Kochs will dish out millions for polluting this Texas town

[deleted-05292014 331]

Not at all. But when you mention one, then, when challenged, back in to the other, it looks rather like changed your story. And there are enough posters here who do just that.

Sometimes, it pays to ask the question.

No seems like you're just trying to pick a fight with me. I thought you were more intelligent than that.

Fact is environmental racism, the practice and terminology exists and it is taught at an academic level. That is why I said that to show as evidence that it does exist. I'm sure many people have seen it first hand. The thing is, you don't find toxic waste dumps, or treatment plants in rich neighborhoods. I know of poor communities that have waste treatment plants in their backyard and yes those areas pretty much stink but have been cleared as environmentally safe. Do you think one of those plants would be next to a neighborhood the Kochs live in? No.

The only point I would argue is that it is as much classicism as it is racism. Because poor White communities also suffer - and equally they have no voice in government to protest.

[JohnR! 5,495]

No seems like you're just trying to pick a fight with me. I thought you were more intelligent than that.

Fact is environmental racism, the practice and terminology exists and it is taught at an academic level. That is why I said that to show as evidence that it does exist. I'm sure many people have seen it first hand. The thing is, you don't find toxic waste dumps, or treatment plants in rich neighborhoods. I know of poor communities that have waste treatment plants in their backyard and yes those areas pretty much stink but have been cleared as environmentally safe. Do you think one of those plants would be next to a neighborhood the Kochs live in? No.

The only point I would argue is that it is as much classicism as it is racism. Because poor White communities also suffer - and equally they have no voice in government to protest.

Right on the money - pun intended. Seldom - if ever - you will see similar issues in the more affluent neighborhoods, especially because zoning permits can be bought along with the right politicians. Because their toxic waste only affects the poor, blacks and latinos, the Kochs plant will get a free pass from the motley crew. They can only see as far as the extent of their political bias affords them, by choice or circumstance, regrettably.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

The libs are running scared knowing that their leader's signature legislation is a doomed failure. After they lose the Senate this fall, their intention is to blame the loss on the Koch brothers and their money. After the election there will be courses available in Sociological Bootstrap Pulling. The objective is to organize pizza and beer parties to help those who would like to move to another location to get a U-Haul and help to load the truck. Instead of just providing directions on how to shop somewhere else, someone will physically walk them to a new store to show them how easy it is to shop somewhere else.

[deleted-05292014 331]

Right on the money - pun intended. Seldom - if ever - you will see similar issues in the more affluent neighborhoods, especially because zoning permits can be bought along with the right politicians. Because their toxic waste only affects the poor, blacks and latinos, the Kochs plant will get a free pass from the motley crew. They can only see as far as the extent of their political bias affords them, by choice or circumstance, regrettably.

Yup money talks bs walks. Most poor communities have very little representation at any level of government local,state or federal. They don't have the money or resources to fight where these waste facilities and toxic dumps are placed. It's even worse on an international level where in some countries there are very few restrictions.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Before you get off your high horse I though I would explain this study somewhat. Thsi study was talking about placing hazardous sites in the future. The rationale was that corporations would move hazardous sites out of the country and go into countries with little oversight. These communities could hardly complain because their government could be bought and paid for.

I was working in the New Orleans area and got a contract to run the lo level lab and enviromental lab for Chalmette Refinery. The residents that lived near tried to use the enviromental racism charge to get the refinery to pay them a weekly check for their inconviencing of having to live so near them. In fact I was there as a group of the residents was on a tour and they were brought into my labs to see the testing we did. I mentioned that I alos lived across the street. Of course I lady said that I didn't have to live there and they did. Eventually the refinery offered to buy all the properties and make a green belt around the refinery. Tey balked saying that their housing prices were low and they couldn't move to nicer places. The refinery offered to pay 150% of the values that would place them able to live in most middle class neighborhoods. They refused this and went ahead with the lawsuit and promptly lost.

This study was used and I my lab analysis showed that the air quality was actually real good. I even was able to show that the French Quarter was dirtier or even the Garden district which is very high end.

Of course since then we have moved many of our manufactoring facilities to China and other countries with little oversight.

http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-environ-082508-094348

The article reviews two decades of scholars' claims that exposures to pollution and other environmental risks are unequally distributed by race and class, examines case studies of environmental justice social movements and the history and politics of environmental justice policy making in the United States, and describes the emerging issue of global climate justice. The authors engage the contentious literature on how to quantitatively measure and document environmental injustice, especially the complex problems of having data of very different types and areas (such as zip codes, census tracts, or concentric circles) around polluting facilities or exposed populations. Also considered is the value of perspectives from critical race theory and ethnic studies for making sense of these social phenomena. The article concludes with a discussion of the globalization of the environmental justice movement, discourse, and issues, as well as with some policy implications of finding and understanding environmental justice. One unique feature of this review is its breadth and diversity, given the different approaches taken by the three coauthors.

http://archive.gao.gov/d48t13/121648.pdf

According to the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO), in the U.S., there is a correlation between the location of hazardous waste facilities and the ethnic background of an area's residents. In predominantly minority areas, voter registration and education are often lower than average, and citizens are less likely to challenge proposals or seek financial compensation for environmental and health damages.^[8] Implementing techniques to stop hazardous waste sites requires time, money, and political influence or backing. Resources such as meeting places, access to private and public records, and funding for technical assistance are also required for action.^[9] Minority groups may not have full access to these tools and resources creating challenges for the groups in fighting against the placement of toxic sites. Further, controversial projects are less likely to be sited in areas expected to pursue collective action.^[10] Some studies also suggest that the lack of protest could be due to fear of losing area jobs.^[11] Non-minority communities are more likely to succeed when opposing the siting of hazardous waste and sewage treatment facilities, incinerators, and freeways in their areas.^[12] Non-minority communities have better chance at accessing these tools and resources used to prevent placement of toxic sites and also negative impacts of environmental policy decisions.

Books

Packing Them In: An Archaeology of Environmental Racism in Chicago, 1865-1954

http://www.amazon.com/Packing-Them-Archaeology-Environmental-1865-1954/dp/0739110292/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1395610438&sr=8-9&keywords=environmental+racism

Toxic Communities: Environmental Racism, Industrial Pollution, and Residential Mobility

http://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Communities-Environmental-Industrial-Residential/dp/1479861782/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1395610498&sr=8-12&keywords=environmental+racism

From the Ground Up: Environmental Racism and the Rise of the Environmental Justice Movement

http://www.amazon.com/From-Ground-Environmental-University-Paperback/dp/0814715370/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395610498&sr=8-1&keywords=environmental+racism

When Bill Clinton signed an Executive Order on Environmental Justice in 1994, the phenomenon of environmental racism--the disproportionate impact of environmental hazards, particularly toxic waste dumps and polluting factories, on people of color and low-income communities--gained unprecedented recognition. Behind the President's signature, however, lies a remarkable tale of grassroots activism and political mobilization. Today, thousands of activists in hundreds of locales are fighting for their children, their communities, their quality of life, and their health.

From the Ground Up critically examines one of the fastest growing social movements in the United States, the movement for environmental justice. Tracing the movement's roots, Luke Cole and Sheila Foster combine long-time activism with powerful storytelling to provide gripping case studies of communities across the U.S--towns like Kettleman City, California; Chester, Pennsylvania; and Dilkon, Arizona--and their struggles against corporate polluters. The authors effectively use social, economic and legal analysis to illustrate the historical and contemporary causes for environmental racism. Environmental justice struggles, they demonstrate, transform individuals, communities, institutions and even the nation as a whole.

[deleted-05292014 331]

The libs are running scared knowing that their leader's signature legislation is a doomed failure. After they lose the Senate this fall, their intention is to blame the loss on the Koch brothers and their money. After the election there will be courses available in Sociological Bootstrap Pulling. The objective is to organize pizza and beer parties to help those who would like to move to another location to get a U-Haul and help to load the truck. Instead of just providing directions on how to shop somewhere else, someone will physically walk them to a new store to show them how easy it is to shop somewhere else.

You could go back to China and live there. They have a great record when it comes to environmental safety. I for one don't want to live in a country like that.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

You could go back to China and live there. They have a great record when it comes to environmental safety. I for one don't want to live in a country like that.

I would encourage anyone to travel to other countries to see how people live. One of the most impressive characteristics about China is just how resilient the people are. I suggest you go there and live with the rice farmers for a few months to get a basic lesson in bootstrap pulling. It's amazing how much the people focus on strong family support rather than complaining about how they have been deprived. They know the value of education, and recognize their countries problems. They can also name several cities in the US and their demographic makeup.

[lostinblue 1,989]

You could go back to China and live there. They have a great record when it comes to environmental safety. I for one don't want to live in a country like that.

Go back to China ... A bit racist of you......

[LibCampFireClub 635]

Go back to China ... A bit racist of you......

Reported!

[deleted-05292014 331]

Simply not true. I doubt there is a more Federally regulated industry.

Before you get off your high horse I though I would explain this study somewhat. Thsi study was talking about placing hazardous sites in the future. The rationale was that corporations would move hazardous sites out of the country and go into countries with little oversight. These communities could hardly complain because their government could be bought and paid for.

I was working in the New Orleans area and got a contract to run the lo level lab and enviromental lab for Chalmette Refinery. The residents that lived near tried to use the enviromental racism charge to get the refinery to pay them a weekly check for their inconviencing of having to live so near them. In fact I was there as a group of the residents was on a tour and they were brought into my labs to see the testing we did. I mentioned that I alos lived across the street. Of course I lady said that I didn't have to live there and they did. Eventually the refinery offered to buy all the properties and make a green belt around the refinery. Tey balked saying that their housing prices were low and they couldn't move to nicer places. The refinery offered to pay 150% of the values that would place them able to live in most middle class neighborhoods. They refused this and went ahead with the lawsuit and promptly lost.

This study was used and I my lab analysis showed that the air quality was actually real good. I even was able to show that the French Quarter was dirtier or even the Garden district which is very high end.

Of course since then we have moved many of our manufactoring facilities to China and other countries with little oversight.

If you read what I originally wrote, you will see I was talking about environmental racism in broad terms as it exists and you dismissed what I said as non-existent. You said that it is the most federally regulated industry and therefore it does not exist. I present you with scholarly material on the subject. So I don't know what more we have to discuss.

[deleted-05292014 331]

Go back to China ... A bit racist of you......

Exexpat said he lived in China in another post that I read, hence my reference. I think perhaps you are showing your OWN racist colors perhaps you are used to telling Black people to go "back to Africa" - but one thing you should know about me, is that not only am I not prejudiced but I make it a point to surround myself with diverse people from all walks of life, classes, races.

Perhaps you should do the same, you would have a much fuller life.

[luckytxn 2,264]

From you assassinating the Kochs to a study that had nothing to do with the subject at hand? I agree we can't discuss this.

If you read what I originally wrote, you will see I was talking about environmental racism in broad terms as it exists and you dismissed what I said as non-existent. You said that it is the most federally regulated industry and therefore it does not exist. I present you with scholarly material on the subject. So I don't know what more we have to discuss.

[deleted-05292014 331]

I would encourage anyone to travel to other countries to see how people live. One of the most impressive characteristics about China is just how resilient the people are. I suggest you go there and live with the rice farmers for a few months to get a basic lesson in bootstrap pulling. It's amazing how much the people focus on strong family support rather than complaining about how they have been deprived. They know the value of education, and recognize their countries problems. They can also name several cities in the US and their demographic makeup.

Thanks I've been there, appreciate your concern for my own personal growth. Although I don't have to travel half way around the world to appreciate or understand hard work and sacrifice - perhaps that is only for privileged people as yourself to fancy themselves that experience.

From you assassinating the Kochs to a study that had nothing to do with the subject at hand? I agree we can't discuss this.

I did not even mention the Kochs in my original reply. Can you please quote me? No of course you cant.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

Exexpat said he lived in China in another post that I read, hence my reference. I think perhaps you are showing your OWN racist colors perhaps you are used to telling Black people to go "back to Africa" - but one thing you should know about me, is that not only am I not prejudiced but I make it a point to surround myself with diverse people from all walks of life, classes, races.

If you truly feel a burning passion about environmental deprivation, then you should volunteer yourself in helping them find a better life and education.

[JohnR! 5,495]

I would encourage anyone to travel to other countries to see how people live. One of the most impressive characteristics about China is just how resilient the people are. I suggest you go there and live with the rice farmers for a few months to get a basic lesson in bootstrap pulling. It's amazing how much the people focus on strong family support rather than complaining about how they have been deprived. They know the value of education, and recognize their countries problems. They can also name several cities in the US and their demographic makeup.

You speak as though the Chinese have chosen to live in those circumstances for the benefits it will bring to their backbones and for character development rather than by the oppression of their own government who denies them a voice with which to complain. They have no choice but to shut up and move on with their lives. Those who can afford do what it takes to buy passages to other countries. There is an entire industry based on smuggling Chinese out of their country.

I find it ironic that anyone should attempt to extol the virtues of Chinese government at a time when many in America, in their misguided unawareness, are expressing their unmitigated feigned outrage at the current administration for the same reasons you applaud the Chinese government.

Thanks for the laugh!

Edited March 23, 2014 by Gegel