Honor Killings

[jordanianprincess 0]

He wouldn't kill her but he would definitely push for her to move to Egypt.on a side note he would totally kill his son if he were gay and actually sleeping with men. i know that wasn't part of the survey but thought i'd add a bit more flavor to it. :energetic:

The thing that concerns me about this is that she can be killed once she arrives there. I know a family like this, a Jordanian family. The girl had a boyfriend and the father found out and scolded her and did nothing else. A year later after the dust had settled, the family went on a vacation to Jordan. As soon as they arrived into the airport, the father beat her down. He didnt kill her, but had he laid a hand on her here in the US she could have reported him to the cops. She had no recourse in Jordan.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Doodle do you mean if you have a daughter in the US he would send her back to Egypt? Ummm would you be ok with that?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Indian families, mostly from northern and northwestern India, have been known to take their daughters to India "for a vacation" and forcibly marry them off to some man and leave her there... this is when the daughter has been "problematic" and caused embarressment to the parents.

[Karen_L 1]

This is neither ME nor NA, but ... Honor Killings of Women in Albania Albania has a very strong honor code (The Kanun, it's called) which still holds a lot of sway in certain isolated parts of Albania and ethnic Albanian lands such as Kosovo.

For my husband, who is from the city and from a liberal family, the Kanun is this interesting historical document that shaped the culture of his country, but he doesn't think of it as a relavent guide for living nowadays. BUT one of the biggest insults one can say in Albania is "fukc your sister!" so there is still this idea that the women in the family bear all of the family's honor, especially the sisters/daughters.

[doodlebug 3]

Doodle do you mean if you have a daughter in the US he would send her back to Egypt? Ummm would you be ok with that?

Well obviously i'd move there too. i meant that we'd all move there and it's not to kill her, it's to have her grow up in this environment instead of in the usa. i already agreed to move here once my daughters are done with college so we'll most probably already be here. anyway the goal of her being here would be to make her realize what a society is like without all the sexual innuendos every two seconds and to see that girls here dress appropriately and don't go out with men without their wali,etc. not to kill her. he honestly couldn't do that and i tend to think he wouldn't be able to kill a son who is opently and actively gay either but hopefully we'll never have to find out.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

This is neither ME nor NA, but ... Honor Killings of Women in Albania Albania has a very strong honor code (The Kanun, it's called) which still holds a lot of sway in certain isolated parts of Albania and ethnic Albanian lands such as Kosovo.

For my husband, who is from the city and from a liberal family, the Kanun is this interesting historical document that shaped the culture of his country, but he doesn't think of it as a relavent guide for living nowadays. BUT one of the biggest insults one can say in Albania is "fukc your sister!" so there is still this idea that the women in the family bear all of the family's honor, especially the sisters/daughters.

lol, albania sounds like India. In northern india, 'kanun' means law. It is applied loosely to mean the actual laws and the code of honor. And we use 'bhenchod' as an insult too... means you fukc your sister. Another insult is "sala" which means "i fukc your sister".. "sala" by the way has a perfectly non-insulting use as well... my sisters husband will be my "sala".

Edited January 4, 2007 by Gupt

[sarah and hicham 3]

Doodle do you mean if you have a daughter in the US he would send her back to Egypt? Ummm would you be ok with that?

Well obviously i'd move there too. i meant that we'd all move there and it's not to kill her, it's to have her grow up in this environment instead of in the usa. i already agreed to move here once my daughters are done with college so we'll most probably already be here. anyway the goal of her being here would be to make her realize what a society is like without all the sexual innuendos every two seconds and to see that girls here dress appropriately and don't go out with men without their wali,etc. not to kill her. he honestly couldn't do that and i tend to think he wouldn't be able to kill a son who is opently and actively gay either but hopefully we'll never have to find out.

What makes you think that she will not date behind your backs in Egypt?

I'm just curious to know if you have thought of the effect moving her to Egypt could have on her. She is American and will grow up here from what you said... so what if she doesn't want to move to Egypt? This isn't even Usama's daughter right?

If my step dad told me that I had to move to Egypt so that I wouldn't date I wouldn't do it. I'd stay with my real dad.

[peezey 0]

Oh my, I'm wondering if some of these votes so far are fakes...

I would hope so- I would hate to think anyone would marry a man who could justify the murder of his own family.

this is what I'm hoping, too, I'm a little freaked by this thread.

[Reynaldo 0]

This is neither ME nor NA, but ... Honor Killings of Women in Albania Albania has a very strong honor code (The Kanun, it's called) which still holds a lot of sway in certain isolated parts of Albania and ethnic Albanian lands such as Kosovo.

For my husband, who is from the city and from a liberal family, the Kanun is this interesting historical document that shaped the culture of his country, but he doesn't think of it as a relavent guide for living nowadays. BUT one of the biggest insults one can say in Albania is "fukc your sister!" so there is still this idea that the women in the family bear all of the family's honor, especially the sisters/daughters.

lol, albania sounds like India. In northern india, 'kanun' means law. It is applied loosely to mean the actual laws and the code of honor. And we use 'bhenchod' as an insult too... means you fukc your sister. Another insult is "sala" which means "i fukc your sister".. "sala" by the way has a perfectly non-insulting use as well... my sisters husband will be my "sala".

Just to add some humor...

"Sala" means "living room" in Portuguese (maybe in Spanish too, i don't know)....

So, when someone says "sala" you know what they are doing and where they are doing it.

I wonder, our word for "tea" came from India, could our word for "living room" also be from there?

Edited January 4, 2007 by Reynaldo

[Alex+R 0]

This thread has scared the ####### out of me. Some of you are married to people who are ok with killing their daughters or gay sons. :o

Honestly maybe I was naive but I didn't really believe there were still people like that living in the US. I'm totally and completely shocked.

[sarah and hicham 3]

This thread has scared the ####### out of me. Some of you are married to people who are ok with killing their daughters or gay sons. :o

Honestly maybe I was naive but I didn't really believe there were still people like that living in the US. I'm totally and completely shocked.

I know, I was thinkign the same thing. Especially since I think that gay people don't choose to be gay and they just come out that way.

I am pretty amazed and dissapointed that some people are marrying men who think it is ok to kill their own sister/daughter.

[Karen_L 1]

This is neither ME nor NA, but ... Honor Killings of Women in Albania Albania has a very strong honor code (The Kanun, it's called) which still holds a lot of sway in certain isolated parts of Albania and ethnic Albanian lands such as Kosovo.

For my husband, who is from the city and from a liberal family, the Kanun is this interesting historical document that shaped the culture of his country, but he doesn't think of it as a relavent guide for living nowadays. BUT one of the biggest insults one can say in Albania is "fukc your sister!" so there is still this idea that the women in the family bear all of the family's honor, especially the sisters/daughters.

lol, albania sounds like India. In northern india, 'kanun' means law. It is applied loosely to mean the actual laws and the code of honor. And we use 'bhenchod' as an insult too... means you fukc your sister. Another insult is "sala" which means "i fukc your sister".. "sala" by the way has a perfectly non-insulting use as well... my sisters husband will be my "sala".

lol, that does seem pretty similar -- another interesting similarity is that in Albanian, to my understanding, every relationship within the family has its own word, unlike English, where the same word is used, aunt, for instance, for your father's sister, your mother's sister, your uncle's wife. In Albanian, all those relationships have their own word, and so one's Uncle is just the brothers of your father, not the brothers of your mother or the husbands of your aunts, etc. It defines a status within the family and Vendetta responsibilities under the Kanun, the highest status/biggest responsibilty are reserved for the men on your father's side.

I also think it's written in the Kanun that a father should give his daughter's new husband a single bullet so that if she turns out not to be a virgin, the husband can kill her and the father endorses it.

Edit to Add: My husband and I just discussed these things as cultural curiosities/issues; my mans is really put off by people who still follow these outdated and brutal laws and traditions.

Edited January 4, 2007 by Karen_L

[Jenn! 918]

This thread has scared the ####### out of me. Some of you are married to people who are ok with killing their daughters or gay sons. :o

Honestly maybe I was naive but I didn't really believe there were still people like that living in the US. I'm totally and completely shocked.

I'm hoping that they think their husbands are just all bark and no bite, and therefore it will be a non-issue. Still, IMO, that's an awful big gamble to take, and I know I couldn't handle it.

[sarah and hicham 3]

He wouldn't kill her but he would definitely push for her to move to Egypt.

on a side note he would totally kill his son if he were gay and actually sleeping with men. i know that wasn't part of the survey but thought i'd add a bit more flavor to it. :energetic:

So if you guys have a son and he turns out to be gay, Usama would kill him? That's great!

[Joey559 1]

It is also not uncommon to hear MENA men talking to other MENA men about how they would not think twice about commiting an honor killing if their wife/sister/daugter did such a thing. However if a MENA man were to say that he would not commit a honor killing, he would be considered a coward by other men. There is alot of pressure on them from their friends, families, and peers as well. They may agree to carry out an honor killing because if they don't, they could be killed for refusing to do it.

Not MENA but reading out of out right curosity. This is the sort of comment that honestly makes me shake my head. Not at J.P. but at the mentality she's describing. Parents should, and most I know would, lay down their own life to save their child's in an instant. Without a thought. SO I think in this culture, or at least the culture I was raised in, a man would be considered a coward if he killed his child to save his own life...