87% of American women (18-64) claim to have been harassed on the street by men

[LibCampFireClub 635]

I don't mind some strangers complimenting me if he looks like this

Harrassing to men. Reported!

[Operator 1,927]

You're dismissing centuries of gender inequality.

No I was asking your opinion, also I said compliment not "comment on peoples bodies".

I think our definitions of the word compliment might be different.

[*Snowdrop* 604]

This is SUCH a hard conversation to have online because it's hard to convey tone etc. But it's a difficult conversation to have anywhere because of all the variables which come with people's personal feelings and opinions.

What feels like harassment to one woman is not going to be the same to another.

I don't agree that a compliment from a stranger is always unwelcome. But I also think that it's easy to read the basic social signals someone is giving off to make sure that a comment is going to okay rather than an intrusion.

What could make things better for everyone is if the compliment givers make some effort to see how their attention might be received before launching on in there.

For example the following scenario:

I am on my way to a girl's night out in a wine bar. I've spent an hour or so getting ready, had a new hair cut, new shoes. I'm feeling happy, confident, in a fun mood. It probably shows in my walk and face. As I walk down the road I catch the eye of a guy who coming out of a shop. He gives me 'that appreciative look'. We make eye contact and I give him a smile. If as I pass him, he goes further than a simple return smile and gives me a nice (not sleezy or suggestive) compliment on my appearance, I probably would feel a little boost. Certainly no harm to anyone.

or

I am on my way to the same night out and before I see the guy in the shop I have run the gauntlet of a building site where a group of men jeered and yelled sexually explicit things at me. Then I had a car slow down and someone lean out and make an inappropriate comment about various body parts. This comes after a horrible day yesterday when someone felt me up on the tube train at rush hour. By the time I pass the guy at the shop I am feeling wary of strangers on the street, intimidated and on edge. I don't look at the guy as I pass him, I certainly don't make eye contact or smile at him, because I don't want to provoke any more from anyone. If he says anything about my appearance to me as I pass then it becomes just one more unwelcome intrusion into my personal space.

or

I'm on my way home from work, worried about a deadline and also upset because my best friend has just had a miscarriage. Any comment on my appearance however nice the intentions is just not welcome. But I'm also sure in this situation that my expression and demeanor are openly showing I am upset. So a "classy gentleman" would presumably not intrude into my personal space.

The harassment I think women in the survey are talking about it unwanted social contact which feels aggressive or intimidating.

If you can read basic social cues and the woman you want to say something to has made eye contact with you and her expression is welcoming, then a nice compliment is probably not going to be read as harassment (even if it's not particularly wanted or appreciated, it hasn't made her feel intimidated or under attack)

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

You're dismissing centuries of gender inequality. If some random female stranger passing me by commented on my looks I wouldn't mind as much, but I'd still wonder what her deal was. It certainly wouldn't brighten my day or some such tripe. It should be common decency to not comment on people's bodies unless you've actually met them.

& I can't agree with you more.

there was a day when an individual persona was respected as an individual right. but now..it seems there is an attempt to make yours mine and vice versa.

how 'bout we all respect the individual & with that in mind = stop assuming our own POV is one size fits all...? ....duh..?

[sharky-rex 76]

Well, that ruined all the fun. I agree with most of that.

Sorry

You've made it clear what you don't like, but hopefully you understand that not all women think the way you do.

That's true. I haven't exactly counted, but it seems to me that the majority of women who have posted here agree with me. Yes somehow what men think ought to be counts just as much. It seems like the man's desire to compliment a woman is more important than how she actually feels about it, which should be the whole point of giving a compliment.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Ah, see, I don't like it so there must be something wrong with me. Other women agreeing with me on this thread? There must be something wrong with them too! Maybe it's that they're not men.

No. If you really like an item of clothing and she doesn't look like she really doesn't want attention, sure, go ahead. Hat is fine. Dude, nice shoes is fine. But it's about the item of clothing, not the woman. You're complimenting her sense of style, not looks. Nice dress might be dodgy, and here's why: I don't want to feel like a random stranger passing me by is checking out my body. We deal with creeps way more frequently than you might think, and you never know who you're dealing with. So anything that might be a camouflage for nice tits or nice butt, if you really care how the woman will feel, you'd stay clear.

I don't see the amount of support from women here that you claim to have. maybe one or two who agree with you. There are others who have disagreed with you and others who are on the fence.

Based on your sexual preference I believe you are pre-disposed to reject any type of attraction/attention from males anyway. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just don't come on here thinking your opinion represents the majority of heterosexual women, it doesn't.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Teddy B

[mota bhai 2,675]

I bet she spells women with a y!

[LibCampFireClub 635]

That's true. I haven't exactly counted, but it seems to me that the majority of women who have posted here agree with me. Yes somehow what men think ought to be counts just as much. It seems like the man's desire to compliment a woman is more important than how she actually feels about it, which should be the whole point of giving a compliment.

Somehow you reject a man's insight about women, but believe your own perceptions about men to be irrefutable.

[mota bhai 2,675]

Somehow you reject a man's insight about women, but believe your own perceptions about men to be irrefutable.

It's called lesbianical privilege.

[Teddy B 17,252]

This is SUCH a hard conversation to have online because it's hard to convey tone etc. But it's a difficult conversation to have anywhere because of all the variables which come with people's personal feelings and opinions.

What feels like harassment to one woman is not going to be the same to another.

I don't agree that a compliment from a stranger is always unwelcome. But I also think that it's easy to read the basic social signals someone is giving off to make sure that a comment is going to okay rather than an intrusion.

What could make things better for everyone is if the compliment givers make some effort to see how their attention might be received before launching on in there.

For example the following scenario:

I am on my way to a girl's night out in a wine bar. I've spent an hour or so getting ready, had a new hair cut, new shoes. I'm feeling happy, confident, in a fun mood. It probably shows in my walk and face. As I walk down the road I catch the eye of a guy who coming out of a shop. He gives me 'that appreciative look'. We make eye contact and I give him a smile. If as I pass him, he goes further than a simple return smile and gives me a nice (not sleezy or suggestive) compliment on my appearance, I probably would feel a little boost. Certainly no harm to anyone.

or

I am on my way to the same night out and before I see the guy in the shop I have run the gauntlet of a building site where a group of men jeered and yelled sexually explicit things at me. Then I had a car slow down and someone lean out and make an inappropriate comment about various body parts. This comes after a horrible day yesterday when someone felt me up on the tube train at rush hour. By the time I pass the guy at the shop I am feeling wary of strangers on the street, intimidated and on edge. I don't look at the guy as I pass him, I certainly don't make eye contact or smile at him, because I don't want to provoke any more from anyone. If he says anything about my appearance to me as I pass then it becomes just one more unwelcome intrusion into my personal space.

or

I'm on my way home from work, worried about a deadline and also upset because my best friend has just had a miscarriage. Any comment on my appearance however nice the intentions is just not welcome. But I'm also sure in this situation that my expression and demeanor are openly showing I am upset. So a "classy gentleman" would presumably not intrude into my personal space.

The harassment I think women in the survey are talking about it unwanted social contact which feels aggressive or intimidating.

If you can read basic social cues and the woman you want to say something to has made eye contact with you and her expression is welcoming, then a nice compliment is probably not going to be read as harassment (even if it's not particularly wanted or appreciated, it hasn't made her feel intimidated or under attack)

This is spot on! And it's exactly what I have been referring to all along. Respect and class is what makes it or breaks it.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Women don't dress up to be told by strangers that they look nice. They are dressing up for themselves, for their friends, for people they know.

+1 The notion that dressing to look good is an open invitation for unwanted attention from strangers isn't that different from the claim made by some men that rape victims attire contributed to being assaulted.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

This is spot on! And it's exactly what I have been referring to all along. Respect and class is what makes it or breaks it.

Exactly. She explained it the way I saw it in my head.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

I am disgusted. So many the VJ have shouldered up to harass another with a differing view based on sexual identification. Shaking my head at the adolescent behavior.

[*Snowdrop* 604]

This is spot on! And it's exactly what I have been referring to all along. Respect and class is what makes it or breaks it.

Yes, respect is the key.

The problem is that for 87% or women who were surveyed they have experienced at least one occasion of not being respected on the streets by men.

And for those of us who have commented on here we can see that, anecdotally at least, it's a lot more than the odd lone incident. I lived in London for eight years and I probably experienced unwelcome comments which I consider harassment at least once a month, sometimes more.

Every month for eight years.

I'm sure I also experienced some lovely, welcome, flirty moments with nice guys. But I don't really remember them. The other type of incident overwhelms the good comments.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Yes, respect is the key.

The problem is that for 87% or women who were surveyed they have experienced at least one occasion of not being respected on the streets by men.

And for those of us who have commented on here we can see that, anecdotally at least, it's a lot more than the odd lone incident. I lived in London for eight years and I probably experienced unwelcome comments which I consider harassment at least once a month, sometimes more.

Every month for eight years.

I'm sure I also experienced some lovely, welcome, flirty moments with nice guys. But I don't really remember them. The other type of incident overwhelms the good comments.

There's no doubt that real harassment is a problem. I get angry when I see a man act like a complete tool to a woman. A lot of times I say something o the man.

If I were to mistakingly catch you on a bad night and my compliment was ignored, I wouldn't say another word, I would simply understand that it wasn't appreciated and walk away.