Neil DeGrasse Tyson reveals age of Earth, creationists’ heads collectively explode

[GandD 5,966]

how many people in this country use the bible as their main point of reference to support or reject a scientific point? how many of those same people know the actual history of the content of that bible, how it came to be? how many people actually ponder how the lies of religious authority, told over time, have shaped our ability to progress? i think time needs to be spent on these matters wherever possible.

We should make a show. "Why religion sucks; the history of death and ignorance committed under the false pretense of piousness"

[decocker 7,198]

We should make a show. "Why religion sucks; the history of death and ignorance committed under the false pretense of piousness"

yes! we'll call it 'church on sunday'

[JohnR! 5,495]

Lets say Galileo. Part of his story includes the church imprisonment as a result of his scientific discoveries and conclusions. Now, if i was writing it, I would of course include it as it shows the dangers of ignorance in the face of progress. But I'm really more interested in the how and why of his discoveries and conclusions. The freakin' guy made his own lens and telescope for god's sake. If I miss that because I have to hear about how the church was at an impass and struggling to maintain order or the internal politics of the religious establishment that led to blah blah blah I'd be pissed. Religion has historically impeded and in some cases aided scientific discovery.

I dunno, I guess the nuts and bolts of the discoveries interest me more and I feel like I'm getting short changed with this new series. They're not expanding enough on specifics of why and how for my taste. There's so much knowledge to be had and its getting trimmed down because I gotta hear a 20 minute cartoon about Giordano Bruno and his troubles with the Catholic church. 5 minutes would have been plenty.

However, how can you tell the story of Galileo and explain why he has to make his own lens and telescope? How can you explain why his findings had to remain out of the public knowledge for such a long time? You can't dissociate the historical context in which it all happened.

I for one, believe they should be exposing the church for all the ignorance and swill it dispenses to its flock as if it were real, possible or even factual. We have an obligation to our kids to show them that which we can prove, and show them the method by which discoveries and conclusions are reached. We have an obligation to our kids to instill scientific curiosity in them. We have an obligation to our kids to help them develop their brains to their full potential.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Gegel

[GandD 5,966]

However, how can you tell the story of Galileo and explain why he has to make his own lens and telescope? How can you explain why his findings had to remain out of the public knowledge for such a long time? You can't dissociate the historical context in which it all happened.

I for one, believe they should be exposing the church for all the ignorance and swill it dispenses to its flock as if it were real, possible or even factual. We have an obligation to our kids to show them that which we can prove, and show them the method by which discoveries and conclusions are reached. We have an obligation to our kids to instill scientific curiosity in them. We have an obligation to our kids to help them develop their brains to their full potential.

I think you guys are putting me on the other side just because no one else seems to be touching it. I'm on the same side as you guys, I just don't think half the show should be reminding us about historical failings that impeded science.

Galileo flourished scientifically even when it was heavily discouraged. Humans will explore, there's no ending that. Should it be more encouraged? I think so. But a flat out "war" on religion will only end badly for science as it always has. You have to give people a reason to consider findings without insulting them. Baby steps I think.......unfortunately.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Neil rawks.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Neil rawks.

[decocker 7,198]

I think you guys are putting me on the other side just because no one else seems to be touching it. I'm on the same side as you guys, I just don't think half the show should be reminding us about historical failings that impeded science.

Galileo flourished scientifically even when it was heavily discouraged. Humans will explore, there's no ending that. Should it be more encouraged? I think so. But a flat out "war" on religion will only end badly for science as it always has. You have to give people a reason to consider findings without insulting them. Baby steps I think.......unfortunately.

i'm not intending to put you on the other side. i do tend to get defensive about my lack of religious belief, because that lack of belief was very hard earned. all i hear is how persecuted christians are in this country (mostly from fundies) and quite frankly i'm tired of playing sensitive so others can feel comfortable in their religious choice.

of course, it's much easier for me to be insensitive to religious people in an internet forum than say, at a major family gathering or in the work place..

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I think you guys are putting me on the other side just because no one else seems to be touching it. I'm on the same side as you guys, I just don't think half the show should be reminding us about historical failings that impeded science.

Galileo flourished scientifically even when it was heavily discouraged. Humans will explore, there's no ending that. Should it be more encouraged? I think so. But a flat out "war" on religion will only end badly for science as it always has. You have to give people a reason to consider findings without insulting them. Baby steps I think.......unfortunately.

Science is only one approach to understanding the universe. Science lacks an explanation for many phenomena experienced by humans, and some other approaches offer an explanation of their own for those. Pragmatically speaking, whatever works, works. Because one group of people clings to one set of beliefs, does not make them wrong, it just makes them different. Newtonian physics does not explain the way things act in the minuscule, but does a fairly good job of explaining what most humans encounter in their daily lives. However Newtonian Physics alone would have not produced many of the products we use in our modern, daily life. I am almost certain that much of what we consider the culmination of all science and truth today, will be eventually dismissed as ancient superstition someday. We can only hope our simpleminded ways will not cause future generations to fail to see the significant strides we have made thus far to understand the world around us.

[GandD 5,966]

i'm not intending to put you on the other side. i do tend to get defensive about my lack of religious belief, because that lack of belief was very hard earned. all i hear is how persecuted christians are in this country (mostly from fundies) and quite frankly i'm tired of playing sensitive so others can feel comfortable in their religious choice.

of course, it's much easier for me to be insensitive to religious people in an internet forum than say, at a major family gathering or in the work place..

Ain't that the truth.

It becomes difficult when very sensible people are also quite religious. People do tend to morph religion to suit their needs in little ways here an there. 1/3 believe in a God guided evolution. This of course can't be disproved so, knock yourselves out.

[JohnR! 5,495]

I think you guys are putting me on the other side just because no one else seems to be touching it. I'm on the same side as you guys, I just don't think half the show should be reminding us about historical failings that impeded science.

Galileo flourished scientifically even when it was heavily discouraged. Humans will explore, there's no ending that. Should it be more encouraged? I think so. But a flat out "war" on religion will only end badly for science as it always has. You have to give people a reason to consider findings without insulting them. Baby steps I think.......unfortunately.

By all means, I am not putting you on the other side. I am just playing devil's advocate... I do see your point but if we all agreed it wouldn't be as much fun....

[JohnR! 5,495]

i'm not intending to put you on the other side. i do tend to get defensive about my lack of religious belief, because that lack of belief was very hard earned. all i hear is how persecuted christians are in this country (mostly from fundies) and quite frankly i'm tired of playing sensitive so others can feel comfortable in their religious choice.

of course, it's much easier for me to be insensitive to religious people in an internet forum than say, at a major family gathering or in the work place..

You're officially invited to our next Thanksgiving dinner. My entire family will embrace your point of view.... However, at the work place I do not discuss religion either. I don't have to. You would know where I stand if you were to walk into my office.

[decocker 7,198]

It becomes difficult when very sensible people are also quite religious. People do tend to morph religion to suit their needs in little ways here an there. 1/3 believe in a God guided evolution. This of course can't be disproved so, knock yourselves out.

it's odd, i've sort of watched my parents' baptist faith evolve over the past 28 years into something that sometimes i don't even recognize as christianity, certainly not baptist, and i want to show them how far they've come away from what they still cling to..in a very remote and basic way. if that makes sense, it's hard to explain.

[GandD 5,966]

Science is only one approach to understanding the universe. Science lacks an explanation for many phenomena experienced by humans, and some other approaches offer an explanation of their own for those. Pragmatically speaking, whatever works, works. Because one group of people clings to one set of beliefs, does not make them wrong, it just makes them different. Newtonian physics does not explain the way things act in the minuscule, but does a fairly good job of explaining what most humans encounter in their daily lives. However Newtonian Physics alone would have not produced many of the products we use in our modern, daily life. I am almost certain that much of what we consider the culmination of all science and truth today, will be eventually dismissed as ancient superstition someday. We can only hope our simpleminded ways will not cause future generations to fail to see the significant strides we have made thus far to understand the world around us.

I guess when I think of "science" its the methodology more than the field. Physics is just one area. There's biology, astronomy, anatomy, blah blah blah. A "scientist" uses the scientific method, its really that simple. I use it for everyday troubleshooting everyday just like everyone else. I've also never understood the whole "science doesn't explain everything." Of course it doesn't and it probably never will. There's this thing with humans that need a reason or explanation of everything around them. If we can't figure it out, it just means we haven't figured it out yet. Its not magic, nothing is. There's always a reason and I don't see the point of assigning one in light of discovering what it is.

On another level, people get lots of fulfillment from spirituality. I guess I'm just missing that gene because I never had the need or the feeling "something was missing." But that's just me and it try to keep it in context which is a battle in itself sometimes. Maybe when I get older, who knows......

[decocker 7,198]

You're officially invited to our next Thanksgiving dinner. My entire family will embrace your point of view.... However, at the work place I do not discuss religion either. I don't have to. You would know where I stand if you were to walk into my office.

lol. my extended family embraces me because i don't talk about religion at all. there's no point in wasting my breath.

as for the workplace, i got jokes. i was asked about what i was giving up for lent, and i said god. no applause.

[GandD 5,966]

it's odd, i've sort of watched my parents' baptist faith evolve over the past 28 years into something that sometimes i don't even recognize as christianity, certainly not baptist, and i want to show them how far they've come away from what they still cling to..in a very remote and basic way. if that makes sense, it's hard to explain.

It does make sense. Its not black and white and religious people definitely aren't stupid. Hard to see from another's perspective when you consider the millions of events that have occurred in their life to form said perspective. People are super complicated.