China on course to become 'world's most Christian nation' within 15 years

[Danno 1,228]

Atheism is not a thing, it's the absence of belief. I always find it odd that anyone would proselytize for atheism. People are free to believe what they want, and free not to believe in anything if they so choose. What I do not need is someone else's religious morality to infringe on mine. Keep your religious morality to yourself, thanks all the same.

This is a game you play you that only makes since to those not thinking.

-Your disbelieve IS a belief in the same way a person who don't not believe that man-made global warming is happening also is taking a stand or position.

-Whether your morals come from religion or not is meaningless, you (just like everyone else) seeks to impose their morals on others.

If not you would not support one poverty program which takes from some to give to others in need..... using your moral compass to decide who are those in need and who should pay.

NEWS FLASH: this is how societies EVERY WHERE and for all time organize themselves.... common morals.

Where they come from is meaningless.

If we both vote for the same law: (Say an age of consent law) where we came to our understanding of when it is moral or acceptable for a kid to have sex is meaningless.

You are striving for a society that has never existed as we all have things we find immoral.... be it having sex with strange men in front of your kids or recycling laws.

Now some laws around the world are just religious laws....if we forced people to go to temple or church.... we don't have those type of laws. Our laws are based on community standards which are tied to religion, philosophic ideas tradition etc.

So lets recap.

-You are a person who stands on faith when it comes to questions of God.

-You rightly impose your morals on others through the system we have established.

[Danno 1,228]

Suppressing citizens is not an example of freedom to believe or not to believe and a civilization that may flow from that. You may be surprised by this Danno, but it's only relatively recently that science and technology and advancement in education have led to the realisation that it is possible to explain how the universe works without a deity. This is all new territory that needs to be explored.

By all means but lets not assume "exploration" is proof.

Nor that the absence of Faith in God....... is the absence of Faith in something.

"The fundamental difference between our religion and theirs is that theirs always tells them what they want to hear,"

AC

[Karee 4,191]

What you need to do is look at chinas growth... the time line and see how they did when Religion was more brutally suppressed.

I think you will find their prosperity came after that.

Communist in their attempt to build your perfect society.... free from Religion killed hundreds of millions of people.

Do you also celebrate Hitler's handy work too?

I keep asking for folks like you to show us the great civilizations based on Atheism so we might know what the flower looks like in bloom, the only thing we have seen are rivers of blood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM3CiH1FE9E

Religion is awesome!

[Penny Lane 8,159]

This is a game you play you that only makes since to those not thinking.

[Peikko 1,575]

This is a game you play you that only makes since to those not thinking.

-Your disbelieve IS a belief in the same way a person who don't not believe that man-made global warming is happening also is taking a stand or position.

-Whether your morals come from religion or not is meaningless, you (just like everyone else) seeks to impose their morals on others.

If not you would not support one poverty program which takes from some to give to others in need..... using your moral compass to decide who are those in need and who should pay.

NEWS FLASH: this is how societies EVERY WHERE and for all time organize themselves.... common morals.

Where they come from is meaningless.

If we both vote for the same law: (Say an age of consent law) where we came to our understanding of when it is moral or acceptable for a kid to have sex is meaningless.

You are striving for a society that has never existed as we all have things we find immoral.... be it having sex with strange men in front of your kids or recycling laws.

Now some laws around the world are just religious laws....if we forced people to go to temple or church.... we don't have those type of laws. Our laws are based on community standards which are tied to religion, philosophic ideas tradition etc.

So lets recap.

-You are a person who stands on faith when it comes to questions of God.

-You rightly impose your morals on others through the system we have established.

It's not a game, words have meanings. Atheism has a very specific meaning, it's the lack of belief in a deity. Because I lack belief in a deity does not mean I have replaced that non belief with a belief in atheism. That makes no sense, I can't believe in an absence of belief in a deity, that's not a belief system. So, it's not a game but it is a question of comprehension, you need to understand the terminology you use, I do.

Your understanding of morality is equally flawed. The principal of the universal declaration of human rights is an easy to understand moral framework and does not require a belief in any external deity to ensure it's validity. Once you understand this, all your confusion will clear up instantly. It's not imposed on me or anyone else, it's an agreement to uphold basic principals of freedom and equality, an agreement, not an imposition. A religious based moral framework typically delves into areas that are of no business to anyone outside of a certain curtain twitching nosiness. I know you get hung up on this but I have no idea why, it's not that difficult of a concept.

[Peikko 1,575]

By all means but lets not assume "exploration" is proof.

Nor that the absence of Faith in God....... is the absence of Faith in something.

"The fundamental difference between our religion and theirs is that theirs always tells them what they want to hear,"

AC

Proof? Proof of what? Again, atheism is the absence of belief in a deity. It does not create a vacuum that needs to be filled, no proof of atheism is required. I do not have a belief in a god that cares for the human race and is interested in the day to day machinations of all the billions of individuals that have been born, are alive today and may be born into the future. Science can explain my day to day world and the known universe without needing to attach an x factor to be filled by some kind of all powerful, all seeing, all knowing being. It's not required for any mathematical explanation, and indeed putting in an 'x' factor in the mathematical models we have produced to map our world would render these mathematical models meaningless. I can't explain it any more, it requires no more explanation. I haven't put my faith into anything, I will not be saved, my spirit will not exist beyond my life span. That's it, a done deal and I am fine with that.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

There are a lot of Christians in China today who meet in private homes and offices for fellowship. There are a few churches, but not many. The Chinese government has a limited tolerance to these meetings and keeps a watchful eye to make sure they do not become politically radicalized. For now, Chinese Christians have more freedom in China than what American Christians do in America.

Edited April 21, 2014 by ExExpat

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

There are a lot of Christians in China today who meet in private homes and offices for fellowship. There are a few churches, but not many. The Chinese government has a limited tolerance to these meetings and keeps a watchful eye to make sure they do not become politically radicalized. For now, Chinese Christians have more freedom in China than what American Christians do in America.

Elaborate please. I do need a good laugh.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

Elaborate please. I do need a good laugh.

I lived and worked in China for six years and have no need to elaborate to someone of your extreme and radical ignorance. If you want to learn about something, first try asking questions of someone who may know rather that watching your late night talk shows for your political feed. Your only purpose for posting in this forum is to feed your forever hungry narcissism.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I lived and worked in China for six years and have no need to elaborate to someone of your extreme and radical ignorance. If you want to learn about something, first try asking questions of someone who may know rather that watching your late night talk shows for your political feed. Your only purpose for posting in this forum is to feed your forever hungry narcissism.

My theory is that you come back with that lame response because you don't really have an answer. But I might be wrong. So here's a direct question: What specific religious freedoms do Chinese Christians in China enjoy that American Christians in America lack? A list would be dandy. Thanks.

[Sousuke 1,214]

There are a lot of Christians in China today who meet in private homes and offices for fellowship. There are a few churches, but not many. The Chinese government has a limited tolerance to these meetings and keeps a watchful eye to make sure they do not become politically radicalized. For now, Chinese Christians have more freedom in China than what American Christians do in America.

So the red text seems in conflict with the blue text.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So the red text seems in conflict with the blue text.

I noticed that as well which is why I asked him to elaborate on the red sentence. He seemed offended. But now that I asked properly, we will get that long list of freedoms that Chinese Christians in China have over American Christians in America any moment now. I can't wait to learn just what freedoms American Christians in America lack that are enjoyed by Chinese Christians in China. This will be interesting.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

My theory is that you come back with that lame response because you don't really have an answer. But I might be wrong. So here's a direct question: What specific religious freedoms do Chinese Christians in China enjoy that American Christians in America lack? A list would be dandy. Thanks.

One of the most specific freedoms that have been denied American Christians in recent years is to freely practice their religion without fear of government suppression of their personal beliefs and freedoms. These days, the political police of America have moved to the private citizen groups who openly attack Christians from displaying anything Christian like in the workplace or objecting to certain lifestyles because their Christian faith objects to it.

Now, let me first state that I am a graduate student of Theology from a Christian University in the US. However, I am no longer a Christian, but I have great respect for all religions who practice their faith in a peaceful manner. It's a very difficult line to draw as to where religion and faith begin to intrude upon the personal freedoms of others, but it's easy to separate intolerance.

There are radical elements in any religion who attempt to force their point of view upon others. I strongly object to these behaviors. The believe as I do or your condemned sort of thing. The freedom to celebrate and worship in a peaceful way are the root and core of religion. Sadly, there are many who believe themselves to be enlightened and others to live in darkness.

While I worked in China, I was free to display a Christmas tree and decoration in my office. I did it to be festive, rather than represent a deep belief. I am prevented from doing that in many workplaces in the USA.

[Peikko 1,575]

One of the most specific freedoms that have been denied American Christians in recent years is to freely practice their religion without fear of government suppression of their personal beliefs and freedoms. These days, the political police of America have moved to the private citizen groups who openly attack Christians from displaying anything Christian like in the workplace or objecting to certain lifestyles because their Christian faith objects to it.

Now, let me first state that I am a graduate student of Theology from a Christian University in the US. However, I am no longer a Christian, but I have great respect for all religions who practice their faith in a peaceful manner. It's a very difficult line to draw as to where religion and faith begin to intrude upon the personal freedoms of others, but it's easy to separate intolerance.

There are radical elements in any religion who attempt to force their point of view upon others. I strongly object to these behaviors. The believe as I do or your condemned sort of thing. The freedom to celebrate and worship in a peaceful way are the root and core of religion. Sadly, there are many who believe themselves to be enlightened and others to live in darkness.

While I worked in China, I was free to display a Christmas tree and decoration in my office. I did it to be festive, rather than represent a deep belief. I am prevented from doing that in many workplaces in the USA.

I have no idea why you can't display your christmas tree in your workspace, unless there is some other issue that's not religious based. I am not a Christian and I am allowed to put up a christmas tree in my cubby. Weird.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

One of the most specific freedoms that have been denied American Christians in recent years is to freely practice their religion without fear of government suppression of their personal beliefs and freedoms. These days, the political police of America have moved to the private citizen groups who openly attack Christians from displaying anything Christian like in the workplace or objecting to certain lifestyles because their Christian faith objects to it.

Now, let me first state that I am a graduate student of Theology from a Christian University in the US. However, I am no longer a Christian, but I have great respect for all religions who practice their faith in a peaceful manner. It's a very difficult line to draw as to where religion and faith begin to intrude upon the personal freedoms of others, but it's easy to separate intolerance.

There are radical elements in any religion who attempt to force their point of view upon others. I strongly object to these behaviors. The believe as I do or your condemned sort of thing. The freedom to celebrate and worship in a peaceful way are the root and core of religion. Sadly, there are many who believe themselves to be enlightened and others to live in darkness.

While I worked in China, I was free to display a Christmas tree and decoration in my office. I did it to be festive, rather than represent a deep belief. I am prevented from doing that in many workplaces in the USA.

Okay, tin foil time. Nothing of substance. A Christmas tree in your office in China. That's your case.

I wouldn't bother to count the Christmas trees in my office building at Christmas time - there are just so many of them. And not a single worker that displayed one was fired by the employer or arrested or harassed by the government in any way, shape or form. Nor are the Muslims that go to their prayer in one of the available conference rooms when their duty calls. Nor are the Catholics that come to the office with that cross on their foreheads on Ash Wednesday. None of them fired. None of them in jail. None of them threatened. Nothing like that. I see people on street corners with "Jesus Loves You" signs and stuff like that all the time. None of them has ever been arrested for that as far as I know.

So unless Florida (and Tennessee and Ohio where I have also experienced this) do not belong to America or are somehow the rare exceptions among the 50 states (which I really doubt), people are free to practice their religion without any fear of anyone - other than fanatics of other faiths, perhaps.

This was weak. Really, really weak. A little Christmas tree in your office.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Mr. Big Dog