Visa Waiver Program for Ukraine

[SAT 9,609]

My personal estimate is 12 million in NYC alone

[Darnell 8,479]

Helping the industrious and intelligent people of Ukraine travel more freely and expand their horizons would increase their understanding of the modern world and true democracy and solidify their opposition to kleptocratic rulers such as Putin.

Repeat for emphasis:

Already done, this century, into Europe and into SE Asia.

Already Done !

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

A very poor application process. "B visas are adjudicated based on applicant interviews; the interviews generally last between 60 and 90 seconds.^[55] Due to time constraints, adjudicators profile applicants.^[55] Certain demographics, such as young adults, those who are single and/or unemployed, almost never receive visas.^[55] Adjudicators are evaluated on how fast they carry out interviews, not the quality of adjudication decisions.^[56] The validity of B visa decisions is not evaluated.^[56] "

And? That's the reality the vast majority of people all over the world are up against. Seems to me that maybe perhaps the visa adjudication process could use some overhaul but this is not an argument to include a country that fails to meet the VWP benchmarks - by huge margins no less - into the program.

[MacUK 983]

A very poor application process. "B visas are adjudicated based on applicant interviews; the interviews generally last between 60 and 90 seconds.^[55] Due to time constraints, adjudicators profile applicants.^[55] Certain demographics, such as young adults, those who are single and/or unemployed, almost never receive visas.^[55] Adjudicators are evaluated on how fast they carry out interviews, not the quality of adjudication decisions.^[56] The validity of B visa decisions is not evaluated.^[56] "

I'm not looking for sympathy - just passing along a suggestion that those who are interested in may like to see.

So instead of having a system where individuals are judged on their individual circumstances you want to give carte blanche to everyone.

Your idealism may be commendable but your logic is weak.

I say again, the US imposes strict criteria on a countries eligibility for the VWP.

Ukraine doesn't qualify. It's that simple.

Going by your argument, every country on Earth should have free travel.

[Asia 2,499]

For starters do not let anyone have a tourist visa for any longer than 3 weeks. That should be plenty. Now someone can get a tourist visa for 6 months, then get it extended for another 6 months, then apply for asylum.

But people who want to abuse the visa they received, don't care for how long they got it.

They just want to cross the border.

[Karee 4,191]

Take a look at this forum:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/forum/127-effects-of-major-family-changes-on-immigration-benefits/

I'm not saying Ukraine is the #1 offender, but it's up there on the list of countries where the immigrant gets here and then turns around and files a DV case and later a VAWA case. Some fo them are really blatant cases of visa fraud. Not only does the petitioner end up with a divorce, but a restraining order on his record for the rest of his life, whether they laid a hand on the person or not.

I think the OP is looking at the wrong villian here. It's not the U.S. govt, it's the folks in Ukraine (and other countries) that abuse tourist visas. I didn't get to see my wife in Thailand for over a year while this slow process worked it's way through. There's no way she would've gotten a tourist visa during that time, not because the U.S. govt. is some oppressive body picking on the poor folks of Thailand, but because there are alot of Thais that came to the U.S. on a tourist visas, and never left as they should have.

Trust me, I'm no fan of the U.S. govt., but in this case they're right. We have enough illegal immigrants here already. We don't need more.

[Asia 2,499]

People should make their own decisions within the law.

I agree.

But some people don't have a chance to make their own decisions, because some other people before them abused the law.

Did you bribe them with kielbasa?

Nope. Not all the consular officers in Poland like kiełbasa, Steve

And I'd never bribe any officials. Are you crazy?

[JohnR! 5,495]

Please consider signing this petition.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/allow-ukrainian-citizens-90-day-entrance-usa-passport-without-visa/m0BDgkb5

7 countries in eastern Europe were added in 2008. This is one action that the US could take to support the Ukrainian people during this crisis.

I don't think your petition will be successful, but I will not be the one standing in its way. I will gladly sign it.

I commend your initiative, where so many nay-sayers would rather have you sitting on your hands.

[Rwlaird 18]

So instead of having a system where individuals are judged on their individual circumstances you want to give carte blanche to everyone.

Your idealism may be commendable but your logic is weak.

I say again, the US imposes strict criteria on a countries eligibility for the VWP.

Ukraine doesn't qualify. It's that simple.

Going by your argument, every country on Earth should have free travel.

I guess I didn’t realize that the criteria is sacrosanct and should not be questioned. If you don’t agree then don’t sign the petition. It's that simple.

And? That's the reality the vast majority of people all over the world are up against. Seems to me that maybe perhaps the visa adjudication process could use some overhaul but this is not an argument to include a country that fails to meet the VWP benchmarks - by huge margins no less - into the program.

I agree and was not using that as an argument to include Ukraine in the VWP. There are other good reasons, as I stated earlier. I was just making that point in response to a question.

But people who want to abuse the visa they received, don't care for how long they got it.

They just want to cross the border.

At least they should become illegal and subject to enforcement after a few weeks instead of being legal for 6 months plus another 6 months then extended by a legal request for asylum.

[Rwlaird 18]

Take a look at this forum:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/forum/127-effects-of-major-family-changes-on-immigration-benefits/

I'm not saying Ukraine is the #1 offender, but it's up there on the list of countries where the immigrant gets here and then turns around and files a DV case and later a VAWA case. Some fo them are really blatant cases of visa fraud. Not only does the petitioner end up with a divorce, but a restraining order on his record for the rest of his life, whether they laid a hand on the person or not.

I think the OP is looking at the wrong villian here. It's not the U.S. govt, it's the folks in Ukraine (and other countries) that abuse tourist visas. I didn't get to see my wife in Thailand for over a year while this slow process worked it's way through. There's no way she would've gotten a tourist visa during that time, not because the U.S. govt. is some oppressive body picking on the poor folks of Thailand, but because there are alot of Thais that came to the U.S. on a tourist visas, and never left as they should have.

Trust me, I'm no fan of the U.S. govt., but in this case they're right. We have enough illegal immigrants here already. We don't need more.

Of course we don't need more illegal immigrants. We need more enforcement.

[Karee 4,191]

Of course we don't need more illegal immigrants. We need more enforcement.

Agreed, but by implementing VWP in Ukraine, don't you think that would add to the numbers of illegal immigrants? People that come on VWP and don't leave?

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

It is really expensive to deport people. Like $10K per person or something. It's more fiscally responsible to prevent fishy people from getting here than using taxpayer money to detain and deport them. Why should the US agree to pay $10K to deport people as a show of "solidarity"?

[Rwlaird 18]

Agreed, but by implementing VWP in Ukraine, don't you think that would add to the numbers of illegal immigrants? People that come on VWP and don't leave?

Yes, of course it would. The question is how many. There are a few bad apples in any bunch but I do not think the number would be significant. Ukrainians are proud of their country and not looking to escape.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

**Post moved to Current Events and Hot Social Topics

Why?

[Rwlaird 18]

It is really expensive to deport people. Like $10K per person or something. It's more fiscally responsible to prevent fishy people from getting here than using taxpayer money to detain and deport them. Why should the US agree to pay $10K to deport people as a show of "solidarity"?

There are probably no fishy people in the 27 countries on the current list in the VWP.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Rwlaird