Obama accuses GOP of imagining voter fraud

[deleted-05292014 331]

See the part in bold? It has nothing to do with voter fraud and it has nothing to do with disproving what I said.

Yes, both sides use voter fraud as a tool to rile up their base and shift the focus from real problems to non-existent ones like voter fraud. The dems use voter fraud just like the republicans do. The dems claim that a voter id law will prevent poor people from voting. Really? How many poor people that vote, do not have id's? Remember, these are the same poor people who need an id to collect gov't benefits, drive a vehicle or do most of any other every day activities. Fact is adults that don't have id's, also do not participate in normal every day society, and they don't usually vote.

Voter fraud is a non-issue, period.

Yes we are in agreement that voter fraud is not a prevalentproblem in our elections.

What I don't agree with you on is this thinking that somehow Democrats are using voter fraud as some sort of distraction or tool to rile up voters. I really don't understand how you can think that, in face of all the laws and changes that have been made starting in 2004. This is not by coincidence. For the last 10 years, Black voter turn out has been steadily increasing. Republican governors have been steadily trying to rig the polls and change the rules to keep Black people out of the voting booth. This is not some theorycraft or made up nonsense. These are actual, factual, measures that we have been fighting against for at least the last 10 years.

People should not be forced to produce an ID to vote. Voting is not a condition, it is an inalienable right. That is what is different from all these stupid memes and people whining, "well you got to have an ID to rent a dvd duh so dont you think you need an id to vote" - no!

#1 You need to produce an ID already to REGISTER to vote. Ok? When you go vote you give the poll workers your name and address. They look you up and check you off. Those rolls are constantly updated and verified. Now what about an elderly person who no longer drives and has no current id? You are wrong, the facts are NOT all adults need IDs to participate in normal every day society. What about a teenager or a young college student who does not drive? We even had Republicans passing laws to forbid college students from using their school IDs.

You're not going to like me saying this, but then again I never really care what people think of me. But as a White man you have NEVER had the threat or really have to fight for your right to vote. Minorities and Women have fought and shed blood for this sacred right, so yes it does hit home pretty hard when we see White men (Republicans) changing the laws and making it more difficult for people to vote. The last time White males have been disenfranchised was the beginning of our Union back in the 18th century when only wealthy White male landowners could vote. So be mindful of the fact that voting has not been a right that everyone in this country has enjoyed. It has been through laws, and federal intervention in many cases that have allowed our democracy to actually work.

When the Supreme court weakens the Voting rights act for those Southern states who have egregiously violated the civil rights of Americans, that is something that not just minorities or women should pay attention to but everyone.

So no you are so wrong when you want to try and equate Democrats & Republicans, there is no equality of action right? Democrats aren't passing laws to make it more difficult for people to vote. You can have your own opinion but the facts speak for themselves.

I repeat voting is an inalienable right, that is not like :

driving a car

checking out a book from a library

buying beer

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Yes we are in agreement that voter fraud is not a prevalentproblem in our elections.

What I don't agree with you on is this thinking that somehow Democrats are using voter fraud as some sort of distraction or tool to rile up voters. I really don't understand how you can think that, in face of all the laws and changes that have been made starting in 2004. This is not by coincidence. For the last 10 years, Black voter turn out has been steadily increasing. Republican governors have been steadily trying to rig the polls and change the rules to keep Black people out of the voting booth. This is not some theorycraft or made up nonsense. These are actual, factual, measures that we have been fighting against for at least the last 10 years.

People should not be forced to produce an ID to vote. Voting is not a condition, it is an inalienable right. That is what is different from all these stupid memes and people whining, "well you got to have an ID to rent a dvd duh so dont you think you need an id to vote" - no!

#1 You need to produce an ID already to REGISTER to vote. Ok? When you go vote you give the poll workers your name and address. They look you up and check you off. Those rolls are constantly updated and verified. Now what about an elderly person who no longer drives and has no current id? You are wrong, the facts are NOT all adults need IDs to participate in normal every day society. What about a teenager or a young college student who does not drive? We even had Republicans passing laws to forbid college students from using their school IDs.

You're not going to like me saying this, but then again I never really care what people think of me. But as a White man you have NEVER had the threat or really have to fight for your right to vote. Minorities and Women have fought and shed blood for this sacred right, so yes it does hit home pretty hard when we see White men (Republicans) changing the laws and making it more difficult for people to vote. The last time White males have been disenfranchised was the beginning of our Union back in the 18th century when only wealthy White male landowners could vote. So be mindful of the fact that voting has not been a right that everyone in this country has enjoyed. It has been through laws, and federal intervention in many cases that have allowed our democracy to actually work.

When the Supreme court weakens the Voting rights act for those Southern states who have egregiously violated the civil rights of Americans, that is something that not just minorities or women should pay attention to but everyone.

So no you are so wrong when you want to try and equate Democrats & Republicans, there is no equality of action right? Democrats aren't passing laws to make it more difficult for people to vote. You can have your own opinion but the facts speak for themselves.

I repeat voting is an inalienable right, that is not like :

driving a car

checking out a book from a library

buying beer

or owning a firearm for protection

How come having to show an ID is not an impermanent or considered an undue burden to collect public benefits ? Certainly that is the same demographic, that it is argued, could not obtain an ID.

[deleted-05292014 331]

or owning a firearm for protection

How come having to show an ID is not an impermanent or considered an undue burden to collect public benefits ? Certainly that is the same demographic, that it is argued, could not obtain an ID.

I've never collected public assistance so I don't know the answer to that. I do have an aunt who is 102 years old and lives in a nursing home, I'm pretty certain she receives some type of benefit and she didn't have to show an ID.

You don't need to have an ID to use a firearm. It's not the same. You only need an ID to buy your firearm, but your right to own and bear arms have no limitations of IDs associated with them.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I've never collected public assistance so I don't know the answer to that. I do have an aunt who is 102 years old and lives in a nursing home, I'm pretty certain she receives some type of benefit and she didn't have to show an ID.

You don't need to have an ID to use a firearm. It's not the same. You only need an ID to buy your firearm, but your right to own and bear arms have no limitations of IDs associated with them.

Wait a moment. What are you saying? You're not actually black?

[/sarcasm]

[deleted-05292014 331]

Wait a moment. What are you saying? You're not actually black?

[/sarcasm]

Yeah I guess I need to round up some homies and go play a game of knock out to validate myself

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Yeah I guess I need to round up some homies and go play a game of knock out to validate myself

now you're talking

[Pooky 3,784]

I repeat voting is an inalienable right, that is not like :

Then show me where the right to vote is explicitly granted within the Constitution, or any of its Amendments.

[deleted-05292014 331]

Then show me where the right to vote is explicitly granted within the Constitution, or any of its Amendments.

The following amendments all cover protections for age, sex, race:

The 15th amendment.

The 19th amendment.

The 26th amendment.

I would also include the 14th amendment which covers citizenship rights and equal protections under the law. I would go further and include the Voters Right act of 1965.

I never said that the right to vote was granted in the Constitution - you did. I said voting is an inalienable right - which I should correct, because I forgot convicted felons lose their right to vote. If you want to get me on semantics fine, but at the age of 18 every American has the right to vote and it is protected by the Constitution.

[deleted-05292014 331]

Also in the case of 2 states, felons do not lose their right to vote.

Maine and Vermont. So in these two examples, voting is inalienable

There are 20 states were convicted felons can regain their right to vote.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Yes we are in agreement that voter fraud is not a prevalentproblem in our elections.

What I don't agree with you on is this thinking that somehow Democrats are using voter fraud as some sort of distraction or tool to rile up voters. I really don't understand how you can think that, in face of all the laws and changes that have been made starting in 2004. This is not by coincidence. For the last 10 years, Black voter turn out has been steadily increasing. Republican governors have been steadily trying to rig the polls and change the rules to keep Black people out of the voting booth. This is not some theorycraft or made up nonsense. These are actual, factual, measures that we have been fighting against for at least the last 10 years.

People should not be forced to produce an ID to vote. Voting is not a condition, it is an inalienable right. That is what is different from all these stupid memes and people whining, "well you got to have an ID to rent a dvd duh so dont you think you need an id to vote" - no!

#1 You need to produce an ID already to REGISTER to vote. Ok? When you go vote you give the poll workers your name and address. They look you up and check you off. Those rolls are constantly updated and verified. Now what about an elderly person who no longer drives and has no current id? You are wrong, the facts are NOT all adults need IDs to participate in normal every day society. What about a teenager or a young college student who does not drive? We even had Republicans passing laws to forbid college students from using their school IDs.

You're not going to like me saying this, but then again I never really care what people think of me. But as a White man you have NEVER had the threat or really have to fight for your right to vote. Minorities and Women have fought and shed blood for this sacred right, so yes it does hit home pretty hard when we see White men (Republicans) changing the laws and making it more difficult for people to vote. The last time White males have been disenfranchised was the beginning of our Union back in the 18th century when only wealthy White male landowners could vote. So be mindful of the fact that voting has not been a right that everyone in this country has enjoyed. It has been through laws, and federal intervention in many cases that have allowed our democracy to actually work.

When the Supreme court weakens the Voting rights act for those Southern states who have egregiously violated the civil rights of Americans, that is something that not just minorities or women should pay attention to but everyone.

So no you are so wrong when you want to try and equate Democrats & Republicans, there is no equality of action right? Democrats aren't passing laws to make it more difficult for people to vote. You can have your own opinion but the facts speak for themselves.

I repeat voting is an inalienable right, that is not like :

driving a car

checking out a book from a library

buying beer

I've already explained that democrats use claims of voter fraud to rile up their base by making it out to be an attack against the poor, because it's supposedly the poor who don't have id's. I don't buy that. There are very few people in this country who are here legally and registered to vote that don't have id's. Just like the claims of wide scale voter fraud by the republicans are false, the claims of wide scale poor people not being able to vote if they need an id is also false. I also stated that if there truly are poor people who cannot afford an id to vote, then the gov't should pick up the tab.

I'm not getting into the whole suppression thing and what I have or haven't experienced as a white man, it's not relevant to this discussion.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Then show me where the right to vote is explicitly granted within the Constitution, or any of its Amendments.

Yours is a very common misunderstanding. The US Constitution is a framework within which our laws and rights are derived. There is a reason why a set of its amendments are called 'Bill of Rights' which demonstrate the original document itself was not mean to be used alone as a be all end all in terms of law. The Constitution is in fact the opposite of that, in that it is the beginning, the base, the cornerstone upon which our laws - rights and all - are built.

You will not find our 'right to vote' in the constitution, but it is pretty much legislated in bills deriving their origins in the constitution. It becomes inalienable when the law specifies the conditions that must be met in order to be afforded this privilege. Nowhere in the law is it specified that any type of id is required, in order to cast a ballot. We've done just fine for over 200 years.

[deleted-05292014 331]

I've already explained that democrats use claims of voter fraud to rile up their base by making it out to be an attack against the poor, because it's supposedly the poor who don't have id's. I don't buy that. There are very few people in this country who are here legally and registered to vote that don't have id's. Just like the claims of wide scale voter fraud by the republicans are false, the claims of wide scale poor people not being able to vote if they need an id is also false. I also stated that if there truly are poor people who cannot afford an id to vote, then the gov't should pick up the tab.

I'm not getting into the whole suppression thing and what I have or haven't experienced as a white man, it's not relevant to this discussion.

According to League of Women voters they post these statistics:

http://www.lwvmn.org/page.aspx?pid=734

• 18 percent of elderly citizens do not have a government-issued photo ID.
• 15 percent of voters earning less than $35,000 a year do not have a photo ID.
• 18 percent of citizens aged 18-24 do not have a government-issued ID with their current address and name.
• 10 percent of voters with disabilities do not have a photo ID.
• 25 percent of African-American citizens of voting age do not have a current, government-issued I

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-laws-mean-some-wont-vote

The Brennan Center posts similar statistics in their report.

http://www.brennancenter.org/publication/voting-law-changes-2012

Of course I'd love it if you can prove your statement, "There are very few people in this country who are here legally and registered to vote that don't have id's"

I'll wait.....

[Peikko 1,575]

Who wants to have the government in charge of who gets to vote again? Oh yeah, that would be the cynical right wingers who favor not having the government interfere. Yay!

[UncleBeer 244]

• 18 percent of elderly citizens do not have a government-issued photo ID.
• 15 percent of voters earning less than $35,000 a year do not have a photo ID.
• 18 percent of citizens aged 18-24 do not have a government-issued ID with their current address and name.
• 10 percent of voters with disabilities do not have a photo ID.
• 25 percent of African-American citizens of voting age do not have a current, government-issued I

...and 64% of Americans don't have a passport. Why? Is it being denied them? No; it's because they choose not to have one.

Seriously: there are so many voter ID assistance programs (including the League of Women Voters who you cite) that if these folks resist taking the trivial steps needed to get whatever assistance they need in getting an ID (which is, as has been said, a modern day necessity, like it or not), then it's probably best they don't vote. And not as a means of 'suppression', but because clearly they aren't taking their franchise awfully seriously. In essence, they're 'voting' by abstention.

[Teddy B 17,252]

According to League of Women voters they post these statistics:

http://www.lwvmn.org/page.aspx?pid=734

• 18 percent of elderly citizens do not have a government-issued photo ID.
• 15 percent of voters earning less than $35,000 a year do not have a photo ID.
• 18 percent of citizens aged 18-24 do not have a government-issued ID with their current address and name.
• 10 percent of voters with disabilities do not have a photo ID.
• 25 percent of African-American citizens of voting age do not have a current, government-issued I

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-laws-mean-some-wont-vote

The Brennan Center posts similar statistics in their report.

http://www.brennancenter.org/publication/voting-law-changes-2012

Of course I'd love it if you can prove your statement, "There are very few people in this country who are here legally and registered to vote that don't have id's"

I'll wait.....

From your first link:

Photo ID will create hurdles for otherwise eligible voters

While many people can easily reach into their wallet and produce a current ID that shows who they are and where they live, that is not true for everyone. At any given time, many eligible voters do not have the types of ID that are called for under photo ID proposals. Who is least likely to have a photo ID?

• 18 percent of elderly citizens do not have a government-issued photo ID.
• 15 percent of voters earning less than $35,000 a year do not have a photo ID.
• 18 percent of citizens aged 18-24 do not have a government-issued ID with their current address and name.
• 10 percent of voters with disabilities do not have a photo ID.
• 25 percent of African-American citizens of voting age do not have a current, government-issued ID

What does that mean? "At any given time". I take that to mean that some times they may have one, and at some times they may not. If you look up the definition of "at any given time", that's also the result that comes up. In other words, they probably have an id in their sock drawer, but don't usually have it on them. Or the photo id they do have is expired and they failed to renew it. That would not equate to the actual number of people who do not possess a photo id.

From your second link:

"I get that all the time: 'What's the big deal? I just got my driver's license renewed, it took like five seconds,' " says Larry Norden, acting director of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University, which opposes these laws. "Frankly, that's why these laws have been so successful, because 89 percent of the population does have photo IDs."

That leaves another 3.2 million Americans who don't possess a government-issued picture ID

According to your link, 89% of the populataion does have a photo id with only 3.2 million Americans who do not. Only 3.2 million, that's not really a lot in the grand scheme of things. Out of those 3.2 million, how many would be eligible to vote, registered to vote, or even care to vote?

There are 227 million people in the US who are eligible to vote. Even if all of those 3.2 million people that you've claimed do not have photo id's, are eligible to vote, that equates to only 1.4% of eligible voters who do not possess photo id's. That's not registered voters, just eligible voters.

Your own numbers proved my point for me. "There are very few people in this country who are here legally and registered to vote that don't have id's."