Social Security benefits for illegal aliens?

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

Charles, do you know the difference between "partisan" and "biased"?

just keep throwing out words. first it was partisan, now it's biased. and now it's biased because you say so

I sent you a PM.

and i sent you one back

no, you cannot have my gun collection!

[Boiler 44,931]

. Since you seem to think that US citizenship birthright isn't a big magnet as it is, then why not put away with it? I mean, you seem to think that nobody gains anything from it anyways. So then why defend it so much?

Because in a country composed of immigrants of all stripes, I find discriminating against a child born here on whether their parents had the right paperwork abhorrent. That's basically it. I see it as part of the American identity that if you're born here, you're ours. We don't care where you're family's from, what color they are, what religion they are, how poor they are. I think that the idea of birthright citizenship plays into our cultural ideals of a melting pot (or tossed salad or whatever the metaphor is these days), and I think without that, we lose something very American.

We're not like Europe. We don't have hundreds of years forming a national identity. I think that the idea of birthright citizenship plays into our cultural ideals of a melting pot (or tossed salad or whatever the metaphor is these days), and I think without that, we lose something very American, very unique, and very valuable.

I also don't think it's anywhere near a big magnet as the economic factors for illegal immigration. So stripping away something I think is important that in all likelihood will have a very small effect on illegal immigration doesn't seem to me to be a good cost.

You make it sound like Birthright Citizenship was part of the original contitution, it was a much much later amendment targeted at ensuring that freed Slaves were Citizens.

It has nothing to do with the issues you mention.

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

The latest telephone poll taken by the office of the Governor of Texas

asked whether people who live in Texas think illegal immigration is a

serious problem:

35% of respondents answered: "Yes, it is a serious problem."

65% of respondents answered: "No es un problema senor ."

[one...two...tree 2,762]

. Since you seem to think that US citizenship birthright isn't a big magnet as it is, then why not put away with it? I mean, you seem to think that nobody gains anything from it anyways. So then why defend it so much?

Because in a country composed of immigrants of all stripes, I find discriminating against a child born here on whether their parents had the right paperwork abhorrent. That's basically it. I see it as part of the American identity that if you're born here, you're ours. We don't care where you're family's from, what color they are, what religion they are, how poor they are.

We're not like Europe. We don't have hundreds of years forming a national identity. I think that the idea of birthright citizenship plays into our cultural ideals of a melting pot (or tossed salad or whatever the metaphor is these days), and I think without that, we lose something very American, very unique, and very valuable.

I also don't think it's anywhere near a big magnet as the economic factors for illegal immigration. So stripping away something I think is important that in all likelihood will have a very small effect on illegal immigration doesn't seem to me to be a good cost.

Wow! Well said!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

. Since you seem to think that US citizenship birthright isn't a big magnet as it is, then why not put away with it? I mean, you seem to think that nobody gains anything from it anyways. So then why defend it so much?

Because in a country composed of immigrants of all stripes, I find discriminating against a child born here on whether their parents had the right paperwork abhorrent. That's basically it. I see it as part of the American identity that if you're born here, you're ours. We don't care where you're family's from, what color they are, what religion they are, how poor they are.

I sure don't care as to color, creed or wealth of the family a child is born into. Never have, never will. That ain't the issue. The illegal cheerleading squad just always tries to paint it as such.

There is absolutely nothing discriminating in defining a natural born US citizen as a person born here to parent(s) legally resident in the US. Many nations handle citizenship that way and they ain't discriminating against anyone either.

BTW: The right paperwork? Are you kidding? You make it sound like folks just innocently kind of filed for the incorrect benefit. They are here against the law. And they know it. They pi$$ on our laws day in day out. In many ways, they're really above our law as they can't be effectively held accountable as you or I can for many an infraction. You and I pay for that. Each and every day. And I, for one, am tired of paying their bills.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

. Since you seem to think that US citizenship birthright isn't a big magnet as it is, then why not put away with it? I mean, you seem to think that nobody gains anything from it anyways. So then why defend it so much?

Because in a country composed of immigrants of all stripes, I find discriminating against a child born here on whether their parents had the right paperwork abhorrent. That's basically it. I see it as part of the American identity that if you're born here, you're ours. We don't care where you're family's from, what color they are, what religion they are, how poor they are. I think that the idea of birthright citizenship plays into our cultural ideals of a melting pot (or tossed salad or whatever the metaphor is these days), and I think without that, we lose something very American.

We're not like Europe. We don't have hundreds of years forming a national identity. I think that the idea of birthright citizenship plays into our cultural ideals of a melting pot (or tossed salad or whatever the metaphor is these days), and I think without that, we lose something very American, very unique, and very valuable.

I also don't think it's anywhere near a big magnet as the economic factors for illegal immigration. So stripping away something I think is important that in all likelihood will have a very small effect on illegal immigration doesn't seem to me to be a good cost.

You make it sound like Birthright Citizenship was part of the original contitution, it was a much much later amendment targeted at ensuring that freed Slaves were Citizens.

It has nothing to do with the issues you mention.

Of course it doesn't. Blurring the real issues and putting up smoke screens (race cards, etc) are the usual ways in which the illegal cheerleading squad makes their case.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

. Since you seem to think that US citizenship birthright isn't a big magnet as it is, then why not put away with it? I mean, you seem to think that nobody gains anything from it anyways. So then why defend it so much?

Because in a country composed of immigrants of all stripes, I find discriminating against a child born here on whether their parents had the right paperwork abhorrent. That's basically it. I see it as part of the American identity that if you're born here, you're ours. We don't care where you're family's from, what color they are, what religion they are, how poor they are.

I sure don't care as to color, creed or wealth of the family a child is born into. Never have, never will. That ain't the issue. The illegal cheerleading squad just always tries to paint it as such.

There is absolutely nothing discriminating in defining a natural born US citizen as a person born here to parent(s) legally resident in the US. Many nations handle citizenship that way and they ain't discriminating against anyone either.

BTW: The right paperwork? Are you kidding? You make it sound like folks just innocently kind of filed for the incorrect benefit. They are here against the law. And they know it. They pi$$ on our laws day in day out. In many ways, they're really above our law as they can't be effectively held accountable as you or I can for many an infraction. You and I pay for that. Each and every day. And I, for one, am tired of paying their bills.

I'm tired of multinational corporations who manipulate trade agreements in their favor which destroy neighboring economies where people have a choice of either starving or immigrating where they have a chance for survival.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'm tired of multinational corporations who manipulate trade agreements in their favor which destroy neighboring economies where people have a choice of either starving or immigrating where they have a chance for survival.

So, everyone is losing out on NAFTA? Or Mexican jobs are being brought up to the US? Is that what you're saying?

[Caladan 19]

Lemme try to explain. I'm pretty sure that birthright citizenship were stripped, it would lead to a not-insignificant number of legal residents failing to secure citizenship for their 100% legal kids.

My great-grandparents immigrated here legally. But they weren't educated, and not all that bright, and I'm pretty certain that had they had to prove they were permanent residents in order to get my grandfather citizenship, it wouldn't have happened. Why? Poor, uneducated, very poor English skills, functionally illiterate. They weren't going to manage it on their own, and the rest of society wouldn't have cared. Didn't want those damn wops voting anyway. They're Catholic, too, not real Americans. Can't trust 'em. America is white and Protestant. You get the drill.

I think there's a better-than-even chance that my grandfather, native born, wouldn't have citizenship. Even with legal paperwork. I'd like to believe that there'd be no discrimination against *legal* residents if this were enacted, but that belongs in fantasyland with my pet unicorn.

Would my grandfather have felt more or less American as a result? I'm thinking less. We've been pretty good with assimilating immigrants, and I think that a large part of that is that their kids can vote and shape society. (Studying Irish Catholics taking over the Democratic machine in Boston is illuminating.)

I'm tired of paying their bills, too, but I honestly don't think getting rid of birthright citizenship is going to stop illegal aliens from getting pregnant and having babies here.

[Boiler 44,931]

The latest telephone poll taken by the office of the Governor of Texas

asked whether people who live in Texas think illegal immigration is a

serious problem:

35% of respondents answered: "Yes, it is a serious problem."

65% of respondents answered: "No es un problema senor ."

That's nice!

[Boiler 44,931]

Lemme try to explain. I'm pretty sure that birthright citizenship were stripped, it would lead to a not-insignificant number of legal residents failing to secure citizenship for their 100% legal kids.

My great-grandparents immigrated here legally. But they weren't educated, and not all that bright, and I'm pretty certain that had they had to prove they were permanent residents in order to get my grandfather citizenship, it wouldn't have happened. Why? Poor, uneducated, very poor English skills, functionally illiterate. They weren't going to manage it on their own, and the rest of society wouldn't have cared. Didn't want those damn wops voting anyway. They're Catholic, too, not real Americans. Can't trust 'em. America is white and Protestant. You get the drill.

I think there's a better-than-even chance that my grandfather, native born, wouldn't have citizenship. Even with legal paperwork. I'd like to believe that there'd be no discrimination against *legal* residents if this were enacted, but that belongs in fantasyland with my pet unicorn.

Would my grandfather have felt more or less American as a result? I'm thinking less. We've been pretty good with assimilating immigrants, and I think that a large part of that is that their kids can vote and shape society. (Studying Irish Catholics taking over the Democratic machine in Boston is illuminating.)

I'm tired of paying their bills, too, but I honestly don't think getting rid of birthright citizenship is going to stop illegal aliens from getting pregnant and having babies here.

It is usual for most countries to allow the children of those born there to Residents to apply for Citizenship on their own merits, Normal requirement is for a contious period of residency.

So your Grandfather under this regieme would have been able to obtain Citizenship, if he had wished.

Of course under the current rules you are a Citizen whether you want to be one or not.

[Caladan 19]

. Since you seem to think that US citizenship birthright isn't a big magnet as it is, then why not put away with it? I mean, you seem to think that nobody gains anything from it anyways. So then why defend it so much?

Because in a country composed of immigrants of all stripes, I find discriminating against a child born here on whether their parents had the right paperwork abhorrent. That's basically it. I see it as part of the American identity that if you're born here, you're ours. We don't care where you're family's from, what color they are, what religion they are, how poor they are. I think that the idea of birthright citizenship plays into our cultural ideals of a melting pot (or tossed salad or whatever the metaphor is these days), and I think without that, we lose something very American.

We're not like Europe. We don't have hundreds of years forming a national identity. I think that the idea of birthright citizenship plays into our cultural ideals of a melting pot (or tossed salad or whatever the metaphor is these days), and I think without that, we lose something very American, very unique, and very valuable.

I also don't think it's anywhere near a big magnet as the economic factors for illegal immigration. So stripping away something I think is important that in all likelihood will have a very small effect on illegal immigration doesn't seem to me to be a good cost.

You make it sound like Birthright Citizenship was part of the original contitution, it was a much much later amendment targeted at ensuring that freed Slaves were Citizens.

It has nothing to do with the issues you mention.

I respectfully submit that it does. The idea of America as a "melting pot" doesn't really get popularized until the early 20th century, after the amendment you cite. The idea of American as a national identity is also greatly forged by the Civil War and its aftermath.

Correlation isn't causation, of course. But we have a pretty kickass country, city on the hill, and all that, and surely national identity is part of that.

Why mess with success in a measure that's unlikely to stop the flux of illegal immigration?

[Boiler 44,931]

Why mess with success in a measure that's unlikely to stop the flux of illegal immigration?

It is a numbers game, until relatively recently it did not really matter, a few thousand either way, so what.

I would not call it a success, like I said the issue it addressed was no the current one, another of those laws that had unintended consequences.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Lemme try to explain. I'm pretty sure that birthright citizenship were stripped, it would lead to a not-insignificant number of legal residents failing to secure citizenship for their 100% legal kids.

Lemme just say that I don't buy into this argument. Why? Because a legal resident knows the (s)he is a legal resident. Said resident has managed to go through the process to become a legal resident. If one is capable to go through that process, I am quite comfortable that same person can remember to mention their legal status when the folks from the county office show up following the birth of the child. I mean everyone kind of has to remember their status these days to obtain state ID or DL. People manage that fairly well. Why would they all just suffer some sort amnesia following the birth of their child?

[Boiler 44,931]

Most Residents currently have two lots of paper work to file for children born in the US, one with the US Authorities and one with their own Countries consulate.

As of course do USC'S who have children outside the US.

The difference is that the latter will not get automatic Citizenship of the country concerned.