CFO and the AOS

[Jeff @ Missy 9]

I totally understand the desire for keeping that undisclosed right now. Too bad he lives in one of the less than fair states. A person can rest a lot easier when they live in a state that actually has fair laws in the event a marriage falls apart.

One story I heard were that the Filipina ended up with the house the sponsor had before they got married

[novedsac 355]

One story I heard were that the Filipina ended up with the house the sponsor had before they got married

Would need to know the circumstances for that one.

For friend and his wife:

How long have your friend and his girl been married?

Do they have children together?

Does she have children of her own?

Does she have any medical circumstances that require special needs?

Did she contribute any equity towards the purchase of the home they live in now, or any material improvements in the home since marriage?

She could quit her job today, but she's already demonstrated the capacity and willingness to work and with her green card, the expectation in any divorce settlement would be that she does work to support herself (either for partial or full support, depending upon the circumstances).

[Caryh 5,206]

One story I heard were that the Filipina ended up with the house the sponsor had before they got married

when you hear of those totally unbalanced results like that, its either just an urban legend, or else one had a good lawyer and the other went in thinking they knew it all and represented themselves. Never represent yourself in a contested divorce.

[Jeff @ Missy 9]

Would need to know the circumstances for that one.

For friend and his wife:

How long have your friend and his girl been married?

Do they have children together?

Does she have children of her own?

Does she have any medical circumstances that require special needs?

Did she contribute any equity towards the purchase of the home they live in now, or any material improvements in the home since marriage?

She could quit her job today, but she's already demonstrated the capacity and willingness to work and with her green card, the expectation in any divorce settlement would be that she does work to support herself (either for partial or full support, depending upon the circumstances).

15mo, and no to all other.

She actually makes more money than the sponsor at the moment

[Jeff @ Missy 9]

when you hear of those totally unbalanced results like that, its either just an urban legend, or else one had a good lawyer and the other went in thinking they knew it all and represented themselves. Never represent yourself in a contested divorce.

Exactly what I thought but the information was from someone he knew who knew the circumstances. I believe that most all states have the pre existing assets that go to whoever had them before marriage but who knows. Now under Philippine law everything is 50-50 regardless and this is something to consider for someone who does not have a PI prenup before the marriage, if he went there to live that is.

Biggest threat though is the darn 864. 30yrs would be almost 440k at todays level. Like some replies it would be hard to be successful in getting that but thats a really big black cloud hanging over his head and if he does stay with her he will always be a yes man to not upset her.

Get this...she read the news about the visa waiver for the PI and she already hit him up about bringing family over, haha. I told him that it is a hoax. Hopefully she is not reading this...

I told him he would need to sign a few more AOS's to get them over, go for it!

So the ROC can or cannot be a time to use a little levarage? He told me just an hr ago that she will NOT go back anytime soon. She knows the game for sure

[Al422 221]

He really should take this to a lawyer. One thing I thought of was to sue for American annulment based on marriage fraud. A successful annulment makes their marriage void ab initio, which could then be used to revoke her green card since legally the marriage never happened.

Yes it is nasty, but sometimes you fight fire with fire.

[Jeff @ Missy 9]

He really should take this to a lawyer. One thing I thought of was to sue for American annulment based on marriage fraud. A successful annulment makes their marriage void ab initio, which could then be used to revoke her green card since legally the marriage never happened.

Yes it is nasty, but sometimes you fight fire with fire.

Yes but would this not all be hearsay as there is nothing documented? It is pretty clear to me what her intentions are and her ultimate goal. Maybe a keylogger would be appropriate but probably not such a legal thing to do but then can make a clear decision. The goal of many are to get ahead and if you step on a few toes along the way but threats of the 864 and the leverage it can bring is not the way to do it.

I have mentioned to him to sell his house as a possibility with the intention of moving to the Philippines. At this point he would not have a domicile in the USA anymore. He has spent a fare amount of time there so is not to much of a bad thing, could be good. That would sure level the playing field to keep the relationship going if that is what he chooses but to stay here and ignore what is developing is really not good.

What particularly makes me a bit angry is she is stirring up my wife, had her crying. I do not need this either and if I get defensive look out.

I will give advice on what I have read here and let him decide his fate.

[novedsac 355]

15mo, and no to all other.

She actually makes more money than the sponsor at the moment

Really ?

What is he afraid of ?

There's certainly no reason to be afraid of going through a divorce.

From what you have written, she has NO basis for any long-term support and if her income is greater than his then she won't garner any temporary or short-term support either. Their marriage hasn't lasted long enough for there to be any appreciable marital assets and she has no basis for a claim on pre-marital assets.

Since she has no basis for spousal support, she would find suing for such support under I-864 to be nearly impossible.

Indeed, I'd be willing to bet that the advice she is getting is to stay with the guy, at least through ROC, if not a few more years, perhaps having a kid or two along the way - because right now her chances of getting any money/assets in a divorce is not good at all.

Best shot she has, really, is to scare the bejesus out of him in the hopes that he'll agree to a settlement; perhaps a cash out of 100k sounds better than a commitment of up to 440k ? But given the information you've provided, the onus of the argument is upon her and he should call her bluff and defend any argument she may make. He needs a decent attorney.

Annulment could be a very tricky and expensive option. Many states only allow annulment for fraud or lack of capacity to marry to begin with. Fraud needs to be direct proof, not hearsay, and demonstrating the lack of authenticity of an email or chat conversation would be trivial for even a third year law student. This is a long, hard, expensive road with much less chance of success than her getting any support based on the I-864.

Your friend needs to man up, consult a decent attorney, proceed with the divorce and forget about her after she has left the home.

[Jeff @ Missy 9]

Really ?

What is he afraid of ?

There's certainly no reason to be afraid of going through a divorce.

From what you have written, she has NO basis for any long-term support and if her income is greater than his then she won't garner any temporary or short-term support either. Their marriage hasn't lasted long enough for there to be any appreciable marital assets and she has no basis for a claim on pre-marital assets.

Since she has no basis for spousal support, she would find suing for such support under I-864 to be nearly impossible.

Indeed, I'd be willing to bet that the advice she is getting is to stay with the guy, at least through ROC, if not a few more years, perhaps having a kid or two along the way - because right now her chances of getting any money/assets in a divorce is not good at all.

Best shot she has, really, is to scare the bejesus out of him in the hopes that he'll agree to a settlement; perhaps a cash out of 100k sounds better than a commitment of up to 440k ? But given the information you've provided, the onus of the argument is upon her and he should call her bluff and defend any argument she may make. He needs a decent attorney.

Annulment could be a very tricky and expensive option. Many states only allow annulment for fraud or lack of capacity to marry to begin with. Fraud needs to be direct proof, not hearsay, and demonstrating the lack of authenticity of an email or chat conversation would be trivial for even a third year law student. This is a long, hard, expensive road with much less chance of success than her getting any support based on the I-864.

Your friend needs to man up, consult a decent attorney, proceed with the divorce and forget about her after she has left the home.

well, from NOLO.com

CAUTION

A sponsor in a marriage-based case remains legally obligated even after a divorce. Yes, a divorced immigrant spouse could decide to sit on a couch all day and sue the former spouse for support. The sponsor may wish to have the immigrant sign a separate contract agreeing not to do this, but it is not clear whether courts would enforce such a contract.

Divorce is the easy clean part. Maybe 6 times the salary in the PI with the AOS and get a few of them together they can share expenses, never work and find a new target to suck dry.

Yes a decent attorney for advice, dig a foxhole and wait for the mortars to come in.

[novedsac 355]

well, from NOLO.com

CAUTION

A sponsor in a marriage-based case remains legally obligated even after a divorce. Yes, a divorced immigrant spouse could decide to sit on a couch all day and sue the former spouse for support. The sponsor may wish to have the immigrant sign a separate contract agreeing not to do this, but it is not clear whether courts would enforce such a contract.

Divorce is the easy clean part. Maybe 6 times the salary in the PI with the AOS and get a few of them together they can share expenses, never work and find a new target to suck dry.

Yes a decent attorney for advice, dig a foxhole and wait for the mortars to come in.

In the context of a divorce, she's gonna have to demonstrate the need for support first.

Read up on the relevant case law, it's much more informative than a for-profit web site sponsored by lawyers. There isn't much case law out there, but there's enough to understand that she's got a very steep, very high mountain to climb; I haven't seen anyone in with her circumstances just be able to cash out on the basis of a I-864. If it were as easy as you allude, there'd be cases popping up left and right; there are not.

She's already demonstrated the legal capacity, capability and willingness to work, presumably at a wage sufficient to meet federal poverty guidelines. Whether it's enough to support her or not will be her problem.

Her mortars are barely gonna leave their firing tubes, assuming you haven't left out any crucial information.

[Caryh 5,206]

Exactly what I thought but the information was from someone he knew who knew the circumstances. I believe that most all states have the pre existing assets that go to whoever had them before marriage but who knows. Now under Philippine law everything is 50-50 regardless and this is something to consider for someone who does not have a PI prenup before the marriage, if he went there to live that is.

Biggest threat though is the darn 864. 30yrs would be almost 440k at todays level. Like some replies it would be hard to be successful in getting that but thats a really big black cloud hanging over his head and if he does stay with her he will always be a yes man to not upset her.

Get this...she read the news about the visa waiver for the PI and she already hit him up about bringing family over, haha. I told him that it is a hoax. Hopefully she is not reading this...

I told him he would need to sign a few more AOS's to get them over, go for it!

So the ROC can or cannot be a time to use a little levarage? He told me just an hr ago that she will NOT go back anytime soon. She knows the game for sure

There is no real leverage in the ROC. If he refuses to sign, she can divorce him and file on her own.

If she is making that kind of money, at or over 125% of poverty level, he would owe her no alimony based on the I-864. If he filed for divorce, and she quit her job in order to get it, the courts would surely see that as an attempt to get alimony when she's perfectly able to support herself over the poverty level. Every case I've seen on someone getting money based on the I-864, and there hasn't been many, income made by the immigrant is subtracted from the amount.

I'm fairly sure you're incorrect about the 50/50 split in the Philippines. In annulments, what each party owns separately is theirs to keep. Its only assets owned together that are split 50/50. So any property they purchase, would be 100% her's in a split because foreigners cannot own land there. He can, rather than buy, take out a long term lease on property though. He can inherit the property if she were to die before him, but he'd be required to sell the property at that point.

[Caryh 5,206]

In the context of a divorce, she's gonna have to demonstrate the need for support first.

Read up on the relevant case law, it's much more informative than a for-profit web site sponsored by lawyers. There isn't much case law out there, but there's enough to understand that she's got a very steep, very high mountain to climb; I haven't seen anyone in with her circumstances just be able to cash out on the basis of a I-864. If it were as easy as you allude, there'd be cases popping up left and right; there are not.

She's already demonstrated the legal capacity, capability and willingness to work, presumably at a wage sufficient to meet federal poverty guidelines. Whether it's enough to support her or not will be her problem.

Her mortars are barely gonna leave their firing tubes, assuming you haven't left out any crucial information.

What we don't know is where the OP's friend lives. The state in which the couple is being divorced has a huge affect on what she can get. But I agree with you, automatically getting 125% of the poverty level for life is not going to be an easy thing regardless of where they live. We also don't know her income level. But if she's above the 125%, and making more money than him, she'll get nothing, even if she suddenly chooses to quit her job in order not to work. The cases I have read, have required the immigrant to mitigate the damages. If they are unable to speak the language, and/or have young children at home, they can make a case for not working. But if they're working and quit when the divorce is filed, its easy to prove they have not made any attempt to mitigate the damages.

[Jeff @ Missy 9]

There is no real leverage in the ROC. If he refuses to sign, she can divorce him and file on her own.

If she is making that kind of money, at or over 125% of poverty level, he would owe her no alimony based on the I-864. If he filed for divorce, and she quit her job in order to get it, the courts would surely see that as an attempt to get alimony when she's perfectly able to support herself over the poverty level. Every case I've seen on someone getting money based on the I-864, and there hasn't been many, income made by the immigrant is subtracted from the amount.

I'm fairly sure you're incorrect about the 50/50 split in the Philippines. In annulments, what each party owns separately is theirs to keep. Its only assets owned together that are split 50/50. So any property they purchase, would be 100% her's in a split because foreigners cannot own land there. He can, rather than buy, take out a long term lease on property though. He can inherit the property if she were to die before him, but he'd be required to sell the property at that point.

She has only this month started 5 days a week at min wage, so 400 a week lets say, over the 125% level yes. Maybe thats the best thing, divorce while she is making her maximum month salary. I think if she quit though she could then sue for the support, needs the 40 quarters first remember and no guarantees in this employment market. Staying with her friends and not working, no commute, no taxes possibly....

Seems like many are really not sure about the implications of the 864. My friend had no idea. Myself when I filled out the form it was 6 months or more before I had to turn it in and I never reread mine either.

Would be interesting to hear from some of the old VJ'ers whose marriage has fallen apart but I think they would rather not do so.

[Caryh 5,206]

She has only this month started 5 days a week at min wage, so 400 a week lets say, over the 125% level yes. Maybe thats the best thing, divorce while she is making her maximum month salary. I think if she quit though she could then sue for the support, needs the 40 quarters first remember and no guarantees in this employment market. Staying with her friends and not working, no commute, no taxes possibly....

Seems like many are really not sure about the implications of the 864. My friend had no idea. Myself when I filled out the form it was 6 months or more before I had to turn it in and I never reread mine either.

Would be interesting to hear from some of the old VJ'ers whose marriage has fallen apart but I think they would rather not do so.

You are truly over worrying about the 864. If a person quits a job to gain benefits in a divorce, they don't get those benefits. Even a first year law student could fight that type of tactic. You should read some of the cases where its been used. It certainly isn't a given they automatically get a guaranteed 125% of poverty level. There hasn't been many cases that have succeeded, but there are some. I was reading one case where the USC argued she could work so he need not pay, the court ruling was it was up to the USC to prove she could work, which he failed to do because the immigrant did not speak English and had a young child to care for. If she quits and he argues she can work, she was working making over 125% poverty, but she quit when the divorce was filed. Then he's proved she intentionally attempted to increase damages. Of course he should get his hands on some pay stubs to prove she's working.

[Jeff @ Missy 9]

Hmm, I have not researched past cases. Can an immigrant get unemployment? All depends what her true intentions are but if she say did not show up for work for 3 days without calling or no doctors slip she would be fired, than the support would come into play. I will do some searching...