Jews told to register in East Ukraine

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Are you referring to the will and vote of the people?

They say hitler also made the trains run on schedule.... is that now a bad things too?

Another prediction of mine coming to pass-

Never trust national defense to a liberal, their area of responsibility should never be more than the Dept. of the Interior.

Tol-ya-so.

I'd suggest you read up on how Hitler performed his land grab from Czechoslovakia. If you have any ability in you to look at the situation objectively, you'll see that it went down in much the same way in which Putin performed his land grab in Ukraine. Sure, the Sudeten Germans wanted to join Germany. And yet, those territories actually belonged to neighboring Czechoslovakia and the annexation of those territories was indisputably illegal - same as Putin's recent land grab. There are folks in Germany that would like to incorporate the Sudetenland and Silesia again. Problem is that these territories now belong to Poland, Czech Republic and Slovakia. And that's the end of it. If it's not, I am quite certain that we could interest a majority in today's Kaliningrad to re-join Germany where it historically belongs as the easternmost city Königsberg. Putin should be supportive, yes?

I notice -and am not surprised one bit - that you try hard to see the good that Hitler did. It's quite shocking but given your post history here really not surprising. Will you celebrate Easter or The Führer's birthday this Sunday? Or both?

Last time we trusted national defense to a non-liberal, 3,000 Americans perished in a terrorist attack on our soil and thousands more were needlessly wasted in an illegal war. That's on top of tens of thousand of innocent civilians that lost their lives for nothing but a big lie. Foreign nations have been encouraged to disregard international law since the US - under non-liberal leadership - has demonstrated that international law doesn't really matter. No, thanks, we've been doing much better under liberal leadership.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

They don't make Germans like they used too.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

They don't make Germans like they used too.

True but that's not at all a bad thing. By and large, Germans are better today than they were 100 years ago. We don't bother or worry our neighbors these days.

[Danno 1,228]

I'd suggest you read up on how Hitler performed his land grab from Czechoslovakia. If you have any ability in you to look at the situation objectively, you'll see that it went down in much the same way in which Putin performed his land grab in Ukraine. Sure, the Sudeten Germans wanted to join Germany. And yet, those territories actually belonged to neighboring Czechoslovakia and the annexation of those territories was indisputably illegal - same as Putin's recent land grab. There are folks in Germany that would like to incorporate the Sudetenland and Silesia again. Problem is that these territories now belong to Poland, Czech Republic and Slovakia. And that's the end of it. If it's not, I am quite certain that we could interest a majority in today's Kaliningrad to re-join Germany where it historically belongs as the easternmost city Königsberg. Putin should be supportive, yes?

I notice -and am not surprised one bit - that you try hard to see the good that Hitler did. It's quite shocking but given your post history here really not surprising. Will you celebrate Easter or The Führer's birthday this Sunday? Or both?

Last time we trusted national defense to a non-liberal, 3,000 Americans perished in a terrorist attack on our soil and thousands more were needlessly wasted in an illegal war. That's on top of tens of thousand of innocent civilians that lost their lives for nothing but a big lie. Foreign nations have been encouraged to disregard international law since the US - under non-liberal leadership - has demonstrated that international law doesn't really matter. No, thanks, we've been doing much better under liberal leadership.

Ahh yes the need to hide behind Hitlers legacy knows no limit with you folks.

It always rears it's head when you run low on an argument.

Do people have a right to self determination or not? THe UN says yes. We said yes (in 1776) and Kosovo said yes with our help.

When it suites us we believe in the right of self determination... when it doesn't suite us we don't support this basic right of people.

Your point about Putin and how he would respond to "other areas" which might wish to separate from Russia is with merit..... it would seem hypocrisy is not solely an American trait.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Ahh yes the need to hide behind Hitlers legacy knows no limit with you folks.

It always rears it's head when you run low on an argument.

Do people have a right to self determination or not? THe UN says yes. We said yes (in 1776) and Kosovo said yes with our help.

When it suites us we believe in the right of self determination... when it doesn't suite us we don't support this basic right of people.

Your point about Putin and how he would respond to "other areas" which might wish to separate from Russia is with merit..... it would seem hypocrisy is not solely an American trait.

I hide behind Hitler's legacy? What the hell are you smoking, Danno?

Putin's illegal land grab from Ukraine has as little to do with self-determination as Hitler's illegal land grab back then from Czechoslovakia. Plain and simple, Danno. There's really nothing to argue about.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Mr. Big Dog

[Danno 1,228]

I hide behind Hitler's legacy? What the hell are you smoking, Danno?

Putin's illegal land grab from Ukraine has as little to do with self-determination as Hitler's illegal land grab back then from Czechoslovakia. Plain and simple, Danno. There's really nothing to argue about.

THose people in Crimea voted... deal with it.

Q: Should the Dutch and British and germans still control all those third world countries they once held?

Didn't those people have the right of self determination?

I don't see you leaving this secessionist land hand heading to Great Briton in protest of our exercise in self determination.

Deal with it!

The UN Charter[edit]

In 1941 Allies of World War II signed the Atlantic Charter and accepted the principle of self-determination. In January 1942 twenty-six states signed the Declaration by United Nations, which accepted those principles. The ratification of the United Nations Charter in 1945 at the end of World War II placed the right of self-determination into the framework of international law and diplomacy.

• Chapter 1, Article 1, part 2 states that purpose of the UN Charter is: "To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace."^[21]
• Article 1 in both the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR)^[22] and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR)^[23] reads: "All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."
• The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights article 15 states that everyone has the right to a nationality and that no one should be arbitrarily deprived of a nationality or denied the right to change nationality.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

THose people in Crimea voted... deal with it.

Q: Should the Dutch and British and germans still control all those third world countries they once held?

Didn't those people have the right of self determination?

I don't see you leaving this secessionist land hand heading to Great Briton in protest of our exercise in self determination.

Deal with it!

The UN Charter[edit]

In 1941 Allies of World War II signed the Atlantic Charter and accepted the principle of self-determination. In January 1942 twenty-six states signed the Declaration by United Nations, which accepted those principles. The ratification of the United Nations Charter in 1945 at the end of World War II placed the right of self-determination into the framework of international law and diplomacy.

• Chapter 1, Article 1, part 2 states that purpose of the UN Charter is: "To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace."^[21]
• Article 1 in both the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR)^[22] and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR)^[23] reads: "All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."
• The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights article 15 states that everyone has the right to a nationality and that no one should be arbitrarily deprived of a nationality or denied the right to change nationality.

They voted. That doesn't matter. Deal with it. The annexation of Crimea by Russia is an illegal act. If people in Kaliningrad were to vote to join Germany tomorrow (I'm sure such proposal would find much support), an annexation of the city by Germany would be illegal and it would most certainly not be accepted by Russia. It's really just that simple. The right to self-determination does not trump the territorial integrity of nations. Texans, for example, do not have a right to secede from the US. That does not mean that the people of the United states are somehow deprived of their right to self-determination. They're not. It's really not that hard to understand, Danno. If one wants to understand. You don't, of course.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

The right to self-determination does not trump the territorial integrity of nations. Texans, for example, do not have a right to secede from the US. That does not mean that the people of the United states are somehow deprived of their right to self-determination. They're not. It's really not that hard to understand, Danno. If one wants to understand. You don't, of course.

Ummm, I disagree strongly. The previous century saw many borders redrawn, new nations formed, and other nations absorbed. Was the reunification of Germany an illegal act under some sort of international accord? Should the Palestinians and Israelis just give up and hold national elections, one person one vote and let the falafels fall where they may? (Well, yeah, but it is not going to happen. )

Edited April 19, 2014 by The Postmaster

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Ummm, I disagree strongly. The previous century saw many borders redrawn, new nations formed, and other nations absorbed. Was the reunification of Germany an illegal act under some sort of international accord? Should the Palestinians and Israelis just give up and hold national elections, one person one vote and let the falafels fall where they may? (Well, yeah, but it is not going to happen. )

You're not seriously suggesting that Putin's land grab in Crimea has any parallels whatsoever with the reunification of Germany, are you? If you are, I will have to stop taking you seriously.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

You're not seriously suggesting that Putin's land grab in Crimea has any parallels whatsoever with the reunification of Germany, are you? If you are, I will have to stop taking you seriously.

I see.

[Dakine10 5,452]

THose people in Crimea voted... deal with it.

Q: Should the Dutch and British and germans still control all those third world countries they once held?

Didn't those people have the right of self determination?

I don't see you leaving this secessionist land hand heading to Great Briton in protest of our exercise in self determination.

Deal with it!

The UN Charter[edit]

In 1941 Allies of World War II signed the Atlantic Charter and accepted the principle of self-determination. In January 1942 twenty-six states signed the Declaration by United Nations, which accepted those principles. The ratification of the United Nations Charter in 1945 at the end of World War II placed the right of self-determination into the framework of international law and diplomacy.

• Chapter 1, Article 1, part 2 states that purpose of the UN Charter is: "To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace."^[21]
• Article 1 in both the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR)^[22] and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR)^[23] reads: "All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."
• The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights article 15 states that everyone has the right to a nationality and that no one should be arbitrarily deprived of a nationality or denied the right to change nationality.

After reading this, it sounds like Kruschev's transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine was illegal in the first place. The leader of the USSR decided to make a million+ Russians become citizens of Ukraine against their will. Arbitrarily.

[Danno 1,228]

After reading this, it sounds like Kruschev's transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine was illegal in the first place. The leader of the USSR decided to make a million+ Russians become citizens of Ukraine against their will. Arbitrarily.

I think the truth is, lines are almost always drawn by force of power not law.

Look how we intervened in Yugoslavia.... by what law did we wage war and then facilitate the breaking up of the country?

NATO wanted to do it... and so it did.

Do other military pacs have the same right to carry out those actions void of any international law?

Might is right, always has and always will be.

Thats exactly how we intervene when it suites us and the charade that we play condemning Putin for breeching "international law" is just that a charade. Putin plays the same game back now.

Bottom line-

Crimea went to Ukraine because no one could stop it and it went back to Russia in the same manner (though they did have the unusual opportunity to vote).

Edited April 20, 2014 by Danno