B1/B2 Visa's US Embassy Manila

[Torete 121]

Good day,

Members from all countries MAY find this link an interesting read in spite of it being directed specifically towards applicants in the Philippines. Perhaps someone will glean something useful from the author. I did.

http://expatlifephilippines.com/3rd-times-the-charm-or-so-they-say

Torete

[Torete 121]

Additionally, you'll see the availability of more pages by selecting "Next Post" at the bottom on the right.

What a cash cow!

[Boiler 45,967]

I wonder what changed after the 1st and 2nd interviews to make his think it was worth while applying again.

If he is paying US Taxes and living in PI he is obviously pretty wealthy.

[Torete 121]

I wonder what changed after the 1st and 2nd interviews to make his think it was worth while applying again.

If he is paying US Taxes and living in PI he is obviously pretty wealthy.

Boiler, I too wondered the same thing as I was unable to find any reference towards anything having changed. Having said that, I found insight in his commentary as well as other's responses worthwhile and definitely interesting.

My wife's three family members were recently denied the B1/B2 visa, so it was particulary relevent to us. I'm hoping their situation will change in the future when they consider reapplying so as to have a better chance at approval. It's confounding to us. No, I wasn't at their interview so I'm forced to take them at their word as to their denial and how their interview went. It was such a dissappointment especially for my wife's elderly mother. The commentary did help me understand better what MAY have a positive impact on their next application/interview.

What are your thoughts as to the income stream regarding applying for the visa? I ran some conservative (updated) numbers/fees and placed it at a yearly gross of $6 million/year.

Torete

PS: Not to sound combative, but one really doesn't have to be wealthy to live in the Philippines as evidenced by the plethora of European and North American people that have relocated.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Torete

[Torete 121]

Additionally, you'll see the availability of more pages by selecting "Next Post" at the bottom on the right.

What a cash cow!

I was wrong, select "Previous Post" to see additional commentary.

[Boiler 45,967]

I know some people who have relocated to much cheaper locations, I do not believe any of them are paying US Taxes (Federal) so he must have significant US based income he can not 'hide'.

People that well off do not usually have issues.

The Consulate has to deal with applications submitted, even when they have no reasonable chance. It would be nicer if there was some quiz to weed out the hopeless cases, or at least not make them go to the Consulate.

Money wise it is a wash, fees pay for services.

[Torete 121]

I'll have to plead ignorance regarding payment of taxes to Uncle Sam while living overseas...I simply have little if any knowledge as I'm still in the US.

"People that well off do not usually have issues." Was this in regards to being granted a B1/B2 visa? I just want to ensure I'm understanding you. Thank you.

Agreed. An application is an application is an application whether their chances are good or not. Yes, it would be great if their was some type of mechanism in place to weed out those hopeless cases but alas as you know, there isn't.

Having read so very many past posts, I'm constantly struck by the number of references being made to "They didn't even look at any of my paperwork or documentation I brought". Once again, basing my response only on what I was told by my wife's family, that was also the case for them. Nothing was looked at. I had access to their online applications for editing/proofreading purposes, and I honestly can't recall anywhere on the form where it asks for proof of land deeds, home ownership, or financiaial considerations or any other proof of substantial ties to the Philippines. Perhaps they have database access to those things even before the interview is conducted. Bottom line is they weren't issued the visa as the officer wasn't convinced they weren't intending immigrants.

For me, I don't think the fees are a wash. $160 per application seems exorbitant to me, but I don't have a full grasp or knowledge of what transpires to process an online application. I guess I was only pointing out that if one ran some basic/conservative numbers, the amount of fees collected is staggering in my mind. When I ran them, it went from a low of $6 million up to $60 million...conservatively. I know it's not germane, I just wasn't aware of sheer amount of money changing hands.

[RhettVoe 282]

the $160 fee covers the entire cost of the process, from paper intake, security checks (electronic), data entry, the interview, security personnel, lights, etc...the fee is derived by parceling the cost of each application so that the US taxpayers pay nary a farthing in taxes for this process. So to try and bully their decisions by signing your letter as a 'tax paying American' will only stifle a yawn. YOU are not paying for the interview process.

As to documents, well...please...tell us...which document(s) by LAW overcome 214b? Well? Answer: NONE. Look through the INA....NO specific documents are listed as a requirement for obtaining a visa....none, nada...and in the PI, documents can be purchased to 'prove' just about anything, not two blocks from the embassy, for less than $200.So why would any CO with more than 10 minutes experience take any document at face value? Furthermore, which document, again according to US law, can compel an applicant to depart the US and not engage in unauthorized employment? None that I know of.

As to the 'unfair interview', only visa denials are categorized as 'unfair.' However, how would you know what is or is not fair? How many applicants have you interviewed in the PI who were seeking tourist visas? Answer: 0. So, your experience level compared to even the newest CO is, well, nonexistent.

The problem is NOT the COs, nor our 'unfair laws.' Blame all those Filipinos who 'forgot' to return as promised, in spite of perhaps having presented some document proving their intent. They are the root cause of any skepticism by the COs.

Now you can complain all you want, but at the end of the day, the COs' decisions are NOT made on US soil, and therefore are NOT subject to review nor reconsideration. Period.

[Torete 121]

That's quite the diatribe, but coming from RhettVoe I'm not at all surprised.

You do realize that the author of the link I posted was not myself right? I fail to see your need to be so vociferous in your responses.

I don't think I expressed my agreement with the poster of that link anywhere, but if I did it was inadvertant. Either way, I don't feel the need to defend myself from you if indeed you are referring to my being the author.

As I stated in my opening remarks, it was meant to invoke an opportunity for others to glean whatever information from that link that might assist them. It has assisted me.

Next.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Torete

[RhettVoe 282]

vociferous? blunt, direct, and to the point. Please point out any flaws in my response. whoever wrote the linked story does not understand the process, and believes (as so many do, without foundation in law) that their 'word' or status as an American taxpayer (or whatever) should trump the laws....but....it does not. As I mentioned, your taxes do not pay for the b2 application process....in fact, visa operations worldwide are funded through the application fees. Thus, an unhappy American citizen cannot try the old 'I pay your salary' argument to try and intimidate a CO into changing their decision.

A person may think our laws unfair...but the COs are not empowered to change them. they must abide by the laws. No mention of any specific documents necessary precludes the need to look at documents....even while the ink is drying upon same after having been bought down the street.

Just about everyone says that their case, or their relative's or 'friend's' case is the bona fide case....only those 'other guys' are the fraudsters......what is wrong with this picture?

[Torete 121]

vociferous? blunt, direct, and to the point. Please point out any flaws in my response. whoever wrote the linked story does not understand the process, and believes (as so many do, without foundation in law) that their 'word' or status as an American taxpayer (or whatever) should trump the laws....but....it does not. As I mentioned, your taxes do not pay for the b2 application process....in fact, visa operations worldwide are funded through the application fees. Thus, an unhappy American citizen cannot try the old 'I pay your salary' argument to try and intimidate a CO into changing their decision.

A person may think our laws unfair...but the COs are not empowered to change them. they must abide by the laws. No mention of any specific documents necessary precludes the need to look at documents....even while the ink is drying upon same after having been bought down the street.

Just about everyone says that their case, or their relative's or 'friend's' case is the bona fide case....only those 'other guys' are the fraudsters......what is wrong with this picture?

Commenting, then ignoring RhettVoe as they are a lost cause.

Let's see, you used the word "You" 4 times in your original post and the word "Your" twice. That seems to imply that I wrote the article contained in the link. Perhaps now you'll understand the difference and agree that I'm not the author. It's amazing that it eluded you.

Finally!!! You decided to read and correctly wrote, "whoever wrote the linked story..."

If you wish to respond to the viewpoints the author of the link proffered, feel free to go to that blog and set them straight by all means.

I will no longer engage you or your ilk. My OP was meant to allow others to read viewpoints that may or may not expand their knowledge and understanding. The fact that there are over 160 views shows that there may be some worth to them.

To other reasonable individuals that are viewing this post, take it for what it's worth.

[RhettVoe 282]

No matter what you wrote, or how you might try to insult me, at the end of the day, what I wrote is accurate...and all the whining/complaining/chest thumping by any unhappy American camper, won't change a thing...something that many of YOU don't like....but...you cannot do anything about it.

COs are the judge, jury and executioner....and they have far more experience, training and knowledge about the visa process than any self appointed 'expert' who claims to know better.

The process is about as transparent as possible...(unlike our current justice system, which allows rich families to buy off judges [DuPont comes to mind] and get soft sentences....)...no one can, by law, influence the CO's decisions....it matters not what the pedigree might be of some American Bf, spouse or 'friend' when their SO has their visa application denied....something that their egos cannot handle.

[Boiler 45,967]

1. I'll have to plead ignorance regarding payment of taxes to Uncle Sam while living overseas...I simply have little if any knowledge as I'm still in the US.

2. "People that well off do not usually have issues." Was this in regards to being granted a B1/B2 visa? I just want to ensure I'm understanding you. Thank you.

3. Agreed. An application is an application is an application whether their chances are good or not. Yes, it would be great if their was some type of mechanism in place to weed out those hopeless cases but alas as you know, there isn't.

4. Having read so very many past posts, I'm constantly struck by the number of references being made to "They didn't even look at any of my paperwork or documentation I brought". Once again, basing my response only on what I was told by my wife's family, that was also the case for them. Nothing was looked at. I had access to their online applications for editing/proofreading purposes, and I honestly can't recall anywhere on the form where it asks for proof of land deeds, home ownership, or financiaial considerations or any other proof of substantial ties to the Philippines. Perhaps they have database access to those things even before the interview is conducted. Bottom line is they weren't issued the visa as the officer wasn't convinced they weren't intending immigrants.

5. For me, I don't think the fees are a wash. $160 per application seems exorbitant to me, but I don't have a full grasp or knowledge of what transpires to process an online application. I guess I was only pointing out that if one ran some basic/conservative numbers, the amount of fees collected is staggering in my mind. When I ran them, it went from a low of $6 million up to $60 million...conservatively. I know it's not germane, I just wasn't aware of sheer amount of money changing hands.

1. You are taxed as a USC on your world wide income but he obviously is not working in the US. He seems to want to stress the point that not only is he a Citizen but also pays taxes, and presumably as he is therefore wealthy deserves better treatment. I have seen this approach quite a few times from USC's.

2. Exactly.

4. Like what, I have property, bank accounts, credit cards etc in the UK but I live in the US. What would I show that would be relevant? If there was something then would they not ask for it as part of the application rather then let you guess?

5. They charge a standard fee which makes sense, logic suggests that some places are cheaper to operate in than others, it does not seem an unreasonable amount, and is of course minuscule compared to the cost of a holiday in the US.

[Torete 121]

Hi Boiler,

Thank you for your articulate and reasonable response. I enjoy having a dialogue with you.

I was unaware that a USC was still taxed even while residing out of country. I've never had occasion to look into that but it obviously will have some bearing on myself and my family when that time comes.

Yes, I can definitely see your point and how some USC's have used the approach you mentioned. I guess it's unfortunate but happens nonetheless.

As an aside to the original intent of my posting the link to invoke reasonable discussion, I (personally) guess your response to #4 is what confounded my family members. What could they provide that would be relevant? As you pointed out in your own situation, you have those things that COULD indicate relevance, but that's another lengthy topic. Of course you're right, it follows that if it had any bearing on making a determination they would ask for it in the application. The USEM website mentions:

Notes:

• In certain cases, additional documents may be requested.
• All documents must be originals. Photocopies will not be accepted, unless specified. The applicant must submit these documents to the interviewing consular officer during the interview. The Nonimmigrant Visa Unit does not accept documents before the interview. Any documents received will not bereturned and will be destroyed. Please note, however, that presentation of the documents will not guarantee visa issuance. Applicants must still qualify under INA Section 214(b).

I think that's what the family was trying to accomplish...having "additional documents" available if requested which by the way they did.

I'll defer as to whether the application fees are reasonable as I feel it's subjective; that doesn't invalidate your position on the matter.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. It's all in the delivery and presentation of your point Boiler and yours is appreciated.

Regards.

PS: I still hope that the link provides some insight to other VJ members.

[Boiler 45,967]

I can think of other B uses where documentation would assist, but none comes to mind for Tourism purposes.

To add it is very unusual for additional documents to be requested when seeking a B for tourism. this is not particular to this Consulate.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Boiler