No Visa #2

[slim 1,525]

Thanks, Allen.

My sister is a cosmetologist and has suggested it also. The only problem we have with that is the funding. We're trying to keep costs low right now, and we really don't have the money to put her into any kind of school that's going to charge something. However, in a few short months (after taxes!) we should be good on cash, and she can jump into ESL or anything else she wants to do, even cosmetology school. She has mentioned an interest in that, so it could be a possibility.

The only reservation I have about her working at the hair salon is the interaction that she's going to have there with a lot of women, some of whom are not going to be the best "model Americans" or "model wives" for her to be getting her "American training" from. I remember posts from one of the guys on here before (from Chicago) who was divorcing his wife because she got caught up in the "salon culture" that was telling her all the stuff that she could get from her husband through the visa process and she ended up leaving him for another guy. (Anybody else remember that dude? He was on here a few months ago, then kind of disappeared.) Anyway, doesn't matter, your girl is an individual, as is mine, and she's going to choose to do whatever it is that she wants to do anyway, regardless of who is telling her what, and where they're employed. It seems to me though that there is a prevailing attitude among some of the Russian women (mine included) of: "I'm beautiful so I can get whatever I want" and this is not only supported at the salons, but highly supported and encouraged.

I've been trying to explain to Elena that "things here in the U.S. are quite different from overseas. EVERYTHING costs money, and EVERYTHING is expensive when you start to add up all the things we HAVE TO pay for every month. If you have a rich sugar-daddy, that's no problem. However, you don't have that, you have a poor husband that has to work a lot to pay the bills we have, and whatever you want in addition to that, he's going to have to work even more to pay for. So, until you start working and paying some of the bills, we're going to be tight on money." I think she understands to a point, but I see that being obliterated if/when she starts to spend a good portion of her day with women who are supported by men other than their husbands, who are most likely married themselves, or who have no interest in loving them, only having a "trophy" girl to take places and show off. I believe a large majority of the women working in the "salon culture" are this way, and I hope she doesn't fall in with this crowd. Even if she does, she will be OK. After all, it's up to the girl to make her own decisions, I just feel that she would be better off even somewhere like McDonald's where she would learn the value of hard-work and "earning" and honest dollar.

That said, I'm not knocking any woman that can get a man to pay all of her bills for her. I've just never met one that gets drunk and says "I'm really happy that my married sugar-daddy boyfriend pays my cell-phone bill and car note for me." Nope. Not a single one. Most say "I wish I could find a good man that loves ME. Not my body, not my looks, but really loves ME!" (And then they cry.)

OK, I got way off-topic here, but I'm just trying to say that I would like to have my wife (and maybe you would like to have yours too) learn for herself that it is tough to make it here, that it's not the monetary "jackpot" that's been described on all the dating web-sites.

The only jackpot that matters is being happy with your S/O, and I'd like for her to learn that first hand. Now, if she can do that by watching me.... great! Then she can take her @$$ off to the salon and go earn some good money gossipping about all the stupid men out there! (Even me!)

[AllenK 0]

Thanks, Allen.

...

The only reservation I have about her working at the hair salon is the interaction that she's going to have there with a lot of women, some of whom are not going to be the best "model Americans" or "model wives" for her to be getting her "American training" from. I remember posts from one of the guys on here before (from Chicago) who was divorcing his wife because she got caught up in the "salon culture" that was telling her all the stuff that she could get from her husband through the visa process and she ended up leaving him for another guy. (Anybody else remember that dude? He was on here a few months ago, then kind of disappeared.) Anyway, doesn't matter, your girl is an individual, as is mine, and she's going to choose to do whatever it is that she wants to do anyway, regardless of who is telling her what, and where they're employed. It seems to me though that there is a prevailing attitude among some of the Russian women (mine included) of: "I'm beautiful so I can get whatever I want" and this is not only supported at the salons, but highly supported and encouraged.

[Allen] TELL IT BROTHER, TELL IT! Money is definitely an arguing point with us. Natalia is staggeringly beautiful, and she knows it. Guys in Russia have spent more money on her than I could afford in the next 5 years, and I make, well, a goodly bit. She definitely does not see anything wrong with accepting gifts from others. Maybe Russia is a "Take what you can get however you can get it" society.

I made it clear to her that I gave away my fortune with the divorce, and that I am indeed a pauper now. She still makes comments like how money saved on the interview could go to a nice pair of shoes. I replied it would even be nicer to buy a nice place to sit since I have no chairs, table, or TV in my apartment. She got mad. I got mad at her lack of comprehension for the real world, or the lack of courtesy to understand our plight. Shoes are not a funny joke to me right now. [/Allen]

I've been trying to explain to Elena that "things here in the U.S. are quite different from overseas. EVERYTHING costs money, and EVERYTHING is expensive when you start to add up all the things we HAVE TO pay for every month. If you have a rich sugar-daddy, that's no problem. However, you don't have that, you have a poor husband that has to work a lot to pay the bills we have, and whatever you want in addition to that, he's going to have to work even more to pay for. So, until you start working and paying some of the bills, we're going to be tight on money." I think she understands to a point, but I see that being obliterated if/when she starts to spend a good portion of her day with women who are supported by men other than their husbands, who are most likely married themselves, or who have no interest in loving them, only having a "trophy" girl to take places and show off. I believe a large majority of the women working in the "salon culture" are this way, and I hope she doesn't fall in with this crowd. Even if she does, she will be OK. After all, it's up to the girl to make her own decisions, I just feel that she would be better off even somewhere like McDonald's where she would learn the value of hard-work and "earning" and honest dollar.

[Allen] Mine has been a "trophy girl" all her life. I'm not in trophy mode. I'm in survival mode. Wish me luck. [/Allen]

That said, I'm not knocking any woman that can get a man to pay all of her bills for her. I've just never met one that gets drunk and says "I'm really happy that my married sugar-daddy boyfriend pays my cell-phone bill and car note for me." Nope. Not a single one. Most say "I wish I could find a good man that loves ME. Not my body, not my looks, but really loves ME!" (And then they cry.)

[Allen] Sounds too familiar. Uh oh. [/Allen]

OK, I got way off-topic here, but I'm just trying to say that I would like to have my wife (and maybe you would like to have yours too) learn for herself that it is tough to make it here, that it's not the monetary "jackpot" that's been described on all the dating web-sites.

[Allen] Only one way to find out. Gotta try. If it blows up for lack of money, then I'm not losing anything. It should be interesting to see how she fares for a year without Mr. Gucci, Armani, Prada, and so on. [/Allen]

The only jackpot that matters is being happy with your S/O, and I'd like for her to learn that first hand. Now, if she can do that by watching me.... great! Then she can take her @$$ off to the salon and go earn some good money gossipping about all the stupid men out there! (Even me!)

[Allen] Stay in touch. One of us might need a place to stay one day [/Allen]

[slim 1,525]

More to post on this later.....

[slim 1,525]

OK, back with time to type.

One of my Russian girlfriends in Korea a couple years back was telling me about an old Korean boyfriend she used to have. She said, "I know he really love me because anything I want, he buy for me. I must only look at this thing, and it's mine. He never say me about price, he never worry about money, nothing. Only buy for me anything what I want to make me happy." She went on to say that he was 49-years-old, (she was 28 at the time, so she was probably only 24 or 25 when they were "a couple") and that he was married with kids, etc. Then she asked me, "why you don't buy for me something? Every time I want something or look at something, you never have money to buy for me or you want buy me something for cheap. What, you don't love me?"

I obviously didn't love her the way this guy did.

And she knew it. That's why after 10 months of dating her, when I got shipped back to the States, she balled her eyes out. She was my "girlfriend" for the whole time I was in Korea, not because I bought her nice things (she was with several other guys for that) but because of what I gave her that couldn't be bought. Because of the things we did together, because the way I treated her, talked to her, touched her... because of the way I made her feel special.

You can't buy feelings. You can't buy the way someone makes you feel when you're around them. You can't buy a girl's happiness. Any man (with enough money) can buy any girl anything they want. But there's no amount of money in the world that can make a girl feel loved.

There are so many of these Russian girls that are gorgeous, and have men literally throwing money at them in the hopes that they'll be impressed enough to give it up, that they become accustomed to being treated like a princess, and don't give a second thought to WHY this guy is buying them a $300 handbag on their first "date". They get to the point where it's almost an expectation for men to spend large sums on them; that if the men don't, they're being disrespectful and cheapening the girl's "value". These gorgeous women have been wined-and-dined, sometimes to the tune of thousands of dollars for a single evening, and they see themselves as worthy of that much each time they go out, so how dare you, a guy that "loves" them, not spend as much as some guy that just "likes" them, or just wants to have sex with them?

Money is going to be a serious issue with some of you out there. If you have a good salary and can afford to get your girl nice things, you're going to have no problems (in this aspect). For those of you who have girls that are down-to-earth and realize that you're not a rich guy, you're going to have no problems either. But for those of you out there that have girls that are used to having "sugar-daddies" pay all their bills, take them to nice places, etc., etc., the short term answer is this: you are going to have problems, and the only thing you can do is be truthful about the money you have and the money that you can afford to spend on her. She's going to be pissed. She's going to think you don't "value" her the way you should. She's going to let you know that she can find someone that is willing to pay for all of her "needs" and doesn't need you to do it for her.

The long term answer is: All of those "needs" that she has, the ones that need to be met by someone producing a dollar amount... those will become secondary to the "needs" that she has as a woman that wants to be happy with her husband and to have a happy family someday.

The trick is trying to find the middle ground, and trying to persevere while the process is on-going, and trying to keep her happy enough until she realizes that you really are trying to give her more than money, you're trying to make her truly happy.

Sometimes that's easy, sometimes it's not. The only advice I can tell you is to emphasize the fact that even though you don't have a lot of money, the money you do have is so the two of you can be happy together. It's not for buying her outrageously expensive presents that she doesn't NEED, it's for ensuring that the two of you can make a life together and be happy. If you can convey the importance of money for happiness as opposed to money for tangible assets, eventually she'll come around and admit that even though her sugar daddy bought her everything she ever wanted, she knew deep down in her heart that he didn't really love her, and in truth, she didn't really love him either. But, she knows that you do, and for some strange reason.... she loves you back!

Women are funny with that love thing... it makes them forget that they "NEED" a guy to spend a million bucks on them.

[Chuckles 0]

I don't want to sound boastful or anything, but I have got to say most of your guys experiences with Russian women are not the same as mine. It is interesting. My wife has more money then me if you look at debt/asset ratios. She managed to save money into the 5 figures on a teachers salary in Russia (outside Moscow!) and she constantly is trying to curb my spending. Most of her friends I met (mind you not all...) are similar with their spending habits, and never ask for anything frivolous from their husbands. I think my wife is pretty enough to have a 'sugar daddy', but thats not why I married her.

Again, I just wanted to point out that their are many different perspectives and experiences out there. It seems finding the 'gold digger' is most common judging by this forum and others, but it doesn't always work that way.

[slim 1,525]

I don't want to sound boastful or anything, but I have got to say most of your guys experiences with Russian women are not the same as mine. It is interesting. My wife has more money then me if you look at debt/asset ratios. She managed to save money into the 5 figures on a teachers salary in Russia (outside Moscow!) and she constantly is trying to curb my spending. Most of her friends I met (mind you not all...) are similar with their spending habits, and never ask for anything frivolous from their husbands. I think my wife is pretty enough to have a 'sugar daddy', but thats not why I married her.

Again, I just wanted to point out that their are many different perspectives and experiences out there. It seems finding the 'gold digger' is most common judging by this forum and others, but it doesn't always work that way.

You're a lucky man, Chuckles!

(First off, WOW! That's amazing that she saved so much in Russia... and on a teacher's salary!) You're right, the most common scenario based on internet sites is the "gold digger" scenario. Everyone's situation is different, and you seem to have hit "gold" yourself! Congrats for that! (And no, that's not boasting, that's honest pride, and rightfully so!)

Alas, back to the gold digger thing. I want to make it clear that there is a distinct difference between a "gold digger" and a girl that believes she has a certain "value". (And usually that value is pretty high.) This goes back to the posts about the different kind of girls that are out there. There are the ones that want love (sunshine and puppy dogs), the ones that want a better life and decide to take a shot with a guy (hope it works out mutually beneficial for both of us), then there are the gold diggers (I'm going to take all of his money, get my green card, then divorce his @$$ and find me a rich man). It seems to me that the majority of Russian girls that I've met, regardless of their "style" in choosing a fiance, all have an associated "value" that they view themselves to posess.

Chuckles, and a few others on here, it seems, have found women that don't associate a dollar amount to their "value", they associate something else. (Maybe like their self-esteem, their happiness, love, etc., something that matters to them that can't be measured in terms of price.) The majority though, seem to think "if you want to be with me, you must spend X amount of money on me. If you don't, you don't really like me that much." They feel insulted or cheapened if you won't spend that much money on them.

The good news is, this is only an attitude, and a personal view the girl has for herself. It can be changed through practice and persuasion. Her perception of her "value" can be altered... it just takes some time! Also, keep in mind that she can still love you through this whole process, she's just pissed you're not spending as much money on her as she feels you should, and therefore thinks that you don't "value" her as much as you should. Eventually though, she'll realize that you don't place the "value" in dollars... only in sense!