Black preschoolers more likely to face suspension

[Danno 1,228]

I'm game. Let's see who will participate.

Once again, you didn't read the article.

I did read the article and many just like them why do you think I stumped you with such a basic question?

These reports always INCLUDE

-the accusation of bias test questions.

Always lack

-The example of such a question.

They never explain how other test takers who are actually from far different cultures do fairly well.

If this were simply just about promoting people beyond their merit that would not be so bad, but this concerted effort by Gov't "takes" the reward from another who did earn it.

And that is the real injustice which is anti-american at it's core.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I did read the article and many just like them why do you think I stumped you with such a basic question?

These reports always INCLUDE

-the accusation of bias test questions.

Always lack

-The example of such a question.

They never explain how other test takers who are actually from far different cultures do fairly well.

If this were simply just about promoting people beyond their merit that would not be so bad, but this concerted effort by Gov't "takes" the reward from another who did earn it.

And that is the real injustice which is anti-american at it's core.

You didn't stump me, I just found your question kind of stupid. And what's up with the girl with the veins popping out of her legs? Is this attractive to you?

The test takers were told by the administration that the test was racist. They didn't complain about the test. The issue is them not getting hired due to passing a racist test.

[Danno 1,228]

You didn't stump me, I just found your question kind of stupid. And what's up with the girl with the veins popping out of her legs? Is this attractive to you?

The test takers were told by the administration that the test was racist. They didn't complain about the test. The issue is them not getting hired due to passing a racist test.

Veins are cool moles, not so much.

We keep hearing about this "racist, test" but lets keep in mind (because it is worth repeating)

-We have no examples of questions that were asked.... that Blacks struggle with.

-Yes some Blacks passed the test but because not enough pass, it was deemed "racist."

Which brings us back to the MEANS BY WHICH IT IS DEEMED RACIST - Disparate Impact (Anything that effects Blacks more negatively than whites)

Blacks did not score well enough to create diversity so a means must be made to insure diversity ......as THAT is the most important goal in fire Fighting.

Once the foundation of Disparate impact was laid.... now it is expanding into other areas such as school discipline which brings us right back to the topic of this subject.

Too many Black kids act up in school (at any level) ....it must be the fault of the school.

In the end we all pay but the biggest losers are those Blacks who want a class room free of disruption or want to get a job without others wondering if they came to that job or promotion by means of a boost.

Marvin we both want the same thing..... the path you support is harming Blacks in the long run.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Veins are cool moles, not so much.

We keep hearing about this "racist, test" but lets keep in mind (because it is worth repeating)

-We have no examples of questions that were asked.... that Blacks struggle with.

-Yes some Blacks passed the test but because not enough pass, it was deemed "racist."

Which brings us back to the MEANS BY WHICH IT IS DEEMED RACIST - Disparate Impact (Anything that effects Blacks more negatively than whites)

Blacks did not score well enough to create diversity so a means must be made to insure diversity ......as THAT is the most important goal in fire Fighting.

Once the foundation of Disparate impact was laid.... now it is expanding into other areas such as school discipline which brings us right back to the topic of this subject.

Too many Black kids act up in school (at any level) ....it must be the fault of the school.

In the end we all pay but the biggest losers are those Blacks who want a class room free of disruption or want to get a job without others wondering if they came to that job or promotion by means of a boost.

Marvin we both want the same thing..... the path you support is harming Blacks in the long run.

Try again.

Sabir says the exam answers were often comically obvious. “They might ask, ‘Someone comes in the firehouse and looks at you with a crazy look. You can speak to him about it, talk to a supervisor, or punch him in the face. Which one should you not do?’ ” He laughs joylessly. If the test was easy, subsequent events have been difficult.

Although Sabir’s results should have been good enough to get him in, for the past three years, he and hundreds of others have been stuck in a strange kind of limbo. Initially, their start date at the Fire Academy was delayed by budget shortfalls. Then, he and his classmates learned that the test they aced was found to be racist by the federal court, and they wouldn’t be allowed to take positions in the department until a better test could be devised, or the city could come up with some other way to hire new firefighters.

In other words, Sabir, a black man, can’t get a job because he passed a test the court believes was intended to make him fail because of his race.

“First, they said they couldn’t hire us because of money. Then they said they couldn’t because minorities didn’t score well. I don’t get it,” says David Cargin, another African-American man in the same position.

Cargin had done well on the test in part, he says, because he, like others, had taken advantage of the preparation that was offered to applicants. “The city offered free classes on how to study for the test,” he says. He alternated between the classes and the gym—where the city provided free training for a physical test—before taking the written exam.

Even though he doesn’t come from a firefighting family, Cargin, 29, says he didn’t consider that a problem. “Does having a parent on the job [as a firefighter] give you an advantage? Yeah. Is it an unreasonable advantage? No,” he says.

Thirty-two-year-old Dion Hines is another black member of the class who tested high but is going nowhere. He takes issue with the court’s conclusion that the entrance exam is unfair to African-Americans or anyone else. “They blatantly say that the test is the problem. It’s not rocket science. It doesn’t require a higher degree of education,” he says. “There are hypothetical situations, and they give you information, and you have to regurgitate that information. You don’t need to already be a firefighter to understand it.”

But the federal courts have repeatedly blamed entrance examinations as part of the FDNY’s inability to hire more minorities.

So, black people aren't saying they can't pass the test. The federal court is.

[Danno 1,228]

Try again.

Sabir says the exam answers were often comically obvious. “They might ask, ‘Someone comes in the firehouse and looks at you with a crazy look. You can speak to him about it, talk to a supervisor, or punch him in the face. Which one should you not do?’ ” He laughs joylessly. If the test was easy, subsequent events have been difficult.

Although Sabir’s results should have been good enough to get him in, for the past three years, he and hundreds of others have been stuck in a strange kind of limbo. Initially, their start date at the Fire Academy was delayed by budget shortfalls. Then, he and his classmates learned that the test they aced was found to be racist by the federal court, and they wouldn’t be allowed to take positions in the department until a better test could be devised, or the city could come up with some other way to hire new firefighters.

In other words, Sabir, a black man, can’t get a job because he passed a test the court believes was intended to make him fail because of his race.

“First, they said they couldn’t hire us because of money. Then they said they couldn’t because minorities didn’t score well. I don’t get it,” says David Cargin, another African-American man in the same position.

Cargin had done well on the test in part, he says, because he, like others, had taken advantage of the preparation that was offered to applicants. “The city offered free classes on how to study for the test,” he says. He alternated between the classes and the gym—where the city provided free training for a physical test—before taking the written exam.

Even though he doesn’t come from a firefighting family, Cargin, 29, says he didn’t consider that a problem. “Does having a parent on the job [as a firefighter] give you an advantage? Yeah. Is it an unreasonable advantage? No,” he says.

Thirty-two-year-old Dion Hines is another black member of the class who tested high but is going nowhere. He takes issue with the court’s conclusion that the entrance exam is unfair to African-Americans or anyone else. “They blatantly say that the test is the problem. It’s not rocket science. It doesn’t require a higher degree of education,” he says. “There are hypothetical situations, and they give you information, and you have to regurgitate that information. You don’t need to already be a firefighter to understand it.”

But the federal courts have repeatedly blamed entrance examinations as part of the FDNY’s inability to hire more minorities.

So, black people aren't saying they can't pass the test. The federal court is.

If that was an example of a questions designed to trip up Blacks, it is worse than I thought.

<<< ‘Someone comes in the firehouse and looks at you with a crazy look. You can speak to him about it, talk to a supervisor, or punch him in the face. Which one should you not do?’>>>

One of use is not understanding what went on with the test Marv so let me try just once more.

1. Applicants take the firefighter test, very few minorities pass.

2. To be hired "pass" is a base line for employment, of all those who pass the best candidates are hired.

3. Due to budget cuts a hiring freeze goes into effect.

4. Minority rights group begins litigation because it believes the test which so many minorities failed must be racist on the grounds of DISPARATE IMPACT.

5. Federal court agrees that the test is not fair because too many minorities failed.

6.Court orders the old test void and a new test be devised in which Minorities can pass in large numbers.

7. Court also rules "passing" the basic test is all that is required..... no more hiring based on test *and* selection performance but rather a standard of diversity is be used.

8. The few Blacks who passed the old test got screwed because that test is no longer valid.

​9. Litigation $$$ is awarded to those minorities who could not pass the old test and may never be able to pass the new test.

10. Tax payers get hosed.

11. Minority firefighters loose some respect as no one knows if their position was secured by merit or by court order.

!2. All across Black media the talking point goes out "The test was deemed racist" & "Blacks who passed the racist test had their test thrown out."

13 The division between Americans continues to needlessly widen.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Danno

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

Having (3) friends which are Firefighters ..they told me they tested more than ......wait ....wow ...this sh!t is like quicksand!

I wasn't thinking...please excuse me while I exit this thread.

(btw...The 3 are relatives & they told me the only way to get in is to know some1 inside & that's not a guarantee if some1 else with higher rank or more tenure wants a pull )...

I am outta here! (visualize the way cartoon characters lift one leg and then zip off screen leaving a cloud of dust where they once stood)

Edited April 2, 2014 by Crashed~N2~Me

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

If that was an example of a questions designed to trip up Blacks, it is worse than I thought.

<<< ‘Someone comes in the firehouse and looks at you with a crazy look. You can speak to him about it, talk to a supervisor, or punch him in the face. Which one should you not do?’>>>

One of use is not understanding what went on with the test Marv so let me try just once more.

1. Applicants take the firefighter test, very few minorities pass.

2. To be hired "pass" is a base line for employment, of all those who pass the best candidates are hired.

3. Due to budget cuts a hiring freeze goes into effect.

4. Minority rights group begins litigation because it believes the test which so many minorities failed must be racist on the grounds of DISPARATE IMPACT.

5. Federal court agrees that the test is not fair because too many minorities failed.

6.Court orders the old test void and a new test be devised in which Minorities can pass in large numbers.

7. Court also rules "passing" the basic test is all that is required..... no more hiring based on test *and* selection performance but rather a standard of diversity is be used.

8. The few Blacks who passed the old test got screwed because that test is no longer valid.

​9. Litigation $$$ is awarded to those minorities who could not pass the old test and may never be able to pass the new test.

10. Tax payers get hosed.

11. Minority firefighters loose some respect as no one knows if their position was secured by merit or by court order.

!2. All across Black media the talking point goes out "The test was deemed racist" & "Blacks who passed the racist test had their test thrown out."

13 The division between Americans continues to needlessly widen.

I understand that. Wow.

[Danno 1,228]

(btw...The 3 are relatives & they told me the only way to get in is to know some1 inside & that's not a guarantee if some1 else with higher rank or more tenure wants a pull )...

I am outta here! (visualize the way cartoon characters lift one leg and then zip off screen leaving a cloud of dust where they once stood)

Now that makes perfect sense.

It is very common for people to want to work around those they know or who around those who get a "nod" from someone in the club already.

This could naturally diminish ANY outsiders chance at getting in.

In fact I once got hired under this same common method of someone vouching that I would be an asset and I would work well with others. I by passed the normal process big-time.

This harkens the old saying "It's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know."

It's not about racism unless you would say black owned businesses are vile racists because nearly every Black owned small business is often entirely staffed by black employees as are Asian and hispanic run businesses.

The fire dept. is a public entity, they have to have a process which is unbiased and open to all who qualify.

Dumbing down tests and using race as a marker is just as wrong and more dangerous.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Danno