Robert Reich: “Paid-what-you’re-worth” is a toxic myth

[Danno 1,228]

Despite any fantasy that you are trying to cook up here, the issue I actually spoke to is what value we as a society place on caring for our young and our old. That value is called minimum wage. It's what we pay those that do the actual work of caring for the young and old. You might think that's great. I, on the other hand, think it tells a lot about who we as a people are. And it's really not a good story that is being told.

Look I know your intentions are good but how does it help anyone to be out of a job?

Automation will remove many of these jobs and the numbers of people fighting for those left will only grow.

Black youth who have already paid the price of these grand schemes to elevate the earning levels will continue to pay as black kids will not find those jobs which get them on the path of learning skills and working experience.

The last time Black teen workplace participation exceeded whites took place before the Minimum wage act.

Do you agree when the guy making $8 phr goes to $14prh ... the guy making fourteen must also go up accordingly?

If not, who would hire the unskilled at 14 when the skilled is at 14?

If you agree it is a game of leap-frog, in that everyone then ends up with an increase, arent' we talking about helping more than just the bottom rung people?

MOst of these jobs do not come from Micky Ds' most come from mom n Pop businesses which are not able to pay that kind of money for unskilled help.

My first job was as a Carpenters helper, another was for an Apt complex picking up trash and similar skilled tasked..... how much do you think they would be willing to pay?

With these Minimum wage laws what you end up with is creating more of a magnet for illegals which displaces more bottom rung workers.

PLease stop it, you have done enough already.

Close the border

Make new trade deals which preserve our jobs

Let the market correct the mess you have made.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Look I know your intentions are good but how does it help anyone to be out of a job?

Automation will remove many of these jobs and the numbers of people fighting for those left will only grow.

Black youth who have already paid the price of these grand schemes to elevate the earning levels will continue to pay as black kids will not find those jobs which get them on the path of learning skills and working experience.

The last time Black teen workplace participation exceeded whites took place before the Minimum wage act.

Do you agree when the guy making $8 phr goes to $14prh ... the guy making fourteen must also go up accordingly?

If not, who would hire the unskilled at 14 when the skilled is at 14?

If you agree it is a game of leap-frog, in that everyone then ends up with an increase, arent' we talking about helping more than just the bottom rung people?

MOst of these jobs do not come from Micky Ds' most come from mom n Pop businesses which are not able to pay that kind of money for unskilled help.

My first job was as a Carpenters helper, another was for an Apt complex picking up trash and similar skilled tasked..... how much do you think they would be willing to pay?

With these Minimum wage laws what you end up with is creating more of a magnet for illegals which displaces more bottom rung workers.

PLease stop it, you have done enough already.

Close the border

Make new trade deals which preserve our jobs

Let the market correct the mess you have made.

None of that has anything to do with the issue at hand.

[Danno 1,228]

None of that has anything to do with the issue at hand.

Don't duck, will the guy making $14 get a raise when the minimum goes to 14?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Don't duck, will the guy making $14 get a raise when the minimum goes to 14?

Start a thread if you want to talk about that. This thread isn't it.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Mr. Big Dog

[Karee 4,190]

The wisdom that if you pay workers enough to afford the products and services they provide doesn't have an expiration date, except to those who think having a working class of poor people is a good economic model.

I'll never understand that line of thinking. The primary purpose of running a business is to turn a profit. The primary purpose of a business is NOT to make sure their employees can afford to buy their products. If that happens, great.

You should probably read a bit more about Henry Ford. He was no friend to the working man, and definitely no fan of the unions. Here's some examples of his union negotiations:

[Peikko 1,575]

I'll never understand that line of thinking. The primary purpose of running a business is to turn a profit. The primary purpose of a business is NOT to make sure their employees can afford to buy their products. If that happens, great.

You should probably read a bit more about Henry Ford. He was no friend to the working man, and definitely no fan of the unions. Here's some examples of his union negotiations:

Sure, but business does not exist outside of he human experience. If it did, the idea of profits with or without ethics would be moot. As it stands, profit is on the back of human experience, good, bad and indifferent. Everything about business should reflect that. This idea that profit is king is all fine and dandy but failure to reflect the human part of the equation is an epic fail.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

All told, if you scrap a human for hide and minerals, they are worth about $5.21. Anybody that thinks they are worth more than that is delusional.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Then everyone is delusional.

[Póg mo 1,749]

Don't duck, will the guy making $14 get a raise when the minimum goes to 14?

Yes, in all probability he would, but that in itself is not entirely a bad thing.

[Póg mo 1,749]

I'll never understand that line of thinking. The primary purpose of running a business is to turn a profit. The primary purpose of a business is NOT to make sure their employees can afford to buy their products. If that happens, great.

If nobody can afford their products, what happens then? That's right, they go out of business. End of story.

[Danno 1,228]

Yes, in all probability he would, but that in itself is not entirely a bad thing.

Ok, just so we understand this is not about creating a "living wage" and all that, it is about the progressives being the puppet masters over the economy again..... and no doubt with the same results we have seen here and abroad.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

If nobody can afford their products, what happens then? That's right, they go out of business. End of story.

True, although Wal-Mart's economic model does seem to pin the working poor to chasing the cheapest prices and products because their spending choices are extremely limited.

[Operator 1,927]

The idea of paying someone enough to afford the goods or services they provide; in my opinion, is a foolish goal.a fry chef is paid enough to afford french fries. A welder at the naval shipyard is not paid enough to afford a battle ship, nor should they be. People are paid not what they are worth, people are paid the worth of the function they perform.

I employ people who perform different functions. I pay engineers a wage that is commensurate with the function they perform and I pay clerical people in the same way. It's a different wage but its based on the value of the function not the value of the person.

The function of stocking a shelf at a big box retailer does not generate the revenue that successfully managing a hedge-fund does so therefore those jobs don't pay the same.

I really don't understand the argument.

[Peikko 1,575]

The idea of paying someone enough to afford the goods or services they provide; in my opinion, is a foolish goal.a fry chef is paid enough to afford french fries. A welder at the naval shipyard is not paid enough to afford a battle ship, nor should they be. People are paid not what they are worth, people are paid the worth of the function they perform.

I employ people who perform different functions. I pay engineers a wage that is commensurate with the function they perform and I pay clerical people in the same way. It's a different wage but its based on the value of the function not the value of the person.

The function of stocking a shelf at a big box retailer does not generate the revenue that successfully managing a hedge-fund does so therefore those jobs don't pay the same.

I really don't understand the argument.

No, because if that's how 'worth' is evaluated many people cease to be able to afford the price of living without outside subsidy. The point is that everyone should have the means to support themselves without government assistance because everyone that works in a full time position should be worth that minimum amount. Paying people less than that amount demands that the means to assist them to survive has to be garnered elsewhere or you create a subclass of people who are unable to ever lift themselves out of systemic poverty. Oh wait, that's what's happened in the good 'ol US.

[Operator 1,927]

No, because if that's how 'worth' is evaluated many people cease to be able to afford the price of living without outside subsidy. The point is that everyone should have the means to support themselves without government assistance because everyone that works in a full time position should be worth that minimum amount. Paying people less than that amount demands that the means to assist them to survive has to be garnered elsewhere or you create a subclass of people who are unable to ever lift themselves out of systemic poverty. Oh wait, that's what's happened in the good 'ol US.

OK, what is the price of living without outside subsidy? Is it anything over $16,105/yr?

Where would you start?