinions of the term's appropriateness.

To be fair, the word seems to be more likely used in a negative way. It's tricky since it seems to be a slur(to a lesser extent) but I wouldn't call someone that because I know first hand what some people let slide, others won't.

[deleted-05292014 331]

Correct, Yankee and 49er do not describe races of people, they describe sports teams and their players, which is what is being discussed here. To call Derek Jeter a Yankee is fine. To call Colin Kapernick a 49er is fine. To call Robert Griffin III a Redskin is also fine. Again, it's all about context.

So by your rationalization as long as a word is used to reference a team then it's Ok? So we can have a basketball team and call them the New York N****S and it's Ok because it's just a team name.

The kicker here is the original founder and his background and beliefs.

I can show all of you, actually some of you are old enough to remember, memorabilia that was racist. Black lawn jockeys, aunt Jemima pancake mix with the "mammy" image, uncle Ben rice with the Black house servant, various types of syrup labels with the racist graphics, watermelon for sale signs with images of Black children with wild eyes and hair.

America has a long history of using images of people and words to denigrate certain segments of our population. The Redskins name and image come from the same era of thinking and beliefs.

And yes all of you that support it are ignorant of those facts.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

So by your rationalization as long as a word is used to reference a team then it's Ok? So we can have a basketball team and call them the New York N****S and it's Ok because it's just a team name.

The kicker here is the original founder and his background and beliefs.

I can show all of you, actually some of you are old enough to remember, memorabilia that was racist. Black lawn jockeys, aunt Jemima pancake mix with the "mammy" image, uncle Ben rice with the Black house servant, various types of syrup labels with the racist graphics, watermelon for sale signs with images of Black children with wild eyes and hair.

America has a long history of using images of people and words to denigrate certain segments of our population. The Redskins name and image come from the same era of thinking and beliefs.

And yes all of you that support it are ignorant of those facts.

I remember those. Do you remember Sambo's restaurants? And the kids books, Little Black Sambo and Little Brown Koko?

[deleted-05292014 331]

stuff you make up in your head is NOT fact.

you've been told where the name redskin came from. Oklahoma is a Choctaw word it was suggested by a Choctaw chief during treaty negotiations with the feds in 1866.

And racist George Preston Marshall named his team Redskins to honor a Choctaw chief? Is that what you are saying?

I remember those. Do you remember Sambo's restaurants? And the kids books, Little Black Sambo and Little Brown Koko?

Before my time but I am aware of all those things. So you are in agreement with me or you just wanted to add to my point?

[Teddy B 17,252]

So by your rationalization as long as a word is used to reference a team then it's Ok? So we can have a basketball team and call them the New York N****S and it's Ok because it's just a team name.

The kicker here is the original founder and his background and beliefs.

I can show all of you, actually some of you are old enough to remember, memorabilia that was racist. Black lawn jockeys, aunt Jemima pancake mix with the "mammy" image, uncle Ben rice with the Black house servant, various types of syrup labels with the racist graphics, watermelon for sale signs with images of Black children with wild eyes and hair.

America has a long history of using images of people and words to denigrate certain segments of our population. The Redskins name and image come from the same era of thinking and beliefs.

And yes all of you that support it are ignorant of those facts.

No. it's not ok to have a team called the NY *****S. Nor is it the same, but you know that.

The world isn't perfect and we will never be able to please everyone. Calling for change every time someone gets their undies in a bunch is ridiculous. Too many people are offended by too many things these days. Grow a thicker skin and get on with your life.

Anyone who believes that using the name Redskins as it pertains to the football team in the year 2014, is done so in a racist connotation, is digging very deep to do so.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Teddy B

[ready4ONE 5,400]

So by your rationalization as long as a word is used to reference a team then it's Ok? So we can have a basketball team and call them the New York N****S and it's Ok because it's just a team name.

The kicker here is the original founder and his background and beliefs.

I can show all of you, actually some of you are old enough to remember, memorabilia that was racist. Black lawn jockeys, aunt Jemima pancake mix with the "mammy" image, uncle Ben rice with the Black house servant, various types of syrup labels with the racist graphics, watermelon for sale signs with images of Black children with wild eyes and hair.

America has a long history of using images of people and words to denigrate certain segments of our population. The Redskins name and image come from the same era of thinking and beliefs.

And yes all of you that support it are ignorant of those facts.

I think your points are valid to an extent, but I also don't believe that the team name Washington Redskins is any longer representative of racism. Much like African Americans often use the dreaded N word as a term of affection, taking old racist names and symbols and turning the usage and meanings around can take the intended denigration and pain right out of them.

[SMOKE 1,426]

To be fair, the word seems to be more likely used in a negative way. It's tricky since it seems to be a slur(to a lesser extent) but I wouldn't call someone that because I know first hand what some people let slide, others won't.

that's it i'm suing ritz. they call their crisps crackers.

I remember those. Do you remember Sambo's restaurants? And the kids books, Little Black Sambo and Little Brown Koko?

when I was a kid, we use to eat a sambo's all the time. I loved the pies. I have a couple sambo restaurant blackface dolls, never opened.

And racist George Preston Marshall named his team Redskins to honor a Choctaw chief? Is that what you are saying?

no. i'm saying you're reaching awful hard for something to be offended by.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

that's it i'm suing ritz. they call their crisps crackers.

when I was a kid, we use to eat a sambo's all the time. I loved the pies. I have a couple sambo restaurant blackface dolls, never opened.

no. i'm saying you're reaching awful hard for something to be offended by.

If you sue and get paid, I want my cut. That's all I'm saying.

[deleted-05292014 331]

No. it's not ok to have a team called the NY *****S. Nor is it the same, but you know that.

The world isn't perfect and we will never be able to please everyone. Calling for change every time someone gets their undies in a bunch is ridiculous. Too many people are offended by too many things these days. Grow a thicker skin and get on with your life.

Why isn't it the same? Maybe I'm the one that is ignorant. Educate me how a team mascot name that describes a perceived racial description or identity of a group of people is different.

What about the Chicago Cripples and a picture of a guy in a wheelchair for the logo?

I would be Ok if the team was renamed to the Washington Braves, or Washington Warriors or any type of word that is not a racial derogatory description.

You are correct the world is not perfect. We can't go back in time and correct past grievances but we can honor Native Americans right now by removing a word that had been used in a derogatory way towards them. The rest of your argument is a pure cop out.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

And racist George Preston Marshall named his team Redskins to honor a Choctaw chief? Is that what you are saying?

Before my time but I am aware of all those things. So you are in agreement with me or you just wanted to add to my point?

I wanted to add to your point and that I think calling a Native American a Redskin would be derogatory, just as it is for calling a black the N word, or calling an Italian a dago, wop or guinea. Repeat for any derogatory term for any other race or nationality. If Redskin carries the same notion as the N word, ######, Spic, Chink, etc, then it is highly offensive. I think the problem is it has been in use for the Washington football team and the Cleveland Indians and Atlanta Braves for such a long and I don't think that most people think of it as being a derogatory insult the say way they would as calling someone the N word, Chink, etc. But that doesn't make it ok either. Were these Indian themed teams named as an insult to Native Americans or were they named so for other reasons out of ignorance, much like Sambo's, Little Brown Koko etc? Again, ignorance doesn't make it right. Where a term insults a specific race or group of people it shouldn't be used as a team name. I admit that I don't have any background knowledge about the naming of the Redskins, Indians and Braves and I certainly see how it is offensive to some. Perhaps to some degree there hasn't been as much of an uproar about it since it's a smaller group than blacks etc, but this isn't justification either.

[SMOKE 1,426]

If you sue and get paid, I want my cut. That's all I'm saying.

i'm good with that.

[deleted-05292014 331]

I think your points are valid to an extent, but I also don't believe that the team name Washington Redskins is any longer representative of racism. Much like African Americans often use the dreaded N word as a term of affection, taking old racist names and symbols and turning the usage and meanings around can take the intended denigration and pain right out of them.

Yes but there have been Native American groups that have come forward and have said they find it offensive. I don't use the N word, some do. I don't want to get into that rabbit hole of a debate on here.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Why isn't it the same? Maybe I'm the one that is ignorant. Educate me how a team mascot name that describes a perceived racial description or identity of a group of people is different.

What about the Chicago Cripples and a picture of a guy in a wheelchair for the logo?

I would be Ok if the team was renamed to the Washington Braves, or Washington Warriors or any type of word that is not a racial derogatory description.

You are correct the world is not perfect. We can't go back in time and correct past grievances but we can honor Native Americans right now by removing a word that had been used in a derogatory way towards them. The rest of your argument is a pure cop out.

They are not the the same in meaning. If you were to name a team the Blackskins or Whiteskins, that would not carry the same connotation as a team called the N*****s.

I don't view it as dishonoring or insulting Native Americans by calling the football team the Redskins. For someone to make that leap as it pertains to the team in the year 2014, they would have to reach very far to do so.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Yes but there have been Native American groups that have come forward and have said they find it offensive. I don't use the N word, some do. I don't want to get into that rabbit hole of a debate on here.

I had to fight that one out my first year here. The cool thing about the folks you're talking to is at least they're open minded enough to see your point and actually have a conversation about it. If any of these guys wanted to talk about it, I'd be more than willing have that discussion. But I was unlucky enough to have it with the Usual Suspects. And it didn't end well....

[deleted-05292014 331]

I wanted to add to your point and that I think calling a Native American a Redskin would be derogatory, just as it is for calling a black the N word, or calling an Italian a dago, wop or guinea. Repeat for any derogatory term for any other race or nationality. If Redskin carries the same notion as the N word, ######, Spic, Chink, etc, then it is highly offensive. I think the problem is it has been in use for the Washington football team and the Cleveland Indians and Atlanta Braves for such a long and I don't think that most people think of it as being a derogatory insult the say way they would as calling someone the N word, Chink, etc. But that doesn't make it ok either. Were these Indian themed teams named as an insult to Native Americans or were they named so for other reasons out of ignorance, much like Sambo's, Little Brown Koko etc? Again, ignorance doesn't make it right. Where a term insults a specific race or group of people it shouldn't be used as a team name. I admit that I don't have any background knowledge about the naming of the Redskins, Indians and Braves and I certainly see how it is offensive to some. Perhaps to some degree there hasn't been as much of an uproar about it since it's a smaller group than blacks etc, but this isn't justification either.

Ok I think we are in agreement then. My only point of difference is that I hear all the time folks compare the Kc Chiefs or Atlanta Braves or Chicago Blackhawks but those aren't racial slurs. Driving into work I usually listen to Mike and Mike on ESPN radio and that's the argument they were making. They also are comparing apples and oranges.

I think people are desensitized to the slur bc #1 not a lot of Native Americans around and #2 it's been at least a couple hundred of years since the last Indian wars.