Top Figures in Conservative Movement Spreading Crazy Lie That Faith in God Ended Slavery

[GandD 5,966]

Not too long ago, I read commentary by an historian who said that basically, the South never fully accepted the conditions of surrender and that in a collective conscience kind of way, refuse to this day, to acknowledge that they lost. That's why there is this almost obsessive focus on state sovereignty and an animosity towards the federal government.

Very true.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Very true.

"I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender. They have him pulling a wagon up in Kansas I bet." - Lone Watie (The Outlaw Josie Wales)

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Boy did you really prove me wrong .. I stand corrected.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

that's because the very few people you are talking about, I am assuming you include yourself as well, don't have a strong grasp with reality or firm understanding of American history

We can take the words right out of the confederacy virtual mouth with their own documents as to why they were seceding.

Mississippi:

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

Texas:

http://www.lsjunction.com/docs/secesson.htm

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

Do I need to continue Nature Boy? You are very much entitled to your own opinion, no matter how ignorant of the facts it is, but you are not entitled to re-write history to fit your own agenda.

Thank you for allowing me to have my opinion. I am sure it will not be much longer before the left takes that away from me also.

[decocker 7,198]

Boy did you really prove me wrong .. I stand corrected.

good job, admitting defeat is the first step. now hand over your opinion..

[deleted-05292014 331]

Not too long ago, I read commentary by an historian who said that basically, the South never fully accepted the conditions of surrender and that in a collective conscience kind of way, refuse to this day, to acknowledge that they lost. That's why there is this almost obsessive focus on state sovereignty and an animosity towards the federal government. The great irony is that the South was initially upset that the feds were disregarding their right of ownership of slaves who had escaped to the north. They wanted the federal government to enforce upon the north, their deed of property over their slaves who ran away. It was the North that basically told them to go phuk themselves, that they had different laws (state sovereignty). Kind of funny how it got twisted the other way around.

It's really amazing that so many posters don't know or fully understand what the Civil War was really about, and seem content in their ignorance of history. I attended public school in Arizona - not exactly a bastion of liberally-minded educators, and from the very first time we were taught about the Civil War, we were told that it was over slavery, not state's rights.

Same here, I don't recall in my course of studying in college this argument about the Civil War being solely about States rights. I could be wrong but I think this is a fairly new revisionist look at the Civil War and it is only coming out of the extreme right wing camp which I always find suspicious. What is the end game with the argument? That "good ol' White boys" would never die for Black slaves, for or against? Most of the cockamanie junk that comes from the right doesn't make sense to me like Cliven Bundy and his Posse Comitatus argument that the sheriff is the law of the land and not the Federal government. These milita groups (aka domestic terrorist) don't have government issued ids, or drive with license plates (ie: timothy mcveigh and terry nichols). When they deny that the Federal government has any rights over them/property. they not only have gone off Ozzys Crazy train, they've pulled up the tracks and jumped off the cliff with hostages. You're right it's like we're still fighting the Civil War. All of this ####### comes directly from the Civil War - I wish these folks would get over it. The confederacy lost. They put up a valiant effort but in the end got their tails whipped and the Union was better for it.

One of my favorite documentaries is Ken Burns Civil War. In it there are countless letters that I recall by soldiers in the North who talked about how inhumane the institution of slavery was and that it was a worthy cause to fight and die for to end. Sure maybe there were some soldiers that didn't care one way or the other about slavery - perhaps like some soldiers today they were just following orders and didn't have any personal convictions one way or the other I don't know.

Also the arguments people make about Lincoln and how he originally felt about slavery as it pertained to preserving the Union, Lincoln himself like much of the nation evolved. People can change. Obama changed on his position of gay marriage, my position changed on that too. There is nothing wrong with evolving and changing your view points in life on any subject. If I believed in some of the same things I did when I was in my 20s when I was mad at the world for everything I would have never grown in character.

They say the older you get the more conservative you become, well if I ever turn into a right winger I give any of you permission to put a bullet in my noggin!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

good job, admitting defeat is the first step. now hand over your opinion..

If you want his opinion, you should give it to him.

[GandD 5,966]

Thank you for allowing me to have my opinion. I am sure it will not be much longer before the left takes that away from me also.

Hyperbole.

[Danno 1,228]

Same here, I don't recall in my course of studying in college this argument about the Civil War being solely about States rights. I could be wrong but I think this is a fairly new revisionist look at the Civil War and it is only coming out of the extreme right wing camp which I always find suspicious. What is the end game with the argument? That "good ol' White boys" would never die for Black slaves, for or against? Most of the cockamanie junk that comes from the right doesn't make sense to me like Cliven Bundy and his Posse Comitatus argument that the sheriff is the law of the land and not the Federal government. These milita groups (aka domestic terrorist) don't have government issued ids, or drive with license plates (ie: timothy mcveigh and terry nichols). When they deny that the Federal government has any rights over them/property. they not only have gone off Ozzys Crazy train, they've pulled up the tracks and jumped off the cliff with hostages. You're right it's like we're still fighting the Civil War. All of this ####### comes directly from the Civil War - I wish these folks would get over it. The confederacy lost. They put up a valiant effort but in the end got their tails whipped and the Union was better for it.

One of my favorite documentaries is Ken Burns Civil War. In it there are countless letters that I recall by soldiers in the North who talked about how inhumane the institution of slavery was and that it was a worthy cause to fight and die for to end. Sure maybe there were some soldiers that didn't care one way or the other about slavery - perhaps like some soldiers today they were just following orders and didn't have any personal convictions one way or the other I don't know.

Also the arguments people make about Lincoln and how he originally felt about slavery as it pertained to preserving the Union, Lincoln himself like much of the nation evolved. People can change. Obama changed on his position of gay marriage, my position changed on that too. There is nothing wrong with evolving and changing your view points in life on any subject. If I believed in some of the same things I did when I was in my 20s when I was mad at the world for everything I would have never grown in character.

They say the older you get the more conservative you become, well if I ever turn into a right winger I give any of you permission to put a bullet in my noggin!

After every War we always like to attach a great moral cause to justify the loses.

The Civil war is perhaps the best example of that we have.

While Slavery or actually the Spread of slavery was a corner stone it was more complicated than the 5th grade history lesson.

Let us look to the man who held the power of war in his hand and see what he said on the matter.

(Just weeks before issuing the emancipation proclamation)

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free.^[22]

-How do you start a war over slavery and then turn right around and say "it's not as important as ending the war'?

-IN the beginning slaves in captured territory were not even freed.

-The Republican party platform only called to the containment of slavery.

-One union Officer formed military units of Black recruits, Abe told him to disband them.

[decocker 7,198]

reading comprehension seems to be the biggest problem 'round these parts.

[Danno 1,228]

reading comprehension seems to be the biggest problem 'round these parts.

Expressing a coherent opinion containing more than one sentence is also a notable trend.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Expressing a coherent opinion containing more than one sentence is also a notable trend.

Indeed. You should try that sometime. You got the multi-sentence thing down pat but the coherency is sorely lacking.

[Danno 1,228]

Indeed. You should try that sometime. You got the multi-sentence thing down pat but the coherency is sorely lacking.

I will accept your critique and try to do better.

Care to address Lincoln's remarks?

[GandD 5,966]

I will accept your critique and try to do better.

Care to address Lincoln's remarks?

You play the game fairly well, I will give you that.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

good job, admitting defeat is the first step. now hand over your opinion..

I learnt arguing with a woman is like trying to knock down Mt Everest with a ice pick. You never gonna win

Hyperbole.

In here.. How dare you.. Would never be allowed