Crimea votes to secede from Ukraine and join Russia

[LibCampFireClub 635]

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

It is supposedly noble when we do it.

The difference is, when we do it, it is not to protect Americans already living there, it is to bring "democracy" to the oppressed population, and then when we don't like the outcome of the elections and how those elected folks are running the country, we get all indignant and leave, and nowadays, send in the drones to accidentally cause "collateral damage." Oops! We thought Sheik Hates America was staying there."

Face it, the west does what it does best - destabilize legitimate governments to appease european vanity, then cry, "Oh America, come help us," when things don't go as expected. europe is not the center of the world, hasn't been since WWII.

Edited March 17, 2014 by The Postmaster

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

No, Obama loses interest in everything as soon as tee time comes around. We've seen more countries go hell since Obama has been in office than any president in recent memory. Either he's complicit in US foreign policy or he's completely clueless. Probably both.

I go with useless in foreign matters. You can't lead from behind. That would be like pushing a fire hose to the fire, rather than pulling it.

[BatmanUSA 105]

Crimea was originally part of Russia but Kruschev (who was Ukrainian), gave it to the Ukraine. When the Soviet Union dissolved, there was talk about Crimea going back to Russia but Yeltsin didn't do it.

Who really knows what started the riots in Kiev.??

Russia and the EU were both offering economic incentives to Ukraine. The Ukraine government decided to accept Russia's offer, then the riots started in the pro-EU regions in Ukraine. The Russians in Crimea asked Russia for help/protection.

Now the EU has offered additional economic assistance to Ukraine and Obama seems to have found a Billion American Dollars to offer Ukraine.

Scotland has an upcoming vote to decide their independence from the UK, but no one is interested in that.

Puerto Rico has had votes on independence or becoming a state, but there wasn't much of an uproar in the USA about that.

The people in Libya, Iraq, Afganistan never asked the USA for help but we were there. Several years ago there was a little uprising in Iran and they asked the USA for help but we did nothing. And then there is the internal war in Syria.... So what is the U.S. foreign policy when it comes to supporting peoples rights and respecting there choices for freedom.?

So now the people of Crimea have voted to secede from Ukraine and join Russia.. Was it a fair, free and uncorrupted election? Are all elections in the USA fair, free and uncorrupted.?

If the people of Crimea voted to join Turkey would there be an international uproar.?

Is this entire situation made worse because of "the west's" fears of the old Soviet Empire and lingering concerns from the Cold War.?

Look at Europe and Russia... Most of Europe is in the EU or has applied to join that and NATO. So how do you think the Russian's feel.? Like they are being surrounded by NATO and that it is the "west" that is continuing the Cold War.. So the Russian's believe they are only protecting themselves....

The Russian military has much old/out-dated equipment and their navy boasts having a single aircraft carrier.. It really doesn't seem like much of a worldwide threat..... But NATO continues to expand and surround Russia... so who is the aggressor.?????

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I didn't say Obama was Bush (or Putin). I said you could add his name to the list. They all share the doctrine of f'ing around in other countries affairs when they should be fixing their own problems.

That's generally what world leaders do. What's your point?

Some people seem to think plans should be pursuing military options in Syria or Ukraine, would that be a good thing?

What do you think should be done?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

europe needs to fight its own battles, without the "assistance" of the US. That should have been the case in both world wars, and the cold war, and before the US gets involved in another shooting war in Eurasia, just don't.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

Some people seem to think plans should be pursuing military options in Syria or Ukraine, would that be a good thing?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So isolationism or total war about sums up poster's understanding of geopolitics.

Brilliant.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Simply, really. europe's problems should remain europe's problems.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Exacly. This is not a problem for the U.S.

europe needs to fight its own battles, without the "assistance" of the US. That should have been the case in both world wars, and the cold war, and before the US gets involved in another shooting war in Eurasia, just don't.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Simply, really. europe's problems should remain europe's problems.

Until they become the USA's problems eh? Have you heard the expression 'no man is an island'?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Unlike europe, the America's are proper continents, large land masses completely surrounded by water, or connected only by a narrow isthmus.

[JohnR! 5,495]

europe needs to fight its own battles, without the "assistance" of the US. That should have been the case in both world wars, and the cold war, and before the US gets involved in another shooting war in Eurasia, just don't.

Exacly. This is not a problem for the U.S.

IMHO, before we even consider that, the question is whether this is a problem for the Ukraine. Apparently it is not. The Russians have been amassing troops at the border and sending troops into Crimea for more than a few days now. It should follow that the Ukrainian army should have tried to match that movement, and yet, they allowed the Russians to walk in unimpeded.

It has been reported that Russian troops took out TV stations, cell providers and other communications means but we fail to hear reports of what the Ukrainian authorities are doing to reverse that.

It has been reported that the plants from which gas, electricity and communications are provided to Crimea still remain in Ukrainian territory. Logic should follow that the Ukrainian army should have taken control of these plants and gain some vital leverage in this crisis.

So far, it seems the Russian have been coming and going at will, their movements unfettered bu the invaded country's defenses.

It seems very clear that the Ukraine's notion of help is having the west, yet once again, fight their battles for them. Their call for assistance would be best heeded if they had some skin in the game.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Isolationism is naive. If you run your country that way don't be too surprised to discover that someone else has claimed all the territory and resources for themselves.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Papa Lazarou

[deleted-05292014 331]

Wait a second is Postmaster trying to reignite the debate of whether or not we should have been involved in WW1 and WW2

It's not even football season yet, but you get a big fat

C'MON MAN!