Kobe Bryant Slammed For Refusing to Back Trayvon Martin

[Karee 4,191]

The point about this conversation was not whether he was guilty in the eyes of the law, it was whether it is fair or reasonable to say that there were a large pool of people who were shocked and horrified by the situation simply based on the fact that the young man that died was black. Once again this is entirely unproven. There are many, many people who simply refute that there was a moral justification for the shooting. I do not believe there is. We do not want our policemen to gun people down merely because they suspect them of being involved in a non violent crime yet we allow through very suspect laws civilians to kill each other on a daily basis and this young man died simply because an untrained nobody decided that the person he followed must be guilty of a crime. Two things about this are wrong, one that people are very quick to pull a weapon to solve a problem that should never, ever result in the death of anyone and two there is a moral bankruptcy in the justification of stand your ground and other laws that exclude manslaughter as a criminal solution to these types of deaths. More of the same and the value of human life will continue to plummet. We have already seen how some people wrote the life of this young man off as simply the death of a thug, unimportant, a good thing. That's outrageous.

Don't forget about the moral bankruptcy involved when someone thinks it's ok to jump on someone and start pounding on their face because they're being followed.

[Peikko 1,575]

Don't forget about the moral bankruptcy involved when someone thinks it's ok to jump on someone and start pounding on their face because they're being followed.

Because those are the facts aren't they?

Had there been no gun and no gunman quick to pull the trigger there might be two sides to the story and had TM been the aggressor he would probably be in jail right now. You want to avoid the morality question of killing people without just cause by defecting this back on TM. That's fine, you do that.

[Karee 4,191]

That's fine, you do that.

I just did. Want to see it again?

Don't forget about the moral bankruptcy involved when someone thinks it's ok to jump on someone and start pounding on their face because they're being followed

[Peikko 1,575]

I'll make this simple, I didn't forget that there are two sides to the story. Attacking the morality of civilians choosing to target fellow citizens because they 'think' they 'might' have committed a crime that results in an unnecessary death does not excuse any other moral transgression that might occur.

Edited March 30, 2014 by The Truth™

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Don't forget about the moral bankruptcy involved when someone thinks it's ok to jump on someone and start pounding on their face because they're being followed.

So, I guess the next question is, what was the proper course of action? Because when he was in the car and TM circled his vehicle, he could have addressed it then. Why didn't he roll the window down and tell identify himself? That makes sense. But, I guess he was afraid. So, what does he do? Keeps following this dude. And when he got out of his LOS, he's so scared that leaves his car and starts chasing him on foot. Because that's what you do, you chase someone who doesn't know who you are on foot, at night. There's nothing scary about that at all. And what's even more strange, when TM and GZ came face to face, what did GZ do? I mean, did it occur to him that maybe,after following someone in a car, then on foot, you might actually catch them, what was the next course move? Not Hi, I'm the NWP and I've never seen you before, just checking since the neighborhood has had a rash of break ins. He reached in his pocket, in front of a guy he had spent the last 5 minutes chasing. Not once did he even try to defuse the situation. Not once did he identify himself. TM is dead not because he didn't call 911 or run home, he's dead because an overzealous NW wanted to catch a criminal when there wasn't a crime taking place.

[Karee 4,191]

I'll make this simple, I didn't forget that there are two sides to the story. Attacking the morality of civilians choosing to target fellow citizens because they 'think' they 'might' have committed a crime that results in an unnecessary death does not excuse any other moral transgression that might occur.

I'll try and translate what you said since you lied when you said you were going to make it simple. I was taught by union teachers in the Detroit Public school system, so bear with me.

I think what you are saying is that is that Trayvon was targeted because because GZ "thought" he might be up to something. I'm in agreement with you there. I think where we disagree is what caused TMs death. IMO opinion TMs death was caused by TM jumping on GZ and doing a "ground and pound" on his face. GZ, rightly so, feared for his life and shot the aggressor. I think your point is that if GZ wasn't following TM, that none of this would've occurred. You're right about that. However, if someone is following someone else, and not threatening them in anyway, the law does not allow that the person being followed can turn around and start beating the hell out of the person following you. If I walk out my front door right now and someone starts following me, it would be stupid of me to jump on the guy and start beating the hell out of him. It could get me killed, and rightly so.

Bottom line, the response to being followed should not be an all out assault on the person following you. That is not, and should not be justified. It might get you killed as it did here.

[Karee 4,191]

So, I guess the next question is, what was the proper course of action? Because when he was in the car and TM circled his vehicle, he could have addressed it then. Why didn't he roll the window down and tell identify himself? That makes sense. But, I guess he was afraid. So, what does he do? Keeps following this dude. And when he got out of his LOS, he's so scared that leaves his car and starts chasing him on foot. Because that's what you do, you chase someone who doesn't know who you are on foot, at night. There's nothing scary about that at all. And what's even more strange, when TM and GZ came face to face, what did GZ do? I mean, did it occur to him that maybe,after following someone in a car, then on foot, you might actually catch them, what was the next course move? Not Hi, I'm the NWP and I've never seen you before, just checking since the neighborhood has had a rash of break ins. He reached in his pocket, in front of a guy he had spent the last 5 minutes chasing. Not once did he even try to defuse the situation. Not once did he identify himself. TM is dead not because he didn't call 911 or run home, he's dead because an overzealous NW wanted to catch a criminal when there wasn't a crime taking place.

None of that means anything. Again, you're missing the point. TM jumped on him and started beating the hell out of him. He feared for his life and defended himself. Bottom line, end of story. The response to someone following you should never be to beat the hell out of the person. It could get you killed as it did here.

[lostinblue 1,989]

Get back to me.

Why are you even in this? We all know where you stand, you think Jordan Davis is guilty too.

You'd do it without the assertion, don't lie to yourself.

Head racist here So marvin You are banning me from giving a response ... Just full of hate as usual

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

None of that means anything. Again, you're missing the point. TM jumped on him and started beating the hell out of him. He feared for his life and defended himself. Bottom line, end of story. The response to someone following you should never be to beat the hell out of the person. It could get you killed as it did here.

It means everything.At that point who was more afraid, the kid or the adult? TM wasn't the aggressor, he was leaving the situation. GZ inserted himself into something he clearly wasn't ready to handle nor did he have any reason to do in the first place. Something that wouldn't have taken place had he let 911 do their job. You said he should have called 911 as well, GZ should have stayed in the car, there was absolutely no reason to get out and chase a young man walking home. If he was concerned about the law why didn't he just talk to him?

Is it completely out of bounds to think that he didn't want this guy to find out where he lived? That he felt HIS life was in danger and decided to fight back?

[Karee 4,191]

And Kobe Bryant is right. The only reason this got so much attention was because of the race of the victim (GZ) and the race of the assailant TM.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Karee

[Danno 1,228]

According to some, it's understandable to attack anyone who appears to be a Creepy-azz Cr_cker.

The part I found worth a chuckle was how some went into outrage mode when the doctored tape had GZ using a racial slur….. when the truth came out that the only one to do that was Obamas son…. it was dismissed by all.

Two sets of rules, just to make it fair.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Head racist here So marvin You are banning me from giving a response ... Just full of hate as usual

Yeah, why don't you tell the rest of the folks here why? And your tag line is going to get you banned again.

[Karee 4,191]

According to some, it's understandable to attack anyone who appears to be a Creepy-azz Cr_cker.

The part I found worth a chuckle was how some went into outrage mode when the doctored tape had GZ using a racial slur….. when the truth came out that the only one to do that was Obamas son…. it was dismissed by all.

Two sets of rules, just to make it fair.

The race hustlers are pi$$ed because this one got away from them. They picked the wrong case to try and make their point. Yet they still rode it all the way to the end. A pretty big mis-calculation on their part. Turns out race had nothing to do with it. As far as I recall it didn't even come up in the trial. Yet some wont let it go.

[Peikko 1,575]

I'll try and translate what you said since you lied when you said you were going to make it simple. I was taught by union teachers in the Detroit Public school system, so bear with me.

I think what you are saying is that is that Trayvon was targeted because because GZ "thought" he might be up to something. I'm in agreement with you there. I think where we disagree is what caused TMs death. IMO opinion TMs death was caused by TM jumping on GZ and doing a "ground and pound" on his face. GZ, rightly so, feared for his life and shot the aggressor. I think your point is that if GZ wasn't following TM, that none of this would've occurred. You're right about that. However, if someone is following someone else, and not threatening them in anyway, the law does not allow that the person being followed can turn around and start beating the hell out of the person following you. If I walk out my front door right now and someone starts following me, it would be stupid of me to jump on the guy and start beating the hell out of him. It could get me killed, and rightly so.

Bottom line, the response to being followed should not be an all out assault on the person following you. That is not, and should not be justified. It might get you killed as it did here.

Except, everything you said about what happened is an assumption that has no basis in proven fact. It could have happened like that, but we simply do not know. Let us assume however, that this IS what happened, does that still justify the killing? He feared for his life? Really? That's a huge leap, it's really not that easy for a teenager to kill a larger, stronger adult with fists. So, we have two leaps to justify all that happened AFTER a over zealous citizen provoked a teen because he thought that he might be a thief and you still want to say that morality was on the side of Zimmerman? Even he doesn't believe it judging by his current death spiral.

[Peikko 1,575]

The race hustlers are pi$$ed because this one got away from them. They picked the wrong case to try and make their point. Yet they still rode it all the way to the end. A pretty big mis-calculation on their part. Turns out race had nothing to do with it. As far as I recall it didn't even come up in the trial. Yet some wont let it go.

Race doesn't come into it, didn't then and doesn't now, except in so far as Zimmerman 'may' have targeted TZ because he stereotyped him as 'looking' like a thief because of a certain 'black teen' stereotype. However, what we do not know if that from the morality perspective, the fact that he did target him as a thief despite having no evidence for his suspicions was what led to the death of the teen. That's where it all started. A guy who was not a policemen acting the part of a policeman and making extremely poor judgement calls. Nothing to do with race? Yeah, I'll run with that, everything to do with targeting a kid because he was a piss poor community watchman.

And Kobe Bryant is right. The only reason this got so much attention was because of the race of the victim (GZ) and the race of the assailant TM.

Unproven. It might be, it might not be. Personally I didn't look at the race of either, but at the actions that we know about. This was an unwarranted killing, period.

Edited March 30, 2014 by The Truth™