Social Security benefits for illegal aliens?

[Alex+R 0]

Re: the Encouragement issue, though, Boiler, I don't think many immigrants come here because of the health benefits. Most immigrants (I forget where I read this last month) are way healthier than the average American. And I read in the NyTimes last week that the Hispanic immigrant population (legal and illegal) live much longer than white and black Americans, and the article suggested it was because healthier people immigrate while sicker or weaker people stay back home.

It's not like the health system is a major incentive.

Charles,

A minor child has no choice in where he/she lives. He/she goes where mommy/daddy takes 'em. I don't know about you but when I was young I didn't get to question their decisions

A person who involuntarily commits a crime is not a criminal.

Illegal presence is not a crime.

As far as Medical Insurance is concerned there is no national system in the US and like everthing else, limited resources.

So if you provide free cover for visitors then you are both:

- Encouraging such behaviour

- Denying resources to other people.

How do you explain your position to someone who does 'play by the rules', sorry you are just going to have to suffer because our budget is taken up catering for those who do not?

I mean, even Argentines offer to their turists free healthcare (even free Dental care)...

And they think they are God.

What a small mind some of you, Americans, have....

Thanks for the info.

What do they do differently in Argentines so that they do not have 12+ million illegals? Or is illegal immigration an issue there too ?

They do have illegal immigrants from outside the South American area that is permitted to live and work in Argentina. But their issue is not illegal immigration so much as a recent economic collapse and crushing poverty of their own citizens. They still are able to make health care a priority. Interesting.

[Reynaldo 0]

Thanks for the info.

What do they do differently in Argentines so that they do not have 12+ million illegals? Or is illegal immigration an issue there too ?

That would be a valid point if your gov't provided free healthcare for its citizens, which it doesn't...

ETA:

I mean, people don't cross the border to get medical treatment.

And giving them free healthcare will not encourage them to come, the fact that you have enough jobs americans wont do is encouraging enough.

Edited January 9, 2007 by Reynaldo

[Boiler 46,300]

I would not trust the NY Times as a source.

From an actuarial point of view it does not sound logical, there are certainly some racial differences, but we are not dealing with a racial issue.

And why would people of Spanish heritage haver a longer life expectancy than say Italian heritage, just thinking of another major NY immigrant group from the same region.

It would also suggest that Hispanics would qualify for cheaper Life Insurance.

[Alex+R 0]

I would not trust the NY Times as a source.

From an actuarial point of view it does not sound logical, there are certainly some racial differences, but we are not dealing with a racial issue.

And why would people of Spanish heritage haver a longer life expectancy than say Italian heritage, just thinking of another major NY immigrant group from the same region.

It would also suggest that Hispanics would qualify for cheaper Life Insurance.

It wasn't like, a NYTimes column. It was a study done on immigrants of that group (not just the race in general). That should answer all of your questions.

[Boiler 46,300]

Thanks for the info.

What do they do differently in Argentines so that they do not have 12+ million illegals? Or is illegal immigration an issue there too ?

That would be a valid point if your gov't provided free healthcare for its citizens, which it doesn't...

ETA:

I mean, people don't cross the border to get medical treatment.

And giving them free healthcare will not encourage them to come, the fact that you have enough jobs americans wont do is encouraging enough.

My gut feel is that whilst some may, most do not. I did sit next to a Doctor on a Plane who worked near the Texan Border, and certainly they did, and many Hospitals have had to close due to the pressure from non paying customers.

Probably the biggest draw by far is work and wages, education maybe, but this does not appear to be held in such high regard. Healthcare, well most of us think we are immortal.

But you can look on ot as a package. And then of corse there is a large criminal element where the ability to flit across really helps.

[Boiler 46,300]

I would not trust the NY Times as a source.

From an actuarial point of view it does not sound logical, there are certainly some racial differences, but we are not dealing with a racial issue.

And why would people of Spanish heritage haver a longer life expectancy than say Italian heritage, just thinking of another major NY immigrant group from the same region.

It would also suggest that Hispanics would qualify for cheaper Life Insurance.

It wasn't like, a NYTimes column. It was a study done on immigrants of that group (not just the race in general). That should answer all of your questions.

Not really.

I know certain Asiatics have a longer life span that say Caucasians, and Blacks have a shorter one.

Some of these difference disappear when subjected to a common lifestyle.

Probably they are comparing those who have immigrated with a healthier lifestyle and have yet to become fully Americanised.

Cetainly from observation of where I live there is more obesity in the Hispanic community. Which implies shorter life sapn.

[Alex+R 0]

I would not trust the NY Times as a source.

From an actuarial point of view it does not sound logical, there are certainly some racial differences, but we are not dealing with a racial issue.

And why would people of Spanish heritage haver a longer life expectancy than say Italian heritage, just thinking of another major NY immigrant group from the same region.

It would also suggest that Hispanics would qualify for cheaper Life Insurance.

It wasn't like, a NYTimes column. It was a study done on immigrants of that group (not just the race in general). That should answer all of your questions.

Not really.

I know certain Asiatics have a longer life span that say Caucasians, and Blacks have a shorter one.

Some of these difference disappear when subjected to a common lifestyle.

Probably they are comparing those who have immigrated with a healthier lifestyle and have yet to become fully Americanised.

Cetainly from observation of where I live there is more obesity in the Hispanic community. Which implies shorter life sapn.

They were profiling some of the old people who still had the same eating habits as they did in Mexico (this was on Mexicans). That was another guess. Either way you're thinking about this from the wrong angle.

[Boiler 46,300]

I would not trust the NY Times as a source.

From an actuarial point of view it does not sound logical, there are certainly some racial differences, but we are not dealing with a racial issue.

And why would people of Spanish heritage haver a longer life expectancy than say Italian heritage, just thinking of another major NY immigrant group from the same region.

It would also suggest that Hispanics would qualify for cheaper Life Insurance.

It wasn't like, a NYTimes column. It was a study done on immigrants of that group (not just the race in general). That should answer all of your questions.

Not really.

I know certain Asiatics have a longer life span that say Caucasians, and Blacks have a shorter one.

Some of these difference disappear when subjected to a common lifestyle.

Probably they are comparing those who have immigrated with a healthier lifestyle and have yet to become fully Americanised.

Cetainly from observation of where I live there is more obesity in the Hispanic community. Which implies shorter life sapn.

They were profiling some of the old people who still had the same eating habits as they did in Mexico (this was on Mexicans). That was another guess. Either way you're thinking about this from the wrong angle.

Sounds like another study of the bleeding obvious, any group that eats a non 'American' diet is most likely to have a healthier life style, wherever they come from.

Seem to remember something similar about the French having a greater resistance to heart disease due to odd tipple of red wine. No doubt does not apply to French who have americanised.

[peejay 327]

How do you explain your position to someone who does 'play by the rules', sorry you are just going to have to suffer because our budget is taken up catering for those who do not?

Easy. I explain to them what should be obvious to all of you. Adults and minors are not the same. Minors have little say in where they live. They can not be held to the same standards as adults.

By the way, the corollary to my argument is this - that when you deport illegal adults, their children (legal or not) should go with them too. Preserve the family structure over all. Give the children their treatment (you know, so they don't die - it's the pro-life thing to do) and then send em home.

Bingo! Ditto for me too.

Anchor babies? Anchored to what? How about anchored to their parents until they are old enough to fend for themselves. Including returning with their deported illegal alien parents to their parent's country. Babies are born all over the world and they have no inherent right to be born in America by illegal aliens to derive undeserved benefits.

Until then it is highly retarded for their illegal alien parents to be anchored to the US through their children. This is nothing more than a total abuse of a broken system. Citizenship birthright is an antiquated system that should have been abolished long ago in our modern Western industrialized welfare state of America.

It is high time that 21st century America policy modernize with reality and do what many other Western industrialized welfare state democracies have done long ago...end birthright citizenship for illegal alien children.

[Boiler 46,300]

How do you explain your position to someone who does 'play by the rules', sorry you are just going to have to suffer because our budget is taken up catering for those who do not?

Easy. I explain to them what should be obvious to all of you. Adults and minors are not the same. Minors have little say in where they live. They can not be held to the same standards as adults.

By the way, the corollary to my argument is this - that when you deport illegal adults, their children (legal or not) should go with them too. Preserve the family structure over all. Give the children their treatment (you know, so they don't die - it's the pro-life thing to do) and then send em home.

Bingo! Ditto for me too.

Anchor babies? Anchored to what? How about anchored to their parents until they are old enough to fend for themselves. Including returning with their deported illegal alien parents to their parent's country. Babies are born all over the world and they have no inherent right to be born in America by illegal aliens to derive undeserved benefits.

Until then it is highly retarded for their illegal alien parents to be anchored to the US through their children. This is nothing more than a total abuse of a broken system. Citizenship birthright is an antiquated system that should have been abolished long ago in our modern Western industrialized welfare state of America.

It is high time that 21st century America policy modernize with reality and do what many other Western industrialized welfare state democracies have done long ago...end birthright citizenship for illegal alien children.

I do not think this is an issue pertinant to Western Countries.

Not aware of any other country that has it, must be one at least you would think.

Nor am I aware of any that have had it in the past and abolished it.

Very much a USA thing.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

How do you explain your position to someone who does 'play by the rules', sorry you are just going to have to suffer because our budget is taken up catering for those who do not?

Easy. I explain to them what should be obvious to all of you. Adults and minors are not the same. Minors have little say in where they live. They can not be held to the same standards as adults.

By the way, the corollary to my argument is this - that when you deport illegal adults, their children (legal or not) should go with them too. Preserve the family structure over all. Give the children their treatment (you know, so they don't die - it's the pro-life thing to do) and then send em home.

Well said.

[Dean iWait 0]

This is nothing. Wait until you see the new immigration bill that the new congress will introduce and the president will be sure to sign. I expect it to be very similar to the bill the senate tried to pass to congress last year before they killed it. It included wording that would give an illegal alien social security benefits who had stolen the identity and social security number of a US citizen and forged documents to live and work in the US. I saw John McCain supporting it. He stated even though they stole someone's identity that they did work all those years and pay in to the system, so they really deserve the benefits. I have never seen politicians more blatantly ignore the will of the people like they are on the issue of immigration. I mean it makes it so obvious that all they care about is getting re-elected. So give 12 million people citizenship and gain their votes.

[Ban Hammer 13,659]

Sure, kids die everywhere. We have the power to control whether or not they die because of lack of medical care right here in our own country. That's why we should do it, no matter how they got there. Because that kid didn't choose to be born to illegal parents in or outside the U.S.

There are so many things wrong with what you just said that I can't even begin to address one of them.

I can honestly say you make me sick. I have now lost all respect for you.

eta: I know that was harsh, and I'm sorry. I think you are probably just blind to what it is you're saying. I honestly don't believe someone who loves animals as much as you do could have such cruel attitudes toward small children, so, I'm sorry.

i'm really not concerned if you have lost respect for me. i will sleep tonight, and quite well. seriously, where are your priorities? are you trying to save the world? shall i call you dawn quixote? you can get all worked up about this if you want, that's your problem. the fact remains this is america and in my mind, americans come first. and that excludes an illegals anchor baby too, btw.

do you really for one microsecond believe that you would get the same aplogist treatment in one of these countries that a large majority of the illegals come from? probably not. my answer to it is this:

and btw, animals have it a lot tougher since bleeding hearts like you want to throw money at a problem that isn't ours (i.e. america's) ;)' but you are still free to come eat corn from the deer feeder out back if it makes you feel better

on another note, it consistently amazes me how the younger crowd that generally does not have a pot to piss in thinks america owes subsidizes to everyone.

[Ban Hammer 13,659]

I mean, even Argentines offer to their turists free healthcare (even free Dental care)...

And they think they are God.

What a small mind some of you, Americans, have....

i'd be hard pressed to think free argentinian dental care is worthwhile.

and from the pics i've seen of some argentinians, i think they have yet to discover tooth whitening

I know what you mean, and in fact I was talking to a good friend who is a teacher in Phoenix. One third of the K-6 school she works at is illegal and she was brought in (Teach for America) because of a teacher shortage. There are all kinds of problems like that.

But those things aren't going to stop illegal immigration. That's why we need a realistic solution, IMO, not just making it harder and harder to be illegal. They still come.

alex, just how do you think that school gets money? when you're a homeowner, you'll find out

My gut feel is that whilst some may, most do not. I did sit next to a Doctor on a Plane who worked near the Texan Border, and certainly they did, and many Hospitals have had to close due to the pressure from non paying customers.

and in arizona and one of the hospitals in los angeles

[peejay 327]

How do you explain your position to someone who does 'play by the rules', sorry you are just going to have to suffer because our budget is taken up catering for those who do not?

Easy. I explain to them what should be obvious to all of you. Adults and minors are not the same. Minors have little say in where they live. They can not be held to the same standards as adults.

By the way, the corollary to my argument is this - that when you deport illegal adults, their children (legal or not) should go with them too. Preserve the family structure over all. Give the children their treatment (you know, so they don't die - it's the pro-life thing to do) and then send em home.

Bingo! Ditto for me too.

Anchor babies? Anchored to what? How about anchored to their parents until they are old enough to fend for themselves. Including returning with their deported illegal alien parents to their parent's country. Babies are born all over the world and they have no inherent right to be born in America by illegal aliens to derive undeserved benefits.

Until then it is highly retarded for their illegal alien parents to be anchored to the US through their children. This is nothing more than a total abuse of a broken system. Citizenship birthright is an antiquated system that should have been abolished long ago in our modern Western industrialized welfare state of America.

It is high time that 21st century America policy modernize with reality and do what many other Western industrialized welfare state democracies have done long ago...end birthright citizenship for illegal alien children.

I do not think this is an issue pertinant to Western Countries.

Not aware of any other country that has it, must be one at least you would think.

Nor am I aware of any that have had it in the past and abolished it.

Very much a USA thing.

Here is the laws of countries around the world in regards to citizenship. Go see how most of the Western industrialized welfare democracies deal with it. Laws change with the times and with modern realities all the time. The reality is that the American taxpayer is being screwed by illegal aliens abusing our system. It shouldn't be that way. It should be about what is best for America. Not about some bleeding heart notion that is not financially sustainable or in our best interests.

http://www.opm.gov/extra/investigate/IS-01.pdf

Look at Canada. Illegal alien + illegal alien = illegal alien. They don't confer automatic citizenship on the children of illegal aliens. Even the UK is not as generous as the USA. America is stuck in the 19th century and early 20th century. Time for a change.