Owner sprayed “Go back to China” at her own coffee shop

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I don't see anti-white racism here, but then again I can't watch the video (like a good lib, I go on VJ at work). Was there a direct (erroneous) accusation that a white person did this? Or are we inserting "white" into the lacuna here? Are only white people supposed to dislike Asian people?

Where is the advantage for minorities -- that their accusations, both true and false, are taken more seriously when they involve racial crimes? I don't for one moment deny that there are anti-white crimes that exist, but this isn't one. This is an opportunist who played on anti-Asian sentiment which is not confined to white people alone.

But seriously, if you cannot see that white people (in general) have a privileged position in American society, and that they systematically reap the benefits of that privilege whether they actively seek it or not, then really, I'm not even going to try. As someone who is both white and Hispanic, I understand how to work both to my advantage. I play the white card far, far more frequently. The Hispanic one is, frankly, not worth nearly as much in middle class America.

I keep hearing this, like being black gets me a free ride in life. I really wish my free shyt would hurry up and get here.

[Darnell 8,479]

These faux hate crimes (that never happened) seem to have no rhyme or reason…. or do they?

Note to lady: Next time turn the CCTV off "before" you bring in the gas can.

Posit (Mine):

1. she had financial troubles and asked her Chinese buddies what to do then

2. Her Chinese Buddies suggested she torch her place and get the insurance monies and

3. It all went horribly wrong on her.

So, it was a group of her buddies helping her with advice on how to be 'racially motivated', or appear so to be.

Massive Fail, those group of Chinese Buddies.

Still, it's good to see the attempt, nice to know the congregation method of problem resolution (common in China) doesn't work so well here in the USA.

[Operator 1,927]

I think she was trying to pin it on a bunch of out of work factory rats who's former employer moved his factory to Shenzhen.

So all you race war mongers can just pipe down now.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Posit (Mine):

1. she had financial troubles and asked her Chinese buddies what to do then

2. Her Chinese Buddies suggested she torch her place and get the insurance monies and

3. It all went horribly wrong on her.

So, it was a group of her buddies helping her with advice on how to be 'racially motivated', or appear so to be.

Massive Fail, those group of Chinese Buddies.

Still, it's good to see the attempt, nice to know the congregation method of problem resolution (common in China) doesn't work so well here in the USA.

I tend to agree with this (though I think with a last name like Na, she's probably Vietnamese?). The fact that it was even plausible shows something about how anti-Asian sentiment is still very much alive in the US.

[SMR 368]

And your thought would be wrong. Racist and racist are two completely different entities. I'll break it down for you:

rac·ist

noun

noun: racist; plural noun: racists

1.

a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

Now with this I can agree with you. Anyone can be a racist. It knows no boundaries. Now, let's take a look at racism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

Racism is actions, practices or beliefs, or social or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities. It may also hold that members of different races should be treated differently.

This affects people as a whole. It's the reason why when folks use reverse discrimination, it's usually some minority using a slur against a white person. Which is racist, not racism.

In order for it to be racism, you(white people) have to be kept out of something that's exclusive to me(black people). If your livelihood was dependent on a job, and you're weren't hired because of the color of your skin, that's racism. If you were denied service at a restaurant ran by a minority group, that's racism. This would mean the system is against you and for us.

If you want, please share stories where white people are disenfranchised. And I'll gladly show my outrage because injustice is injustice. The only case I can think of would be the CBC, and I've made my point on that loud and clear.

I'm trying but honestly struggling to see your point with racism vs. racist. Civilization is not a uniform entity but rather a sum of parts. If a racist exists, then he or she injects some racism into civilization. Obviously racism could be more or less powerful or widespread and that's an important consideration. And certainly racism could range from a minor inconvenience to a systemic bias that is debilitating to its targets. But I see that as a continuum rather than some sort of binary distinction.

On the subject of white disenfranchisement, see affirmative action.

I don't see anti-white racism here, but then again I can't watch the video (like a good lib, I go on VJ at work). Was there a direct (erroneous) accusation that a white person did this? Or are we inserting "white" into the lacuna here? Are only white people supposed to dislike Asian people?

Where is the advantage for minorities -- that their accusations, both true and false, are taken more seriously when they involve racial crimes? I don't for one moment deny that there are anti-white crimes that exist, but this isn't one. This is an opportunist who played on anti-Asian sentiment which is not confined to white people alone.

But seriously, if you cannot see that white people (in general) have a privileged position in American society, and that they systematically reap the benefits of that privilege whether they actively seek it or not, then really, I'm not even going to try. As someone who is both white and Hispanic, I understand how to work both to my advantage. I play the white card far, far more frequently. The Hispanic one is, frankly, not worth nearly as much in middle class America.

Mota Bhai brought up white people by suggesting that white people aren't allowed to talk about racism. I certainly didn't insert white into the story.

As far as the story being a crime against non-Chinese, it only failed to reach that level because the police realized the claim was false before they managed to find any non-Chinese to blame it on. Obviously that's a tribute to the police. But had the case not been resolved as it was, it very well could have lead to false accusations against someone. Best case it would have remained as evidence of some non-existent racism which itself would have fueled racism (potentially reciprocally).

I'm white and I never played the white card so I can't comment on it's power. Obviously I can't prove that no one has ever behaved better towards me because I am white. But I can't think of one instance where it came up or was obvious to me.

Your comment that you aren't going to try is really a rather cheap attempt to prove me wrong without ever proving anything because obviously it's obvious. Of course it's your right not to try. But don't expect me to believe you because you felt it beneath you to explain why you're right.

I keep hearing this, like being black gets me a free ride in life. I really wish my free shyt would hurry up and get here.

Sort of like people keep telling me that being a straight white male is easy mode in life.

[SMR 368]

I tend to agree with this (though I think with a last name like Na, she's probably Vietnamese?). The fact that it was even plausible shows something about how anti-Asian sentiment is still very much alive in the US.

People tend to think something is plausible when it already happened. When a shop has been burned down and anti-Chinese grafitti is painted nearby, the logical explanation is anti-Chinese/anti-Asian sentiment. All this proves is that the first conclusion that the cops came to wasn't that Jennifer Na burned her own building and made up some racists to blame it on.

Honestly, your line of reasoning here is that if someone fakes a hate crime and the cops don't instantly call BS then there must be racism. Imagine if the cops did instantly call BS. Wouldn't you also claim that proved racism?

Edited April 1, 2014 by SMR

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I'm trying but honestly struggling to see your point with racism vs. racist. Civilization is not a uniform entity but rather a sum of parts. If a racist exists, then he or she injects some racism into civilization. Obviously racism could be more or less powerful or widespread and that's an important consideration. And certainly racism could range from a minor inconvenience to a systemic bias that is debilitating to its targets. But I see that as a continuum rather than some sort of binary distinction.

On the subject of white disenfranchisement, see affirmative action.

Mota Bhai brought up white people by suggesting that white people aren't allowed to talk about racism. I certainly didn't insert white into the story.

As far as the story being a crime against non-Chinese, it only failed to reach that level because the police realized the claim was false before they managed to find any non-Chinese to blame it on. Obviously that's a tribute to the police. But had the case not been resolved as it was, it very well could have lead to false accusations against someone. Best case it would have remained as evidence of some non-existent racism which itself would have fueled racism (potentially reciprocally).

I'm white and I never played the white card so I can't comment on it's power. Obviously I can't prove that no one has ever behaved better towards me because I am white. But I can't think of one instance where it came up or was obvious to me.

Your comment that you aren't going to try is really a rather cheap attempt to prove me wrong without ever proving anything because obviously it's obvious. Of course it's your right not to try. But don't expect me to believe you because you felt it beneath you to explain why you're right.

Sort of like people keep telling me that being a straight white male is easy mode in life.

We've looked at Affirmative Action, guess who benefits more from it? http://ideas.time.com/2013/06/17/affirmative-action-has-helped-white-women-more-than-anyone/

Here's something else to look at: http://www.understandingprejudice.org/readroom/articles/affirm.htm

Myth 5: A large percentage of White workers will lose out if affirmative action is continued.

Government statistics do not support this myth. According to the U.S. Commerce Department, there are 2.6 million unemployed Black civilians and 114 million employed White civilians (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 2011). Thus, even if every unemployed Black worker in the United States were to displace a White worker, only 2% of Whites would be affected. Furthermore, affirmative action pertains only to job-qualified applicants, so the actual percentage of affected Whites would be even smaller. The main sources of job loss among White workers have to do with factory relocations and labor contracting outside the United States, computerization and automation, and corporate downsizing (Ivins, 1995).

Now, for your white card comment. Here's an example of it's power that you don't see. When someone meets you for the first time, what's their reaction? Do they accuse you of being a thief? A thug? Worried you might cause them harm? I'd assume not. You're a blank slate. Your character is whatever your actions and words deem it to be on the first impression. Me, on the other hand. Those questions I asked earlier? I've had those throw at me before I spoke one word or even made a movement. I start with a negative balance right off the bat. And to be clear, I dress like a professional. I speak using proper english. I'm serving my country. And I have to start as a thug and work my way up. That's part of the privilege we're talking about.

[Peikko 1,575]

We've looked at Affirmative Action, guess who benefits more from it? http://ideas.time.com/2013/06/17/affirmative-action-has-helped-white-women-more-than-anyone/

Here's something else to look at: http://www.understandingprejudice.org/readroom/articles/affirm.htm

Myth 5: A large percentage of White workers will lose out if affirmative action is continued.

Government statistics do not support this myth. According to the U.S. Commerce Department, there are 2.6 million unemployed Black civilians and 114 million employed White civilians (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 2011). Thus, even if every unemployed Black worker in the United States were to displace a White worker, only 2% of Whites would be affected. Furthermore, affirmative action pertains only to job-qualified applicants, so the actual percentage of affected Whites would be even smaller. The main sources of job loss among White workers have to do with factory relocations and labor contracting outside the United States, computerization and automation, and corporate downsizing (Ivins, 1995).

Now, for your white card comment. Here's an example of it's power that you don't see. When someone meets you for the first time, what's their reaction? Do they accuse you of being a thief? A thug? Worried you might cause them harm? I'd assume not. You're a blank slate. Your character is whatever your actions and words deem it to be on the first impression. Me, on the other hand. Those questions I asked earlier? I've had those throw at me before I spoke one word or even made a movement. I start with a negative balance right off the bat. And to be clear, I dress like a professional. I speak using proper english. I'm serving my country. And I have to start as a thug and work my way up. That's part of the privilege we're talking about.

I'd give up. If the poster lacks the imagination to even attempt to understand what life is like for someone who is not like themselves then all this is going to prove to him is that blacks are paranoid.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Honestly, your line of reasoning here is that if someone fakes a hate crime and the cops don't instantly call BS then there must be racism. Imagine if the cops did instantly call BS. Wouldn't you also claim that proved racism?

I'm sorry you don't understand me. I never said anything of the sort. I think you're projecting a little.

Edit to add: the act of being white in middle class America and reaping all the benefits (and there are many) that accrue thereto is playing the white card. I understand that it can be upsetting to realise that privilege does skew things in one's favour.

Edited April 1, 2014 by the maven

[Janelle2002 3,865]

We've looked at Affirmative Action, guess who benefits more from it? http://ideas.time.com/2013/06/17/affirmative-action-has-helped-white-women-more-than-anyone/

Here's something else to look at: http://www.understandingprejudice.org/readroom/articles/affirm.htm

Myth 5: A large percentage of White workers will lose out if affirmative action is continued.

Government statistics do not support this myth. According to the U.S. Commerce Department, there are 2.6 million unemployed Black civilians and 114 million employed White civilians (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 2011). Thus, even if every unemployed Black worker in the United States were to displace a White worker, only 2% of Whites would be affected. Furthermore, affirmative action pertains only to job-qualified applicants, so the actual percentage of affected Whites would be even smaller. The main sources of job loss among White workers have to do with factory relocations and labor contracting outside the United States, computerization and automation, and corporate downsizing (Ivins, 1995).

Now, for your white card comment. Here's an example of it's power that you don't see. When someone meets you for the first time, what's their reaction? Do they accuse you of being a thief? A thug? Worried you might cause them harm? I'd assume not. You're a blank slate. Your character is whatever your actions and words deem it to be on the first impression. Me, on the other hand. Those questions I asked earlier? I've had those throw at me before I spoke one word or even made a movement. I start with a negative balance right off the bat. And to be clear, I dress like a professional. I speak using proper english. I'm serving my country. And I have to start as a thug and work my way up. That's part of the privilege we're talking about.

Very good points.

[SMR 368]

We've looked at Affirmative Action, guess who benefits more from it? http://ideas.time.com/2013/06/17/affirmative-action-has-helped-white-women-more-than-anyone/

Here's something else to look at: http://www.understandingprejudice.org/readroom/articles/affirm.htm

Myth 5: A large percentage of White workers will lose out if affirmative action is continued.

Government statistics do not support this myth. According to the U.S. Commerce Department, there are 2.6 million unemployed Black civilians and 114 million employed White civilians (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 2011). Thus, even if every unemployed Black worker in the United States were to displace a White worker, only 2% of Whites would be affected. Furthermore, affirmative action pertains only to job-qualified applicants, so the actual percentage of affected Whites would be even smaller. The main sources of job loss among White workers have to do with factory relocations and labor contracting outside the United States, computerization and automation, and corporate downsizing (Ivins, 1995).

Now, for your white card comment. Here's an example of it's power that you don't see. When someone meets you for the first time, what's their reaction? Do they accuse you of being a thief? A thug? Worried you might cause them harm? I'd assume not. You're a blank slate. Your character is whatever your actions and words deem it to be on the first impression. Me, on the other hand. Those questions I asked earlier? I've had those throw at me before I spoke one word or even made a movement. I start with a negative balance right off the bat. And to be clear, I dress like a professional. I speak using proper english. I'm serving my country. And I have to start as a thug and work my way up. That's part of the privilege we're talking about.

On the subject of AA helping women, I'm not going to argue with you because I absolutely agree and it's obvious to anyone that is paying attention.

As far as the myths presented in the other article, the counterpoints are either faulty, irrelevant, or fighting straw men. In regards to the specific point that you brought up, I see this as a straw man that is irrelevant. If you hire the 2.6 million unemployed blacks instead of an equal number of whites, that's a pretty big number of white people that get affected. The fact that it is only 2% of all the employed white people is sort of irrelevant. It's like suggesting that we shouldn't really care about a black person getting lynched because most black people don't get lynched. Now, I understand that lynching is more serious than losing your job, but that's independent of whether or not only a small percentage of people are affected. Also, I don't really think this is a myth that is widespread and integral to the opposition to AA, so this is a straw man.

As far as a white card, neither of us will ever be able to objectively compare the prejudice that we have faced in our lives. I find it disrespectful when Maven assumes that my experience must be invalid if it doesn't coincide with her own. I certainly expect there are problems you face as a black man. I experienced anti-white prejudice in college but I'm not going to claim it was similar or comparable to what you experienced because of what I said in the first sentence of this paragraph.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

On the subject of AA helping women, I'm not going to argue with you because I absolutely agree and it's obvious to anyone that is paying attention.

As far as the myths presented in the other article, the counterpoints are either faulty, irrelevant, or fighting straw men. In regards to the specific point that you brought up, I see this as a straw man that is irrelevant. If you hire the 2.6 million unemployed blacks instead of an equal number of whites, that's a pretty big number of white people that get affected. The fact that it is only 2% of all the employed white people is sort of irrelevant. It's like suggesting that we shouldn't really care about a black person getting lynched because most black people don't get lynched. Now, I understand that lynching is more serious than losing your job, but that's independent of whether or not only a small percentage of people are affected. Also, I don't really think this is a myth that is widespread and integral to the opposition to AA, so this is a straw man.

As far as a white card, neither of us will ever be able to objectively compare the prejudice that we have faced in our lives. I find it disrespectful when Maven assumes that my experience must be invalid if it doesn't coincide with her own. I certainly expect there are problems you face as a black man. I experienced anti-white prejudice in college but I'm not going to claim it was similar or comparable to what you experienced because of what I said in the first sentence of this paragraph.

It's not a straw man when you look at in the proper perspective. Here is your first statement: On the subject of white disenfranchisement, see affirmative action. The case made was IF you took all the jobs from white people and gave them to black people it would be 2%. This country is 76% white. There's no way every minority could take jobs from white people. White displacement on that scale is what scares you? Don't worry, your position is still safe. The other parts of the article make good points, if you want to argue them, that's cool.

I'll tell you what, you said you've experienced anti-white behavior in college, share your experience here. I won't use mine to make yours look less traumatic. I'm just curious as to what you've been through.

[SMR 368]

I'd give up. If the poster lacks the imagination to even attempt to understand what life is like for someone who is not like themselves then all this is going to prove to him is that blacks are paranoid.

Imagination is the key word here. You're imagining what my world is like.

Trying to imagine what your world (or Marvin's world) is like is not necessarily going to get me any closer to an understanding of reality. Marvin has given personal experience, which I respect, but that may or may not be a good representation of what is taking place on a large scale. You've offered no evidence of racial bias or evidence of how my whiteness has helped me.

I'm sorry you don't understand me. I never said anything of the sort. I think you're projecting a little.

Edit to add: the act of being white in middle class America and reaping all the benefits (and there are many) that accrue thereto is playing the white card. I understand that it can be upsetting to realise that privilege does skew things in one's favour.

I'm not projecting. You're correct that I have assume how you would respond if instead of taking the arsonist seriously the police had assumed that she was lying. How, do you think, would the police have responded to the arsonist's hate crime claims if anti-Asian sentiment did not exist in the US?

As far as the benefits of being white in middle class America, I can't prove a negative. It's not that I rule out bias in my favor so much as that I haven't seen it myself and no one here has offered any concrete proof that it exists. You've just decided to assume that I'm wrong. I disagree.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I remember one of the earliest exposures I had with racial bigotry was with my 4th grade teacher in a rural town in Arizona. She would bring up a former student, Johnny, who happened to be black, and comment how he couldn't even spell his own name correctly. She would bring it up several times as an example of students who weren't that bright. I didn't understand at the time why she kept making an example out of him. No telling how many students heard that story over the years.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Imagination is the key word here. You're imagining what my world is like.

Trying to imagine what your world (or Marvin's world) is like is not necessarily going to get me any closer to an understanding of reality. Marvin has given personal experience, which I respect, but that may or may not be a good representation of what is taking place on a large scale. You've offered no evidence of racial bias or evidence of how my whiteness has helped me.

I'm not projecting. You're correct that I have assume how you would respond if instead of taking the arsonist seriously the police had assumed that she was lying. How, do you think, would the police have responded to the arsonist's hate crime claims if anti-Asian sentiment did not exist in the US?

As far as the benefits of being white in middle class America, I can't prove a negative. It's not that I rule out bias in my favor so much as that I haven't seen it myself and no one here has offered any concrete proof that it exists. You've just decided to assume that I'm wrong. I disagree.

If you want proof of racial bias, let me get off work. There's tons of links proving this.