This isn't patriotism

[Ban Hammer 13,336]

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. nixon didn't declare war in vietnam. thanks for playing.

And whoever questioned that war was a Nixon-basher, right?

rey, read post 24 to understand what the original question was.

[keltic 1]

i also think that a lot of americans are very arrogant and possibly ignorant of many things outside their own little bubble...

and it's not very arrogant of you to say that?

not arrogant... just my opinion... i did say "i think.."

you dont have to agree... nor do i expect you to

and just to clarify... i am a USC, therefore i would fall into that category... altho i dont think of myself as arrogant (i do try to listen to others and not be totally closeminded)... i do know that before i started making some friends outside of this country, i was very ignorant of anything outside of american borders... thankfully, i have made many friends in many different countries... and even met the love of my life in another country... it has opened my eyes and i have learned a lot... i think it would be nice for others who have never traveled or even talked to anyone from another country to try to see what life is like elsewhere

[Heracles 417]

i agree... my vote is only one vote, but i use it! and i am not a member of the democrats or the republicans or the libertarians or any other group... i just listen to what the candidates say and check their records and such... unfortunately, usually the only folks that can afford to run have accepted money from someone who can at least put some pressure on them if not flat out pull their strings

This is what people need to protest about not the other ####### like no war, no war.. Stand up for your country.

Why is it no body protests about the Mexicans breaking into the country every day and stealing American jobs??

[Reynaldo 0]

yes, but we're referring to american presidents.

i'm still waiting for the goon squad to answer up.

what amazes me is how someone can make a comment like that and then proclaim it's not aimed at bush.

Well, Charles, my comment was actually putting GWB into the "dictators from the USSR" group

Do you really think that is ok?

[peezey 0]

I think questioning your government and demanding accountability = patriotism/Americanism, and the Founding Fathers would agree. It's very dangerous when patriotism is defined as getting in line with a president, an idea, or a party.

So how does anything get done then. Imagine someone at your work constantly criticized everything you did and always tried to stop you from achieving anything because they disagreed with you..

Most other developed nations talk to each other and learn from each other. Whereas many here have the attitude of, well this is the US and bla bla bla.. Where has that attitude gotten this country so far, nowhere. And is further pushing it into chaos and poverty.. Like the fact that the US has the highest rate of child poverty in the developed world, excluding Mexico.

This stubbornness is a growing problem and is fueled by arrogance and ignorance from certain states. I would like to see the country get to where it was between the 40's to 80's rather than where it is heading now.

Could you possibly explain "bla bla bla"?

Where has it gotten us so far? Let's see, compared to most other nations on the planet, we are in our infancy, are you saying questioning our government and making changes therein HAS GOTTEN US NOWHERE? Us, the freakin' leader of the world? How about thinking beyond your little tiny circle of reality.

Again, don't talk to me about certain states, my state contributes the most to the federal budget while 5 million children here do not have health coverage.

[keltic 1]

what amazes me is how someone can make a comment like that and then proclaim it's not aimed at bush.

because not everything in life is centered around bush... at least not george w. bush...

what amazes me is why you really dont want to/cant answer the question that i asked

[Ban Hammer 13,336]

i also think that a lot of americans are very arrogant and possibly ignorant of many things outside their own little bubble...

and it's not very arrogant of you to say that?

not arrogant... just my opinion... i did say "i think.."

you dont have to agree... nor do i expect you to

and just to clarify... i am a USC, therefore i would fall into that category... altho i dont think of myself as arrogant (i do try to listen to others and not be totally closeminded)... i do know that before i started making some friends outside of this country, i was very ignorant of anything outside of american borders... thankfully, i have made many friends in many different countries... and even met the love of my life in another country... it has opened my eyes and i have learned a lot... i think it would be nice for others who have never traveled or even talked to anyone from another country to try to see what life is like elsewhere

on that we can agree. but i don't believe you should be broadbrushing the american populace due to your own experiences.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Republicans/conservatives have had no problem criticizing a president over Somalia, Bosnia or Kosovo so I'm not sure why things are different now.

THe US never formally declared war in Iraq -- we haven't "declared war" since WW2

[Ban Hammer 13,336]

what amazes me is how someone can make a comment like that and then proclaim it's not aimed at bush.

because not everything in life is centered around bush... at least not george w. bush...

what amazes me is why you really dont want to/cant answer the question that i asked

why bother answering your question when you can't even come up with anyone else that comment could be aimed at?

yes, but we're referring to american presidents.

i'm still waiting for the goon squad to answer up.

what amazes me is how someone can make a comment like that and then proclaim it's not aimed at bush.

Well, Charles, my comment was actually putting GWB into the "dictators from the USSR" group

Do you really think that is ok?

let's not get into dictators, k, rey?

[peezey 0]

i agree... my vote is only one vote, but i use it! and i am not a member of the democrats or the republicans or the libertarians or any other group... i just listen to what the candidates say and check their records and such... unfortunately, usually the only folks that can afford to run have accepted money from someone who can at least put some pressure on them if not flat out pull their strings

This is what people need to protest about not the other ####### like no war, no war.. Stand up for your country.

Why is it no body protests about the Mexicans breaking into the country every day and stealing American jobs??

"no one"?? There are protests. And, who's stopping them? Clearly if there aren't protests, there isn't enough of a desire to be politically active in that way. Certainly no one is preventing anyone from anything. If you feel so strongly, you should get something together.

The reason this "war" is such a big deal is because those little taxes you refer to are gone, wasted, used up, along with hundreds of billions more borrowed, so that the problems that should be addressed inside this country are outta luck. You see no reason to be pissed all this money is wasted and the issued you're concerned about are not being addressed?

[keltic 1]

i agree... my vote is only one vote, but i use it! and i am not a member of the democrats or the republicans or the libertarians or any other group... i just listen to what the candidates say and check their records and such... unfortunately, usually the only folks that can afford to run have accepted money from someone who can at least put some pressure on them if not flat out pull their strings

This is what people need to protest about not the other ####### like no war, no war.. Stand up for your country.

Why is it no body protests about the Mexicans breaking into the country every day and stealing American jobs??

again, i agree totally... and i think standing up for your country is being patriotic... not standing up for any one person within it

and personally, i DO protest illegal immigrants (not just mexican, but ANY illegal immigrants)... its one of the things that someone who read my posts on the issue would assume i must be a republican, lol... since i have gone thru the visa process for my husband, many ppl ask me about it and about my thoughts on illegals... so, i take the opportunity to try to educate other ppl who may not know many of the details about it too...

[Alex+R 0]

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. nixon didn't declare war in vietnam. thanks for playing.

And whoever questioned that war was a Nixon-basher, right?

rey, read post 24 to understand what the original question was.

Now that's what I call arrogance Charles. Here's one of your winks right back at ya:

Leaders since the dawn of time have used war or pretend-war to control their subjects. If you can't think of any other American presidents who have done that, then frankly, dear God, read a book.

And Charles, this is all to prove that Keltic was bush-bashing, correct? Is that really where you want to spend all your time in this discussion?

[keltic 1]

i also think that a lot of americans are very arrogant and possibly ignorant of many things outside their own little bubble...

and it's not very arrogant of you to say that?

not arrogant... just my opinion... i did say "i think.."

you dont have to agree... nor do i expect you to

and just to clarify... i am a USC, therefore i would fall into that category... altho i dont think of myself as arrogant (i do try to listen to others and not be totally closeminded)... i do know that before i started making some friends outside of this country, i was very ignorant of anything outside of american borders... thankfully, i have made many friends in many different countries... and even met the love of my life in another country... it has opened my eyes and i have learned a lot... i think it would be nice for others who have never traveled or even talked to anyone from another country to try to see what life is like elsewhere

on that we can agree. but i don't believe you should be broadbrushing the american populace due to your own experiences.

which is why i said that "i think MOST" instead of saying that "i know ALL" are

and what more can i speak on other than what i have experienced? if i were to speak for someone elses experiences as if they were mine or complete fact or just out of my a$$, then i would be truly arrogant

[Ban Hammer 13,336]

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. nixon didn't declare war in vietnam. thanks for playing.

And whoever questioned that war was a Nixon-basher, right?

rey, read post 24 to understand what the original question was.

Now that's what I call arrogance Charles. Here's one of your winks right back at ya:

Leaders since the dawn of time have used war or pretend-war to control their subjects. If you can't think of any other American presidents who have done that, then frankly, dear God, read a book.

And Charles, this is all to prove that Keltic was bush-bashing, correct? Is that really where you want to spend all your time in this discussion?

alex, nixon had nothing to do whatsoever with the original question i posed.

if you know of a president then that meets that above, what's the name?

here is you much deserved bonk

[Reynaldo 0]

what amazes me is how someone can make a comment like that and then proclaim it's not aimed at bush.

because not everything in life is centered around bush... at least not george w. bush...

what amazes me is why you really dont want to/cant answer the question that i asked

why bother answering your question when you can't even come up with anyone else that comment could be aimed at?

Why is that so important?

If the comments are really aimed at bush, will it change the fact that he is a stupid liar?

No, it won't.

I won't swallow this "War Is Peace" ####### the GOP is trying to push on the American people....