No Visa #2

[Barry2005 0]

I didn't think there was anything wrong with wanting to meet an American online for marriage.

[wissooner 0]

Thanks dardislake for sharing your experiences with the embassy. I was orignally just going to have my fiance take a sampling of our e-mails and letters as well as phone records. After reading about your experiences and others, I may just include all letters and emails we sent each other. Just to be safe. Maybe they will read some of them.................Ken

[Neonred 3,564]

PS - Neonred - Yes, I still would expect someone to call me with something so important. You may want to condone it simply because it's government, but I will not. And I don't believe me being the white night on my horse outside, ready to charge in and "raise hell" as you put it, would have made any difference.

All I can say is it worked for me. Got things straightened out on the spot.

Perhaps a little different situation, but I was glad I was there.

And I still don't see how you expect a phone call from the embassy in Moscow. Would be nice, but totally unreasonable I think.

[akdiver 3]

PS - Neonred - Yes, I still would expect someone to call me with something so important. You may want to condone it simply because it's government, but I will not. And I don't believe me being the white night on my horse outside, ready to charge in and "raise hell" as you put it, would have made any difference.

If you would bother to read the embassy website (http://moscow.usembassy.gov/consular/consular.php?record_id=nivfaq), you would see that on the FAQ, question #12, appears the following:

Q: Can the consular officer call me during the visa interview if s/he has questions about my friend or relative who is applying?

A: No, for two reasons. First, as noted above, the burden of qualification is on the applicant, and assurances from friends, family members, or associates in the United States do not affect the applicant’s ability to qualify for the visa. Second, the sheer volume of interviews and the cost of international calls makes this impossible both in terms of time and cost.

This being the case, your expectation IS completely unreasonable for you to expect them to call you. As for being important - well, maybe it is important to YOU and YOUR lives, but in the overall scheme of things, fact is, none of us, as individuals, are important in the eyes of the government. The sooner you realize and accept that, the easier your life will be.

Good luck to you!

Cheers!

AKDiver

[Turboguy 6]

If it makes you feel better keeping the passport is a good sign. If they thought it was definately a no go they would have returned it.

I think the extra phone records and e-mails may help and the senator may help a bit. It almost sounds like the same CO that my former fiancee had. We had quite a stir on VJ when mine ran into snags. AKDiver may remember that. In my case the CO asked if she wanted the interview in English or Russian. She said Russian. He said he could do it in Russian if she wanted but he would deny the visa in that case.

Basically what you have is an intent to deny. The burden of proof is on you to show that you really do have a relationship. It sounds like you are doing everything right to prove that and I hope it works. If it does turn into a final denial the case files are sent to the NVC. The passport is returned to your fiancee and you have a right to file an appeal to the NVC. I don't think it will go there with any luck. More E-mails and phone records may do the trick.

[akdiver 3]

I dunno, maybe I'm jaded because we haven't had any problems along the way - but I don't see how difficult it could be to prove a relationship is "real" (whatever "real" means).

If I had to GUESS, maybe the embassy CO takes the position that a relationship is not "real", if it fits the general description of, "we had some communication, met once for a week or so, decided to get married, and have had lots of long-distance communication since". To be fair, I don't think the average person on the street would feel it was "real", so it's not too surprising that a CO may be skeptical. That is, afterall, more or less their job - to ferret out the real from the fraudulent. Grandpas hooking up with barely legal teenagers don't help the situation any and cause unwanted scrutiny for everyone else as well.

So, the question then becomes, how to overcome this barrier, or if your prefer, discrimination? Clearly, IF relations via long-distance communications are not considered valid (or at least garner extra scrutiny), then all the evidence of long-distance communications in the world isn't likely to help much. This includes e-mails, text messages, phone records, web-cam beaver shots, and whatever else. So what else can you do? The obvious answer is meeting in person, as often as possible. Is it expensive and inconvenient? You betcha. So is an immigration appeals process. At least with the travel you get to have some fun along the way. I think they like to see meeting in person as a measure of a bona-fide relationship. I think it probably helps, A LOT, to meet more than once - and by this I do NOT mean once at the beginning, and once just prior to the interview at the embassy. FWIW, my (now) wife and I met a total of three times, spent a total of, about 45 "in person" days together, over a span of about six months. The last of these visits was more than two months before the embassy interview.

Now, to some extent, I think luck plays a big part in things too. My (now) wife was hardly asked for any evidence of relationship at all, but she was armed with more evidence than you can imagine. She had all of the standard documents and papers, as well as printed copies of every e-mail each of us had sent the other (over a period of about a year), all of the original snail-mail letters I sent (which happened to be in calligraphy, on nice paper), photos of our travels together, copies of our travel documents from different trips, photos of me with her parents in Russia, and so forth. We had no phone records of any kind (since we didn't talk on the phone hardly at all). Everything was bound up and organized in a 3-ring binder and actually looked pretty good. The CO didn't ask to see any of it.

I wish I could tell you WHY she wasn't asked for much evidence. Maybe it was because she was older (27 at the time), relative to many of the girls they see come through there. Maybe it was because we didn't have much age difference (6 years). Maybe it was because she told them she was going to Alaska (not generally known as a prize destination for young Russian women to immigrate to). Maybe it was because we didn't meet in Russia in the first place, but Egypt. Maybe it was because I had been to Russia to visit her twice, for a total of uh, about 30 days. Maybe it was because we had traveled in a total of four different countries together. Maybe it was because she owned her own travel agency, did very well for herself as far as economics go, and that her passport indicated she had traveled extensively throughout the world - all of which adding up to the fact that she didn't need to hook up with some American dude to have a better life. Maybe it was because she speaks perfect English, smiled sweetly, and was able to make pleasant conversation, in English, with the CO. Maybe it was because, at the time, I worked for the Federal Government in a high-ranking (pay-scale-wise) position and the CO figured I was not likely to engage in fraud and risk my job. Who knows what goes through their minds? SHOULD any of this stuff matter? maybe, maybe not. DOES it seem to matter? Probably.

So, we're back to, what can you do to get through this process? All I can advise is that you do whatever you can to make your relationship seem as normal as a "regular" one, involving two people in the same city, going out on dates and hooking up and whatever else goes into that. No, you can't meet that standard, but if you work toward it, just maybe you will reduce the chances of the denial, admin review, RFE, or whatever else. Above all else, I recommend in person visits. Have a minimum of two, and three if at all possible. I think that will help you out a lot.

Good luck to all!

Cheers!

AKDiver

[John and Anna 0]

I dunno, maybe I'm jaded because we haven't had any problems along the way - but I don't see how difficult it could be to prove a relationship is "real" (whatever "real" means).

The obvious answer is meeting in person, as often as possible. Is it expensive and inconvenient? You betcha. So is an immigration appeals process. At least with the travel you get to have some fun along the way. I think they like to see meeting in person as a measure of a bona-fide relationship. I think it probably helps, A LOT, to meet more than once - and by this I do NOT mean once at the beginning, and once just prior to the interview at the embassy. FWIW, my (now) wife and I met a total of three times, spent a total of, about 45 "in person" days together, over a span of about six months. The last of these visits was more than two months before the embassy interview.

Now, to some extent, I think luck plays a big part in things too. My (now) wife was hardly asked for any evidence of relationship at all, but she was armed with more evidence than you can imagine. She had all of the standard documents and papers, as well as printed copies of every e-mail each of us had sent the other (over a period of about a year), all of the original snail-mail letters I sent (which happened to be in calligraphy, on nice paper), photos of our travels together, copies of our travel documents from different trips, photos of me with her parents in Russia, and so forth. We had no phone records of any kind (since we didn't talk on the phone hardly at all). Everything was bound up and organized in a 3-ring binder and actually looked pretty good. The CO didn't ask to see any of it.

So, we're back to, what can you do to get through this process? All I can advise is that you do whatever you can to make your relationship seem as normal as a "regular" one, involving two people in the same city, going out on dates and hooking up and whatever else goes into that. No, you can't meet that standard, but if you work toward it, just maybe you will reduce the chances of the denial, admin review, RFE, or whatever else. Above all else, I recommend in person visits. Have a minimum of two, and three if at all possible. I think that will help you out a lot.

Hey AK - we sailed thru the interview and process also. I visited Anna 4 times before we filed our 129f. check out my timeline notes they looked at nothing she had with her. Asked her a couple of questions and off she was...

BTW our age differance is 17years...

Visit her not only to convince the CO but to get to know each other...

[slim 1,525]

I have sent lots of Emails and SMS messages talking about the great sex we had and how much I missed that! Would that be considered Love'y Dove? maybe they might get a thrill reading some of the saved SMS or Emails describing the passionate act???

If your CO is a guy, you'll probably get a visa issued and a high-5 to boot! "Up top, dude!"

But, if it's a lady.... good luck, buddy!

Like AK posted above... who knows what really matters. It does seem that in-person meetings seem to be best followed by nice snail-mail (with a little ROMANCE, not just "passionate act" info) and photos.

Personally, I think the "big picture" has to be that here is a guy and a girl that love each other and want to be together, not for her to get a better life and him to get a hot piece of @$$. How to illustrate that is really up to you. But, when looking at your case, don't look at it as your case, look at it as "that guy's" case. If you looked at the "big picture" would you think "they're really in love." Or would you think "yep, she's just trying to go to the U.S."

Looking at it kind of like the tourist and other visas for Russians to come to the U.S., you have to "prove" to the CO that they don't really "need" to come to the U.S., but want to come here to be with you. It's important for the girl to go into the interview with that attitude too. She has to "sell" the relationship. But, with the "big picture" already being painted for them, she should only have to confirm that you're in love and the relationship is real, not "sell" it.

The one thing I'd like to add to everyone...

Take some time.

Don't meet, fly to Moscow, spend a week together, then send in the K-1. Take another year or two to decide, and in that time, really build the evidence. Send letters (IN RUSSIAN!!! Your hand-written letters, in Russian, prove to the CO that YOU are taking the time to learn about your girl and her culture.... not just getting a hot piece of @$$ from an internet website.) Send e-mails with pictures of what you're doing here, and her there. Let them know that you both have regular lives and interact with each other like a "normal couple", but you just happen to live 10,000 miles apart. And call. Call more often. Those of you that are saying you don't like to call because of the bad connections, the time differences or the language barriers, etc., you're going to have to communicate 1,000 times more when she's here and you live together. If you talk on the phone, you'll be better able to sort out her moods, tones, etc. Verbal (along with non-verbal) communication is key in the face-to-face relationship. You're not going to be able to only e-mail or SMS your wife when you're pissed off. If you've talked on the phone with her for two years or more and realize when she's angry or sad or happy, then when you talk for real, it'll be a whole lot easier. And, when she goes to that interview, they'll be able to tell that you've talked a lot because number one, she'll be able to understand/speak English better, and number two, she'll know just about everything about you that the CO has in front of them.

I don't know guys. There is no guide here or anywhere on how to establish and "prove" a real relationship. The only thing I can say is to put yourself in the COs chair (and maybe even imagine that you're a woman) and look at the evidence, how the girl presents herself about it all, and if you can't say that she 100% loves that guy (YOU!) then you better build some more evidence.

GOOD LUCK!!! And remember, it's your burden to "prove it."

[Turboguy 6]

Well, not to disagree but the requirements are that you have met within the last two years, that you have a real relationship and that you intend to marry.

I think it is a shame that so much of the chances of success in this depend on which CO you get and what kind of mood they are in that day.

I can not disagree the more visits are better. Sometimes that does not seem to matter to them. There is an element of luck to it and all any of us can do is try and establish as much proof as we can.

[akdiver 3]

Well, not to disagree but the requirements are that you have met within the last two years, that you have a real relationship and that you intend to marry.

Hard to get by in life by just complying with minimum requirements.

Cheers!

AKDiver

[Michaela_Hassan 1]

#######!?? Lack of continuing relationship was questioned at Lana's interview. 9 pictures, emails, paltalks, delivery receipts, phone records, engagement ring & receipt supplied. What is going on? It was questioned why I had only been to russia once. All in the span of 10-15 minutes and my Lana is excused...DHL us more information...Next! I'm livid. Called the embassy, but they'll only take email and won't discuss over the phone, so I sent one. Two to three day response promised - Alright!! Hopefully the Senator's office can help in the AM, don't know what else to do.

I'm so sorry this happened to you, I hope it can be resolved soon, at least they didn't send the petition back to the states yet.

Best of Luck to you!

Michaela

[Boiler 45,525]

Love is not required, seem to be mentioned a lot in this post.

A relationship other than soley for immigration benefit is.

And that goes down the sponsoree.

Just wondered what the situation is with male applicants, this thread seems to solely take about female applicants.

[Turboguy 6]

AKDiver, I agree with you totally. There do seem to be a lot of people who do the minimum though. I sometimes wonder how much someone can really be in love with someone if they see them one time and then don't see them again until the visa comes through. I know finances and vacation time can be tough for some but I try to not go much over 45 days without seeing mine and if my visa runs slow I am moving to Russia in April and staying till it comes through possibly with a few short trips home for busienss.

Boiler, Yes, love is not required but most want to feel they are in love or at least have someone they can fall in love with to marry them. Some are sort of old fashioned that way. In Russia and the former Soviet Union it is mostly gals who are marrying guys from the USA. The same is true for the Philippines and some other areas but there are parts of the world where that is not the case. In the Russia thread you won't see a lot of the opposite.

[slim 1,525]

Hard to get by in life by just complying with minimum requirements.

Cheers!

AKDiver

You know what, Stan, if you want me to wear 37 pieces of flair, like your pretty boy over there, Brian, why don't you just make the minimum 37 pieces of flair?

[dardislake 0]

VISA APPROVED!