Social Security benefits for illegal aliens?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Yep, wouldn't want to actually get any kind of revenue from Spanish speakers, now would we? That would be horrible! Along with the SS taxes and federal taxes that are paid but benefits never claimed, it's a horrible thing they are adding a slush to these things!

Illegal aliens are a net cost in the range of $10bn p.a. That is despite their fueling the race to the bottom for US workers.

[peezey 0]

Yep, wouldn't want to actually get any kind of revenue from Spanish speakers, now would we? That would be horrible! Along with the SS taxes and federal taxes that are paid but benefits never claimed, it's a horrible thing they are adding a slush to these things!

Illegal aliens are a net cost in the range of $10bn p.a. That is despite their fueling the race to the bottom for US workers.

There are sources stating the complete opposite, eg, net gain of same, so we can go round and round posting links, but suffice it to say, we don't agree on this.

[Heracles 417]

Yep, wouldn't want to actually get any kind of revenue from Spanish speakers, now would we? That would be horrible! Along with the SS taxes and federal taxes that are paid but benefits never claimed, it's a horrible thing they are adding a slush to these things!

Illegal aliens are a net cost in the range of $10bn p.a. That is despite their fueling the race to the bottom for US workers.

There are sources stating the complete opposite, eg, net gain of same, so we can go round and round posting links, but suffice it to say, we don't agree on this.

Those sources are manipulated by people who hire illegal immigrants. A cheap foreign source of labor who pays little if any tax can not be good news for any country. This country has more than enough poor, unemployed or underemployed people to fill the void..

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

Yep, wouldn't want to actually get any kind of revenue from Spanish speakers, now would we? That would be horrible! Along with the SS taxes and federal taxes that are paid but benefits never claimed, it's a horrible thing they are adding a slush to these things!

when you can post facts instead of emotions, then perhaps it's best for you to post. the above is total bs.

here's some reading for you to be more informed

-----------------------------------------------------------

FAIR research suggests that "between 40 and 50 percent of wage-loss among low-skilled Americans is due to the immigration of low-skilled workers. Some native workers lose not just wages but their jobs through immigrant competition. An estimated 1,880,000 American workers are displaced from their jobs every year by immigration; the cost for providing welfare and assistance to these Americans is over $15 billion a year." The National Research Council, part of the National Academy of Sciences, found in 1997 that the average immigrant without a high school education imposes a net fiscal burden on public coffers of $89,000 during the course of his or her lifetime. The average immigrant with only a high school education creates a lifetime fiscal burden of $31,000.

Illegal aliens have cost billions of taxpayer-funded dollars for medical services. Dozens of hospitals in Texas, New Mexico Arizona, and California, have been forced to close or face bankruptcy because of federally-mandated programs requiring free emergency room services to illegal aliens. Taxpayers pay half-a-billion dollars per year incarcerating illegal alien criminals.

link

[Alex+R 0]

Yep, wouldn't want to actually get any kind of revenue from Spanish speakers, now would we? That would be horrible! Along with the SS taxes and federal taxes that are paid but benefits never claimed, it's a horrible thing they are adding a slush to these things!

when you can post facts instead of emotions, then perhaps it's best for you to post. the above is total bs.

here's some reading for you to be more informed

-----------------------------------------------------------

FAIR research suggests that "between 40 and 50 percent of wage-loss among low-skilled Americans is due to the immigration of low-skilled workers. Some native workers lose not just wages but their jobs through immigrant competition. An estimated 1,880,000 American workers are displaced from their jobs every year by immigration; the cost for providing welfare and assistance to these Americans is over $15 billion a year." The National Research Council, part of the National Academy of Sciences, found in 1997 that the average immigrant without a high school education imposes a net fiscal burden on public coffers of $89,000 during the course of his or her lifetime. The average immigrant with only a high school education creates a lifetime fiscal burden of $31,000.

Illegal aliens have cost billions of taxpayer-funded dollars for medical services. Dozens of hospitals in Texas, New Mexico Arizona, and California, have been forced to close or face bankruptcy because of federally-mandated programs requiring free emergency room services to illegal aliens. Taxpayers pay half-a-billion dollars per year incarcerating illegal alien criminals.

link

Charles, when you post facts instead of partisan BS, then I'll take what you post into account. FAIR is probably the worst place to look for unbiased facts. Find some data from someone without an agenda.

Peezey is right; there are think tanks on both sides of the issue producing data with mirroring results. Some say it costs the US 8 zillion, some say it benefits the US 8 zillion.

What we do know is that illegal immigrants use far fewer services than Americans and legal residents. The reason they cost more is, like any low-income group, they're going to pay less in taxes than they ultimately benefit. That's because of their general lower education level. Who knows, maybe we could solve this problem by educating them all at night?

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

Yep, wouldn't want to actually get any kind of revenue from Spanish speakers, now would we? That would be horrible! Along with the SS taxes and federal taxes that are paid but benefits never claimed, it's a horrible thing they are adding a slush to these things!

when you can post facts instead of emotions, then perhaps it's best for you to post. the above is total bs.

here's some reading for you to be more informed

-----------------------------------------------------------

FAIR research suggests that "between 40 and 50 percent of wage-loss among low-skilled Americans is due to the immigration of low-skilled workers. Some native workers lose not just wages but their jobs through immigrant competition. An estimated 1,880,000 American workers are displaced from their jobs every year by immigration; the cost for providing welfare and assistance to these Americans is over $15 billion a year." The National Research Council, part of the National Academy of Sciences, found in 1997 that the average immigrant without a high school education imposes a net fiscal burden on public coffers of $89,000 during the course of his or her lifetime. The average immigrant with only a high school education creates a lifetime fiscal burden of $31,000.

Illegal aliens have cost billions of taxpayer-funded dollars for medical services. Dozens of hospitals in Texas, New Mexico Arizona, and California, have been forced to close or face bankruptcy because of federally-mandated programs requiring free emergency room services to illegal aliens. Taxpayers pay half-a-billion dollars per year incarcerating illegal alien criminals.

link

Charles, when you post facts instead of partisan BS, then I'll take what you post into account. FAIR is probably the worst place to look for unbiased facts. Find some data from someone without an agenda.

Peezey is right; there are think tanks on both sides of the issue producing data with mirroring results. Some say it costs the US 8 zillion, some say it benefits the US 8 zillion.

What we do know is that illegal immigrants use far fewer services than Americans and legal residents. The reason they cost more is, like any low-income group, they're going to pay less in taxes than they ultimately benefit. That's because of their general lower education level. Who knows, maybe we could solve this problem by educating them all at night?

partisan according to who? it can't be a republican website, as according to steven republicans like cheap labor

oh you want to live in ny, don't you?

here is something just for you.

Illegal Immigration Costs New Yorkers More Than $5 Billion a Year Finds New Study by FAIR

Washington, DC—While local politicians, like New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, go out of their way to shield illegal aliens, the Empire State’s taxpayers are stuck with a $5.1 billion a year bill, finds a new study by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). The $5.1 billion annual price tag associated with illegal immigration, according to the report, The Costs of Illegal Immigration to New Yorkers, covers the costs of only three basic state-provided services: K-12 education, publicly funded health care, and incarceration of illegal aliens who have committed other crimes after settling in New York. In 2005, some 645,000 illegal aliens were estimated to live in New York.

more here

[Heracles 417]

FAIR research suggests that "between 40 and 50 percent of wage-loss among low-skilled Americans is due to the immigration of low-skilled workers. Some native workers lose not just wages but their jobs through immigrant competition. An estimated 1,880,000 American workers are displaced from their jobs every year by immigration; the cost for providing welfare and assistance to these Americans is over $15 billion a year."

What we do know is that illegal immigrants use far fewer services than Americans and legal residents. The reason they cost more is, like any low-income group, they're going to pay less in taxes than they ultimately benefit. That's because of their general lower education level. Who knows, maybe we could solve this problem by educating them all at night?

They still use services funded by the American tax payer. The second great issue identified is the ripple effect stated by Charles. All of those "Americans", you know the ones living in America, are pushed into welfare at a great cost both socially and literally to Americans. Therefore of course Americans are consequently going to use more welfare services.

How can anyone advocate people breaking into their country, into their home and support these people stealing jobs from Americans?

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

Charles, when you post facts instead of partisan BS, then I'll take what you post into account. FAIR is probably the worst place to look for unbiased facts. Find some data from someone without an agenda.

ah yes. here is the mission statement from their website:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a national, nonprofit, public-interest, membership organization of concerned citizens who share a common belief that our nation's immigration policies must be reformed to serve the national interest.

FAIR seeks to improve border security, to stop illegal immigration, and to promote immigration levels consistent with the national interest—more traditional rates of about 300,000 a year.

With more than 250,000 members and supporters nationwide, FAIR is a non-partisan group whose membership runs the gamut from liberal to conservative.Our grassroots networks help concerned citizens use their voices to speak up for effective, sensible immigration policies that work for America’s best interests.

FAIR’s publications and research are used by academics and government officials in preparing new legislation.National and international media regularly turn to us to understand the latest immigration developments and to shed light on this complex subject.FAIR has been called to testify on immigration bills before Congress more than any organization in America

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so why should i believe you when you say they are partisan? and methinks you have an agenda as shown by your previous statements

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Yep, wouldn't want to actually get any kind of revenue from Spanish speakers, now would we? That would be horrible! Along with the SS taxes and federal taxes that are paid but benefits never claimed, it's a horrible thing they are adding a slush to these things!

Illegal aliens are a net cost in the range of $10bn p.a. That is despite their fueling the race to the bottom for US workers.

There are sources stating the complete opposite, eg, net gain of same, so we can go round and round posting links, but suffice it to say, we don't agree on this.

Right. The net gain. The only one's gaining are the foreign governments that are on the receiving end of the USD outflow as well as the profiteers that exploit illegal labor. The rest of us pays the bill whether you want to admit it or not.

[Alex+R 0]

Charles, when you post facts instead of partisan BS, then I'll take what you post into account. FAIR is probably the worst place to look for unbiased facts. Find some data from someone without an agenda.

ah yes. here is the mission statement from their website:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a national, nonprofit, public-interest, membership organization of concerned citizens who share a common belief that our nation's immigration policies must be reformed to serve the national interest.

FAIR seeks to improve border security, to stop illegal immigration, and to promote immigration levels consistent with the national interest—more traditional rates of about 300,000 a year.

With more than 250,000 members and supporters nationwide, FAIR is a non-partisan group whose membership runs the gamut from liberal to conservative.Our grassroots networks help concerned citizens use their voices to speak up for effective, sensible immigration policies that work for America’s best interests.

FAIR’s publications and research are used by academics and government officials in preparing new legislation.National and international media regularly turn to us to understand the latest immigration developments and to shed light on this complex subject.FAIR has been called to testify on immigration bills before Congress more than any organization in America

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so why should i believe you when you say they are partisan? and methinks you have an agenda as shown by your previous statements

All right they claim to be non-partisan. But they admit their bias right there in the mission statement. It's too bad you get so caught up in semantics, Chuck.

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

Charles, when you post facts instead of partisan BS, then I'll take what you post into account. FAIR is probably the worst place to look for unbiased facts. Find some data from someone without an agenda.

ah yes. here is the mission statement from their website:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a national, nonprofit, public-interest, membership organization of concerned citizens who share a common belief that our nation's immigration policies must be reformed to serve the national interest.

FAIR seeks to improve border security, to stop illegal immigration, and to promote immigration levels consistent with the national interest—more traditional rates of about 300,000 a year.

With more than 250,000 members and supporters nationwide, FAIR is a non-partisan group whose membership runs the gamut from liberal to conservative.Our grassroots networks help concerned citizens use their voices to speak up for effective, sensible immigration policies that work for America’s best interests.

FAIR’s publications and research are used by academics and government officials in preparing new legislation.National and international media regularly turn to us to understand the latest immigration developments and to shed light on this complex subject.FAIR has been called to testify on immigration bills before Congress more than any organization in America

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so why should i believe you when you say they are partisan? and methinks you have an agenda as shown by your previous statements

All right they claim to be non-partisan. But they admit their bias right there in the mission statement. It's too bad you get so caught up in semantics, Chuck.

oh right, they are partisan.........cause you say so

[Alex+R 0]

Charles, do you know the difference between "partisan" and "biased"?

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

Charles, do you know the difference between "partisan" and "biased"?

just keep throwing out words. first it was partisan, now it's biased. and now it's biased because you say so

[Alex+R 0]

Charles, do you know the difference between "partisan" and "biased"?

just keep throwing out words. first it was partisan, now it's biased. and now it's biased because you say so

I sent you a PM.

[Caladan 19]

. Since you seem to think that US citizenship birthright isn't a big magnet as it is, then why not put away with it? I mean, you seem to think that nobody gains anything from it anyways. So then why defend it so much?

Because in a country composed of immigrants of all stripes, I find discriminating against a child born here on whether their parents had the right paperwork abhorrent. That's basically it. I see it as part of the American identity that if you're born here, you're ours. We don't care where you're family's from, what color they are, what religion they are, how poor they are.

We're not like Europe. We don't have hundreds of years forming a national identity. I think that the idea of birthright citizenship plays into our cultural ideals of a melting pot (or tossed salad or whatever the metaphor is these days), and I think without that, we lose something very American, very unique, and very valuable.

I also don't think it's anywhere near a big magnet as the economic factors for illegal immigration. So stripping away something I think is important that in all likelihood will have a very small effect on illegal immigration doesn't seem to me to be a good cost.

Edited January 11, 2007 by Caladan