Social Security benefits for illegal aliens?

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

The minute a child steps into my country, they are my responsibility, as well as the responsibility of all other Americans.

my oh my, such a great debt you feel to society, which you propose paying for with the tax dollars of everyone else. furthermore, just because you say it's the responsibility of all other americans don't make that a fact either.

[Reynaldo 0]

The minute a child steps into my country, they are my responsibility, as well as the responsibility of all other Americans.

my oh my, such a great debt you feel to society, which you propose paying for with the tax dollars of everyone else. furthermore, just because you say it's the responsibility of all other americans don't make that a fact either.

Charles, does anyone believe the same things you do?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I resent someone else telling me what my responsibilities are.

[peezey 0]

I resent someone else telling me what my responsibilities are.

Anyone else? Or just someone in this thread talking about something you don't agree with?

You spend your life being told how your tax dollars will be spent, do you spend your life resentful?

[Reynaldo 0]

I resent someone else telling me what my responsibilities are.

Anyone else? Or just someone in this thread talking about something you don't agree with?

You spend your life being told how your tax dollars will be spent, do you spend your life resentful?

That is a sad sad life to live...

[Boiler 44,929]

The minute a child steps into my country, they are my responsibility, as well as the responsibility of all other Americans.

So if they entered illegal, it is your personal responsibility, as well as that of every other Ameirican to see that they are repatriated as quickly and as humanely as possible.

Seems fair enough.

I think all posting on this thread have something to agree on.

Edited January 10, 2007 by Boiler

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

lol. Tax dollars are different, you get to vote for the people who play a role in that process. What I resent is self-appointed ambassadors of righteousness telling me what and who I am responsible for.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What I resent is self-appointed ambassadors of righteousness telling me what and who I am responsible for.

Where's the applause smiley when you need it?

[Reynaldo 0]

What I resent is self-appointed ambassadors of righteousness telling me what and who I am responsible for.

Where's the applause smiley when you need it?

It is not her fault you don't have any civics...

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

What I resent is self-appointed ambassadors of righteousness telling me what and who I am responsible for.

Where's the applause smiley when you need it?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Charles,

A minor child has no choice in where he/she lives. He/she goes where mommy/daddy takes 'em. I don't know about you but when I was young I didn't get to question their decisions

A person who involuntarily commits a crime is not a criminal.

The other side of the argument is the illegal mother & illegal father does not have to have a baby here in US.

They should abort their pregnancies then?

Believe it or not, people come here specifically for the purpose of having their baby here. The way things are set-up, they're encouraged to do so. That's gotta stop. Take away the automatic citizenship for the child and and make sure to hand those folks the bill to be paid.

I think taking away automatic citizenship for children of illegal aliens is a reasonable move. I don't think taking away ANYTHING except citizenship in name for those kids is acceptable. They did not choose to live in the U.S.

But just because they did not choose to live in the US doesn't entitle them to anything. The kids are the parents' responsibility not mine or yours.

ETA: Children born in the US to legal non-immigrants should not have any claim to US citizenship either. I don't see why a baby born to someone here on a tourist or work visa should be a US citizen.

And just what does being born in general entitle a person to? What about someone like me who was born here from U.S. parents? That entitles me to citizenship? What about my father? His mother was an immigrant from Ireland who came on a boat at the age of 9. Do you suppose she had to go through some complicated legal process that entitled her to citizenship? I think you need to look beyond the idea of citizenship as something one must rightfully earn.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What I resent is self-appointed ambassadors of righteousness telling me what and who I am responsible for.

Where's the applause smiley when you need it?

It is not her fault you don't have any civics...

No civics? What are you smoking?

[Caladan 19]

Automatic citizenship is not up for grabs barring some serious Constituational work (amendment or reinterpretation, depending on who you talk to. I'm thinking it would take an amendment.)

Politically, it's [abolishing automatic citizenship] off the table. Morally, it should be, because what replaces is likely a complicated system of second-class native-born-but-not-citizens. The potential for abuse is ridiculously high.

Complicated system with potential for abuse? What? If you're born in Germany, for example, to Russian parents that are not legal residents in Germany, then you're Russian. That's not very complicated and I don't see the abuse potential.

The sort of situation I'm thinking of is just akin to trying to get a SS number after immigrating legally. Tons of paperwork, clueless administrators, people who don't understand what's going on. I think someone's citizenship is too important to tie to whether their parents filed the paperwork properly, especially given the government's track record in these matters. This ignores completely the sorts of race and class problems bound to crop up. (e.g., are we going to offer the paperwork in Spanish? Are we going to require the parents to be permanent residents, or just legal workers?) Practically, we just have too much immigration to make this workable.

I also think the 'they're using their children to stay here!' argument is a red herring. Yes, it does happen, not denying that. But getting rid of this incentive isn't going to dampen significantly, imo, the incentives to immigrate illegally. Meaning that instead of having people stay home and have children there, they still come here (the jobs are still here), still have kids, only now those kids have access to nothing. You might be okay with that, but you're probably not okay with creating a permanent Hispanic underclass with no voting rights or safety net. That's just a recipe for societal instability.

Politically, though, I think this option is off the table. Suppose the magic immigration fairy waves her wand and gives citizenship only for legal immigrants. This doesn't do a damned thing to address the current problem, unless we're going to go about stripping elementary schoolers of their citizenship. It's not going to be retroactive.

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

What I resent is self-appointed ambassadors of righteousness telling me what and who I am responsible for.

Where's the applause smiley when you need it?

It is not her fault you don't have any civics...

No civics? What are you smoking?

et does not own hondas!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Automatic citizenship is not up for grabs barring some serious Constituational work (amendment or reinterpretation, depending on who you talk to. I'm thinking it would take an amendment.)

Politically, it's [abolishing automatic citizenship] off the table. Morally, it should be, because what replaces is likely a complicated system of second-class native-born-but-not-citizens. The potential for abuse is ridiculously high.

Complicated system with potential for abuse? What? If you're born in Germany, for example, to Russian parents that are not legal residents in Germany, then you're Russian. That's not very complicated and I don't see the abuse potential.

The sort of situation I'm thinking of is just akin to trying to get a SS number after immigrating legally. Tons of paperwork, clueless administrators, people who don't understand what's going on. I think someone's citizenship is too important to tie to whether their parents filed the paperwork properly, especially given the government's track record in these matters. This ignores completely the sorts of race and class problems bound to crop up. (e.g., are we going to offer the paperwork in Spanish? Are we going to require the parents to be permanent residents, or just legal workers?) Practically, we just have too much immigration to make this workable.

I also think the 'they're using their children to stay here!' argument is a red herring. Yes, it does happen, not denying that. But getting rid of this incentive isn't going to dampen significantly, imo, the incentives to immigrate illegally. Meaning that instead of having people stay home and have children there, they still come here (the jobs are still here), still have kids, only now those kids have access to nothing. You might be okay with that, but you're probably not okay with creating a permanent Hispanic underclass with no voting rights or safety net. That's just a recipe for societal instability.

Politically, though, I think this option is off the table. Suppose the magic immigration fairy waves her wand and gives citizenship only for legal immigrants. This doesn't do a damned thing to address the current problem, unless we're going to go about stripping elementary schoolers of their citizenship. It's not going to be retroactive.