This isn't patriotism

[Reynaldo 0]

A link for all the Dems here:

http://www.thefrown.com/frowners/becomerepublican.swf

[keltic 1]

why bother answering your question when you can't even come up with anyone else that comment could be aimed at?

im sure that with almost any other president during wartime, there were ppl who questioned it or felt there was something askew... i wasnt alive for most of them, so cant speak for it... but that doesnt matter... because the question is not about any one particular person... its about a personal belief of yours... one that some others also agree on... i would like to understand it, if i can...

why bother answering? because it would be a courtesy... because it would be a chance for you to explain your beliefs so that another can understand them... thats how ppl learn

[Jenn! 918]

A link for all the Dems here:

http://www.thefrown.com/frowners/becomerepublican.swf

That was great. I especially liked how soccer is democrat and american football is republican.

[Alex+R 0]

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. nixon didn't declare war in vietnam. thanks for playing.

And whoever questioned that war was a Nixon-basher, right?

rey, read post 24 to understand what the original question was.

Now that's what I call arrogance Charles. Here's one of your winks right back at ya:

Leaders since the dawn of time have used war or pretend-war to control their subjects. If you can't think of any other American presidents who have done that, then frankly, dear God, read a book.

And Charles, this is all to prove that Keltic was bush-bashing, correct? Is that really where you want to spend all your time in this discussion?

alex, nixon had nothing to do whatsoever with the original question i posed.

if you know of a president then that meets that above, what's the name?

here is you much deserved bonk

Let's go for a strange one. President McKinley. Did we really declare war on Spain because we were going to liberate the Cubans? Um, we liberated them, but the plan was to then have them to ourselves. Nice rhetoric, not the real reason. Same for the Philippines, which we were going to Christianize. Seven years and a massacre later... hmmm.... And every other president who said we were liberating or "bringing democracy to" someone (Chile, Iran) --even when they already had a democratically elected gov't--and got America behind him when really "liberation" was miles from the agenda. Did you take American history in high school, Charles?

ETA: And F*** Off with the bonk!!

Edited January 9, 2007 by Alex+R

[Caladan 19]

Off the top of my head, Charles, nearly every president involved in a 'police action' since WWII.

that was not the question.

this was: "...as long as the president can manipulate the ppl and congress to declare war..."

how many presidents have had that comment leveled at them?

LIke I said, nearly all of them since WWII. Read up on it. Politics has never been about kissing the incumbent's ###.

But you're absolutely correct that the executive powers have expanded more under Bush 43 than any other president, and that earlier comment should be construed as about Bush, most likely. That only counts as 'bashing', though, if you think that any critcism of Bush shouldn't happen, which is sort of what this topic is about.

[Ban Hammer 13,336]

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. nixon didn't declare war in vietnam. thanks for playing.

And whoever questioned that war was a Nixon-basher, right?

rey, read post 24 to understand what the original question was.

Now that's what I call arrogance Charles. Here's one of your winks right back at ya:

Leaders since the dawn of time have used war or pretend-war to control their subjects. If you can't think of any other American presidents who have done that, then frankly, dear God, read a book.

And Charles, this is all to prove that Keltic was bush-bashing, correct? Is that really where you want to spend all your time in this discussion?

alex, nixon had nothing to do whatsoever with the original question i posed.

if you know of a president then that meets that above, what's the name?

here is you much deserved bonk

Let's go for a strange one. President McKinley. Did we really declare war on Spain because we were going to liberate the Cubans? Um, we liberated them, but the plan was to then have them to ourselves. Nice rhetoric, not the real reason. Same for the Philippines, which we were going to Christianize. Seven years and a massacre later... hmmm.... And every other president who said we were liberating or "bringing democracy to" someone (Chile, Iran) --even when they already had a democratically elected gov't--and got America behind him when really "liberation" was miles from the agenda. Did you take American history in high school, Charles?

ETA: And F*** Off with the bonk!!

ah so there was charges of him manipulating intelligence and congress. that is interesting!

now for the missouri state motto: show me

hehehehehe about the

Off the top of my head, Charles, nearly every president involved in a 'police action' since WWII.

that was not the question.

this was: "...as long as the president can manipulate the ppl and congress to declare war..."

how many presidents have had that comment leveled at them?

LIke I said, nearly all of them since WWII. Read up on it. Politics has never been about kissing the incumbent's ###.

But you're absolutely correct that the executive powers have expanded more under Bush 43 than any other president, and that earlier comment should be construed as about Bush, most likely. That only counts as 'bashing', though, if you think that any critcism of Bush shouldn't happen, which is sort of what this topic is about.

a police action and a declared war are two different things.

[Caladan 19]

This is a strange battle cry: "NO IT IS ONLY MY PRESIDENT WHO LIES TO CONGRESS YOU CAN'T NAME ANOTHER ONE!!!!!"

[Reynaldo 0]

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. nixon didn't declare war in vietnam. thanks for playing.

And whoever questioned that war was a Nixon-basher, right?

rey, read post 24 to understand what the original question was.

Now that's what I call arrogance Charles. Here's one of your winks right back at ya:

Leaders since the dawn of time have used war or pretend-war to control their subjects. If you can't think of any other American presidents who have done that, then frankly, dear God, read a book.

And Charles, this is all to prove that Keltic was bush-bashing, correct? Is that really where you want to spend all your time in this discussion?

alex, nixon had nothing to do whatsoever with the original question i posed.

if you know of a president then that meets that above, what's the name?

here is you much deserved bonk

Let's go for a strange one. President McKinley. Did we really declare war on Spain because we were going to liberate the Cubans? Um, we liberated them, but the plan was to then have them to ourselves. Nice rhetoric, not the real reason. Same for the Philippines, which we were going to Christianize. Seven years and a massacre later... hmmm.... And every other president who said we were liberating or "bringing democracy to" someone (Chile, Iran) --even when they already had a democratically elected gov't--and got America behind him when really "liberation" was miles from the agenda. Did you take American history in high school, Charles?

ETA: And F*** Off with the bonk!!

Just adding some info down here. The CIA, under JFK administration, planned and set up all the military dictatorships in Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay and Chile on the middle of the 20th century...

[Alex+R 0]

This is a strange battle cry: "NO IT IS ONLY MY PRESIDENT WHO LIES TO CONGRESS YOU CAN'T NAME ANOTHER ONE!!!!!"

[Ban Hammer 13,336]

This is a strange battle cry: "NO IT IS ONLY MY PRESIDENT WHO LIES TO CONGRESS YOU CAN'T NAME ANOTHER ONE!!!!!"

here is your next thought to ponder. is the war in iraq a declared war by congress?

Just adding some info down here. The CIA, under JFK administration, planned and set up all the military dictatorships in Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay and Chile on the middle of the 20th century...

and was that a declared war?

[Reynaldo 0]

This is a strange battle cry: "NO IT IS ONLY MY PRESIDENT WHO LIES TO CONGRESS YOU CAN'T NAME ANOTHER ONE!!!!!"

here is your next thought to ponder. is the war in iraq a declared war by congress?

Oh Charles, why do we keep arguing with you?

Ok, your president is the BEST president when it comes to middle eastern affairs, all right?

Ok, he didn't lie to congress...

[Alex+R 0]

This is a strange battle cry: "NO IT IS ONLY MY PRESIDENT WHO LIES TO CONGRESS YOU CAN'T NAME ANOTHER ONE!!!!!"

here is your next thought to ponder. is the war in iraq a declared war by congress?

Um, no. It's an extended military engagement authorized by congress, to be exact.

[Reynaldo 0]

Just adding some info down here. The CIA, under JFK administration, planned and set up all the military dictatorships in Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay and Chile on the middle of the 20th century...

and was that a declared war?

Why don't you go to all the widows of the people that died in that "non-war" and ask them that?

[Alex+R 0]

Just adding some info down here. The CIA, under JFK administration, planned and set up all the military dictatorships in Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay and Chile on the middle of the 20th century...

and was that a declared war?

Why don't you go to all the widows of the people that died in that "non-war" and ask them that?

Charles the last time we formally declared war was WWII. I don't think this is the argument you want to be using.

[Heracles 417]

and just to clarify... i am a USC, therefore i would fall into that category... altho i dont think of myself as arrogant (i do try to listen to others and not be totally closeminded)... i do know that before i started making some friends outside of this country, i was very ignorant of anything outside of american borders... thankfully, i have made many friends in many different countries... and even met the love of my life in another country... it has opened my eyes and i have learned a lot... i think it would be nice for others who have never traveled or even talked to anyone from another country to try to see what life is like elsewhere

Funny my wife said the same thing. She was saying how all her life she learned America this America that yet once she came for a visit to Melbourne Australia, it totally opened up her mind. The US has a lot to learn from other nations and should open up to new ideas.