Social Security benefits for illegal aliens?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm tired of multinational corporations who manipulate trade agreements in their favor which destroy neighboring economies where people have a choice of either starving or immigrating where they have a chance for survival.

So, everyone is losing out on NAFTA? Or Mexican jobs are being brought up to the US? Is that what you're saying?

The Impact of U.S. Trade Policies on Immigration

In the 1990s , the U.S. has allowed record numbers of immigrants into the U.S. Legal permanent immigrants have entered at rates of nearly a million annually. This level of new prospective citizens by itself ensures that immigrants and their families provide the fastest growing sector of the U.S. population.

The recently liberalized U.S. policies in supplying foreign workers to fulfill industrial needs are producing still more immigrants. These include 600,000 workers and family members under the Permanent Worker Certification Program and over 1 million temporary workers. Many temporary of these temporary workers become illegal immigrants by staying on after their visas have expired.The H-1B program has brought in another quarter million workers for "specialty occupation" employment needs since 1990. Many of these are used for good paying specialty jobs for which there is already an excess of college graduates in the U.S. Trade agreements like NAFTA expand this already swollen pool by assuring that the employees of businesses in the U.S. owned by our NAFTA partners may enter for unlimited periods. In addition there are dozens of occupations for which our trade agreements allow immigrants from Mexico and Canada to reside and work in the U.S. without time limits. All of these policies have contributed to reducing the number of good jobs available to U.S. workers as well as lowering wages.

http://www.siliconv.com/trade/tradepapers/immigration.html

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'm tired of multinational corporations who manipulate trade agreements in their favor which destroy neighboring economies where people have a choice of either starving or immigrating where they have a chance for survival.

So, everyone is losing out on NAFTA? Or Mexican jobs are being brought up to the US? Is that what you're saying?

The Impact of U.S. Trade Policies on Immigration

In the 1990s , the U.S. has allowed record numbers of immigrants into the U.S. Legal permanent immigrants have entered at rates of nearly a million annually. This level of new prospective citizens by itself ensures that immigrants and their families provide the fastest growing sector of the U.S. population.

The recently liberalized U.S. policies in supplying foreign workers to fulfill industrial needs are producing still more immigrants. These include 600,000 workers and family members under the Permanent Worker Certification Program and over 1 million temporary workers. Many temporary of these temporary workers become illegal immigrants by staying on after their visas have expired.The H-1B program has brought in another quarter million workers for "specialty occupation" employment needs since 1990. Many of these are used for good paying specialty jobs for which there is already an excess of college graduates in the U.S. Trade agreements like NAFTA expand this already swollen pool by assuring that the employees of businesses in the U.S. owned by our NAFTA partners may enter for unlimited periods. In addition there are dozens of occupations for which our trade agreements allow immigrants from Mexico and Canada to reside and work in the U.S. without time limits. All of these policies have contributed to reducing the number of good jobs available to U.S. workers as well as lowering wages.

http://www.siliconv.com/trade/tradepapers/immigration.html

How does that relate to your original claim that we destroy neighboring economies? By providing lawful employment opportunities to citizens of neighboring countries we destroy their economies?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm tired of multinational corporations who manipulate trade agreements in their favor which destroy neighboring economies where people have a choice of either starving or immigrating where they have a chance for survival.

So, everyone is losing out on NAFTA? Or Mexican jobs are being brought up to the US? Is that what you're saying?

The Impact of U.S. Trade Policies on Immigration

In the 1990s , the U.S. has allowed record numbers of immigrants into the U.S. Legal permanent immigrants have entered at rates of nearly a million annually. This level of new prospective citizens by itself ensures that immigrants and their families provide the fastest growing sector of the U.S. population.

The recently liberalized U.S. policies in supplying foreign workers to fulfill industrial needs are producing still more immigrants. These include 600,000 workers and family members under the Permanent Worker Certification Program and over 1 million temporary workers. Many temporary of these temporary workers become illegal immigrants by staying on after their visas have expired.The H-1B program has brought in another quarter million workers for "specialty occupation" employment needs since 1990. Many of these are used for good paying specialty jobs for which there is already an excess of college graduates in the U.S. Trade agreements like NAFTA expand this already swollen pool by assuring that the employees of businesses in the U.S. owned by our NAFTA partners may enter for unlimited periods. In addition there are dozens of occupations for which our trade agreements allow immigrants from Mexico and Canada to reside and work in the U.S. without time limits. All of these policies have contributed to reducing the number of good jobs available to U.S. workers as well as lowering wages.

http://www.siliconv.com/trade/tradepapers/immigration.html

How does that relate to your original claim that we destroy neighboring economies? By providing lawful employment opportunities to citizens of neighboring countries we destroy their economies?

The only real beneficiaries of NAFTA have been the corporations - so they have brought immigrants here for skilled jobs (an influx of legal immigrants, many of whom are now illegal since they're visas have expired) while corporate farms dumped their US subsidized corn onto the Mexican market, forcing millions of Mexican family farmers out of business. How does that jive with you? You want to say that it's not our problem when in fact, yes, it is our problem.

....

One of the best arguments for the North American Free Trade Agreement, one that helped tip the balance in the House's narrow, 234-200, ratification of the pact, was the idea that it would reduce Mexican illegal immigration. NAFTA would make Mexicans richer, and with higher incomes more would stay home.

...

There are some 4 million Mexicans residing illegally in the United States according to INS estimates, and they are still crossing at a rate of about 150,000 per year. Mexico's astounding population growth - which doubled its population in a generation to about 100 million - put even more pressure on the border.

Most of these immigrants come from Mexico's poor farm regions, which have been hurt by NAFTA. Last summer, as the Jan. 1, 2003, deadline for the removal of tariffs from farm products approached, Mexican officials began sounding the alarm.

On New Year's Day, well-subsidized U.S. farmers began selling wheat, rice, potatoes, pork, apples and barley to Mexico duty-free. Under this pressure, Mexico's subsistence farmers are doomed.

"We are facing the prospect of 4 or 5 million peasant farmers deciding that their only option is to cross into the United States," Rodolfo Garcia Zamora of the Autonomous University of Zacatecas told Copley News Service reporter Jerry Kammer.

The situation will get worse in five years when final tariffs are removed on corn, the farm staple that accounts for 55 percent of Mexico's cultivated land. If Mexico's unemployed rice and barley farmers seek to cross the border, what happens when its 4 million corn farmers are out of business?

http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/ftaa/503.html

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'm tired of multinational corporations who manipulate trade agreements in their favor which destroy neighboring economies where people have a choice of either starving or immigrating where they have a chance for survival.

So, everyone is losing out on NAFTA? Or Mexican jobs are being brought up to the US? Is that what you're saying?

The Impact of U.S. Trade Policies on Immigration

In the 1990s , the U.S. has allowed record numbers of immigrants into the U.S. Legal permanent immigrants have entered at rates of nearly a million annually. This level of new prospective citizens by itself ensures that immigrants and their families provide the fastest growing sector of the U.S. population.

The recently liberalized U.S. policies in supplying foreign workers to fulfill industrial needs are producing still more immigrants. These include 600,000 workers and family members under the Permanent Worker Certification Program and over 1 million temporary workers. Many temporary of these temporary workers become illegal immigrants by staying on after their visas have expired.The H-1B program has brought in another quarter million workers for "specialty occupation" employment needs since 1990. Many of these are used for good paying specialty jobs for which there is already an excess of college graduates in the U.S. Trade agreements like NAFTA expand this already swollen pool by assuring that the employees of businesses in the U.S. owned by our NAFTA partners may enter for unlimited periods. In addition there are dozens of occupations for which our trade agreements allow immigrants from Mexico and Canada to reside and work in the U.S. without time limits. All of these policies have contributed to reducing the number of good jobs available to U.S. workers as well as lowering wages.

http://www.siliconv.com/trade/tradepapers/immigration.html

How does that relate to your original claim that we destroy neighboring economies? By providing lawful employment opportunities to citizens of neighboring countries we destroy their economies?

The only real beneficiaries of NAFTA have been the corporations - so they have brought immigrants here for skilled jobs (an influx of legal immigrants, many of whom are now illegal since they're visas have expired) while corporate farms dumped their US subsidized corn onto the Mexican market, forcing millions of Mexican family farmers out of business. How does that jive with you? You want to say that it's not our problem when in fact, yes, it is our problem.

....

One of the best arguments for the North American Free Trade Agreement, one that helped tip the balance in the House's narrow, 234-200, ratification of the pact, was the idea that it would reduce Mexican illegal immigration. NAFTA would make Mexicans richer, and with higher incomes more would stay home.

...

There are some 4 million Mexicans residing illegally in the United States according to INS estimates, and they are still crossing at a rate of about 150,000 per year. Mexico's astounding population growth - which doubled its population in a generation to about 100 million - put even more pressure on the border.

Most of these immigrants come from Mexico's poor farm regions, which have been hurt by NAFTA. Last summer, as the Jan. 1, 2003, deadline for the removal of tariffs from farm products approached, Mexican officials began sounding the alarm.

On New Year's Day, well-subsidized U.S. farmers began selling wheat, rice, potatoes, pork, apples and barley to Mexico duty-free. Under this pressure, Mexico's subsistence farmers are doomed.

"We are facing the prospect of 4 or 5 million peasant farmers deciding that their only option is to cross into the United States," Rodolfo Garcia Zamora of the Autonomous University of Zacatecas told Copley News Service reporter Jerry Kammer.

The situation will get worse in five years when final tariffs are removed on corn, the farm staple that accounts for 55 percent of Mexico's cultivated land. If Mexico's unemployed rice and barley farmers seek to cross the border, what happens when its 4 million corn farmers are out of business?

http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/ftaa/503.html

So, what do you tell the US worker that loses his job as it is exported to Mexico and then he can't find another as an illegal alien from Mexico is already working it? That Mexican may have made it to that job passing by the US planyt in Mexico where the job of the US worker now resides. This really cuts both ways. And either way, the lack of employment opportunities doesn't justfy what's happening here.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm tired of multinational corporations who manipulate trade agreements in their favor which destroy neighboring economies where people have a choice of either starving or immigrating where they have a chance for survival.

So, everyone is losing out on NAFTA? Or Mexican jobs are being brought up to the US? Is that what you're saying?

The Impact of U.S. Trade Policies on Immigration

In the 1990s , the U.S. has allowed record numbers of immigrants into the U.S. Legal permanent immigrants have entered at rates of nearly a million annually. This level of new prospective citizens by itself ensures that immigrants and their families provide the fastest growing sector of the U.S. population.

The recently liberalized U.S. policies in supplying foreign workers to fulfill industrial needs are producing still more immigrants. These include 600,000 workers and family members under the Permanent Worker Certification Program and over 1 million temporary workers. Many temporary of these temporary workers become illegal immigrants by staying on after their visas have expired.The H-1B program has brought in another quarter million workers for "specialty occupation" employment needs since 1990. Many of these are used for good paying specialty jobs for which there is already an excess of college graduates in the U.S. Trade agreements like NAFTA expand this already swollen pool by assuring that the employees of businesses in the U.S. owned by our NAFTA partners may enter for unlimited periods. In addition there are dozens of occupations for which our trade agreements allow immigrants from Mexico and Canada to reside and work in the U.S. without time limits. All of these policies have contributed to reducing the number of good jobs available to U.S. workers as well as lowering wages.

http://www.siliconv.com/trade/tradepapers/immigration.html

How does that relate to your original claim that we destroy neighboring economies? By providing lawful employment opportunities to citizens of neighboring countries we destroy their economies?

The only real beneficiaries of NAFTA have been the corporations - so they have brought immigrants here for skilled jobs (an influx of legal immigrants, many of whom are now illegal since they're visas have expired) while corporate farms dumped their US subsidized corn onto the Mexican market, forcing millions of Mexican family farmers out of business. How does that jive with you? You want to say that it's not our problem when in fact, yes, it is our problem.

....

One of the best arguments for the North American Free Trade Agreement, one that helped tip the balance in the House's narrow, 234-200, ratification of the pact, was the idea that it would reduce Mexican illegal immigration. NAFTA would make Mexicans richer, and with higher incomes more would stay home.

...

There are some 4 million Mexicans residing illegally in the United States according to INS estimates, and they are still crossing at a rate of about 150,000 per year. Mexico's astounding population growth - which doubled its population in a generation to about 100 million - put even more pressure on the border.

Most of these immigrants come from Mexico's poor farm regions, which have been hurt by NAFTA. Last summer, as the Jan. 1, 2003, deadline for the removal of tariffs from farm products approached, Mexican officials began sounding the alarm.

On New Year's Day, well-subsidized U.S. farmers began selling wheat, rice, potatoes, pork, apples and barley to Mexico duty-free. Under this pressure, Mexico's subsistence farmers are doomed.

"We are facing the prospect of 4 or 5 million peasant farmers deciding that their only option is to cross into the United States," Rodolfo Garcia Zamora of the Autonomous University of Zacatecas told Copley News Service reporter Jerry Kammer.

The situation will get worse in five years when final tariffs are removed on corn, the farm staple that accounts for 55 percent of Mexico's cultivated land. If Mexico's unemployed rice and barley farmers seek to cross the border, what happens when its 4 million corn farmers are out of business?

http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/ftaa/503.html

So, what do you tell the US worker that loses his job as it is exported to Mexico and then he can't find another as an illegal alien from Mexico is already working it? That Mexican may have made it to that job passing by the US planyt in Mexico where the job of the US worker now resides. This really cuts both ways. And either way, the lack of employment opportunities doesn't justfy what's happening here.

You tell him he's on the same side as the Mexican immigrant who's trying to survive. Grassroot efforts need to be made by combining the American worker with the Mexican immigrant in revamping NAFTA, doing away corporate welfare (subsidies). That would do more towards reducing the number of illegal immigrants who cross our border from Mexico than anything else and it places the responsibility where it belongs. Let's stop villifying the illegal immigrants from Mexico as if they created this mess all by themselves. Most of us would be doing the same if it meant preventing our family from starvation.

Edited January 12, 2007 by Steven_and_Jinky

[peejay 327]

Most of us would be doing the same if it meant preventing our family from starvation.

So I guess they all deserve amnesty, permanent residency, and a fast track to citizenship? And while we are at it...we should just give out free tickets to America for the billions in the world that live in abject poverty. Misery loves company. Who needs borders or immigration laws? LOL

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Most of us would be doing the same if it meant preventing our family from starvation.

So I guess they all deserve amnesty, permanent residency, and a fast track to citizenship? And while we are at it...we should just give out free tickets to America for the billions in the world that live in abject poverty. Misery loves company. Who needs borders or immigration laws? LOL

Why don't we have a problem with illegal immigrants from Canada crossing over into this country? Because they are more law abiding? Come on - if you're not willing to recognize the causes of why they come here in droves then these arguments get us nowhere.

[peejay 327]

Most of us would be doing the same if it meant preventing our family from starvation.

So I guess they all deserve amnesty, permanent residency, and a fast track to citizenship? And while we are at it...we should just give out free tickets to America for the billions in the world that live in abject poverty. Misery loves company. Who needs borders or immigration laws? LOL

Why don't we have a problem with illegal immigrants from Canada crossing over into this country?

Because they don't double their population every 25 years with Third World population growth. They aren't a corrupt oligarchy. Etc., etc., etc.

Comparing Canada and Mexico is about like comparing a racehorse and a donkey.

And blaming the USA for Mexico's problems and insinuating that it is up to us to solve their problems just doesn't wash.

Maybe Hugo Chavez can solve the problems of Mexico...he seems to have all the answers.

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

Why don't we have a problem with illegal immigrants from Canada crossing over into this country? Because they are more law abiding? Come on - if you're not willing to recognize the causes of why they come here in droves then these arguments get us nowhere.

steven, it's due to the michigan border patrol and other states with similar border patrols.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So, what do you tell the US worker that loses his job as it is exported to Mexico and then he can't find another as an illegal alien from Mexico is already working it? That Mexican may have made it to that job passing by the US plant in Mexico where the job of the US worker now resides. This really cuts both ways. And either way, the lack of employment opportunities doesn't justfy what's happening here.

You tell him he's on the same side as the Mexican immigrant who's trying to survive.

See, that's where we disagree. They're not on the same side - the American is at home, while the Mexican is unlawfully invading the American's home. The Mexican that is trying to survive is going to have to address his issues and plight with his government back home in Mexico while the American trying to survive has every right to expect his government here to protect him from the unfair competition in the domestic job market. The illegal alien has nothing to expect from my government but sponges off the various systems we created and fund and even tries to claim "rights" based on prolonged unlawful presence and whatnot anyway. It's ourtrageous. It's like a thief claiming a right a steal so he can survive...

By the way, I just stuck with the Mexican for the sake of the argument. Same goes for illegal aliens of any and all origins. This does explicitly not just apply to those illegals from Mexico.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

So, what do you tell the US worker that loses his job as it is exported to Mexico and then he can't find another as an illegal alien from Mexico is already working it? That Mexican may have made it to that job passing by the US plant in Mexico where the job of the US worker now resides. This really cuts both ways. And either way, the lack of employment opportunities doesn't justfy what's happening here.

You tell him he's on the same side as the Mexican immigrant who's trying to survive.

See, that's where we disagree. They're not on the same side - the American is at home, while the Mexican is unlawfully invading the American's home. The Mexican that is trying to survive is going to have to address his issues and plight with his government back home in Mexico while the American trying to survive has every right to expect his government here to protect him from the unfair competition in the domestic job market. The illegal alien has nothing to expect from my government but sponges off the various systems we created and fund and even tries to claim "rights" based on prolonged unlawful presence and whatnot anyway. It's ourtrageous. It's like a thief claiming a right a steal so he can survive...

By the way, I just stuck with the Mexican for the sake of the argument. Same goes for illegal aliens of any and all origins. This does explicitly not just apply to those illegals from Mexico.

Well, I guess have to agree to disagree. Mexican immigrants, IMO, are different from other immigrants because Mexico is our neighbor whom we've had an historical interdependency. IMO, you should care about your neighbor's welfare especially if your neighborhood is polluting his water (metaphorically speaking).

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

Mexican immigrants, IMO, are different from other immigrants because Mexico is our neighbor whom we've had an historical interdependency.

still can't get the word illegal outta you, can we?