Honor Killings

[Nessa 23]

Anyway people, don't take Brazilian laws seriously, because we sure don't...

brazil has laws?

[jordanianprincess 0]

Well, with all dues respect, in your situation, an agnostic Muslim married to an atheist, one may see many exceptions.

Right, I can totally feel the respect in your statement.

I am not speaking of my own perspective, you spoke in absolutes, and there is just no such thing, anywhere.

SZSZ is right, shaming is almost always done in the Middle East and by Middle Eastern families in one form or another regardless of the subject.

She didn't say almost, that was my point.

I realize some of you here, as evidenced by a few of your statements, discount my experiences over the last 10 years with a Moroccan, because of my nontheism (I thought this had nothing to do with religion, szsz?), but having lived thee for months at a time, visited more than 10 times, I can confidently say that there are decent portions of Moroccan society who do not shame, kill, or otherwise ostracize family members for the things you are all talking about.

Given what I know about your husband and his family I am not suprised by your statements. I wouldn't expect his family to be that way really because of their status and where they are from. Morocco is probebly one of the counties least affected this as well unless you want to out into rural areas. Sarah to be honest, I think your husbands family is very westernized and that is not common in places like Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Syria,etc.

Where I am from, shaming is not only common but it is encouraged. Honor killings are not as common as they once were. In Jordan there are about 25-30 every year compared to the hundreds that used to take place when my grandparents were growing up. I find this discusting but what I find more discusting is the Government and Religious courts upholding it. That is my real issue.

To be quite honest its not uncommon for a man to "break free" of these beliefs. I see it all the time, in my own family. Not that it is a victory but people tend to change when they are exposed to different things, you can't always count on that but I give more credibility to someone like Moody that already has a full understanding of that process than someone who doesn't.

This might be true over time if there is support of a larger family, for instance in your case, but there have been comments made here and over the last several years hearing immigration stories that the men seem to become even more attached to their beliefs, religious, cultural, or otherwise, because they find solace and sameness in them in a society that is quite different than the one they came from.

That is true. There are no guarentees about anything in life.

[ya falaha! 0]

This does happen but not always. My ex came here when he was 19 yrs old with his nephew. The only family he had here was his nephew and a few cousins. Yes, he does gravitate towards Arabs (Yemenis in particular) more than Americans as far as making friends goes but like I said...he's been "Americanized" to a point. That he did on his own. I never attempted to make the man something he is not. Same for my current husband.

To be quite honest its not uncommon for a man to "break free" of these beliefs. I see it all the time, in my own family. Not that it is a victory but people tend to change when they are exposed to different things, you can't always count on that but I give more credibility to someone like Moody that already has a full understanding of that process than someone who doesn't.

This might be true over time if there is support of a larger family, for instance in your case, but there have been comments made here and over the last several years hearing immigration stories that the men seem to become even more attached to their beliefs, religious, cultural, or otherwise, because they find solace and sameness in them in a society that is quite different than the one they came from.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Well, with all dues respect, in your situation, an agnostic Muslim married to an atheist, one may see many exceptions.

Right, I can totally feel the respect in your statement.

I am not speaking of my own perspective, you spoke in absolutes, and there is just no such thing, anywhere.

SZSZ is right, shaming is almost always done in the Middle East and by Middle Eastern families in one form or another regardless of the subject.

She didn't say almost, that was my point.

I realize some of you here, as evidenced by a few of your statements, discount my experiences over the last 10 years with a Moroccan, because of my nontheism (I thought this had nothing to do with religion, szsz?), but having lived thee for months at a time, visited more than 10 times, I can confidently say that there are decent portions of Moroccan society who do not shame, kill, or otherwise ostracize family members for the things you are all talking about.

For some reason, peezy, you're getting defensive when there is no need to be. "Almost"is irrelvent as a mitigator because of the rarity of its absense. I will not so nit picky in my statements where it isn't needed.

I mentioned your situation because it is an exception rather than the rule. As such, things that should be common consideratons for amny of us will probably not arise for you.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Mrs. Forgetful 2]

Ok ya'll are typing way too fast! I was reading on page 14 went to page 15 and ya'll had already moved to 20! (probably 21 by time I post this)

Ok so, I remembered earlier today that someone, i can't remember who, told me that when they were younger and in Morocco either their friend used them to hang out with their boyfriend. One day the girl told her brother that she was hanging out with her and her brother followed the two girls. The one went of with the boy and her brother followed her and beat the heck out of the boy. He took the girl straight home to her parents. She doesn't know what happened to the girl because when she got home the girls parents had called her parents and they were forbidden to see, or talk to each other ever again.

I don't like that all the men think that they can go and kill the women in their families, yet when the men go and shame the family they are either shuned or forgiven.

And also, what if a woman has never had any kind of sexual relations, yet when she goes to bed for the first time with her husband, she doesn't bleed? Not all women bleed when they lose their virginity. I guess to be blunt and honest, some guys aren't big enough to make it happen.

[ya falaha! 0]

Hahaha...Janine you are too cute.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I anticipate my husband may very well get more "traditional" as the years go on, and this is something I thought about and decided I would be comfortable with. My family has experience in the Middle East, so when we were getting serious about marriage, they as well as their friends brought up potential issues, and they put me in touch with people who had been in long-term (some as long as 50+ years) marriages between Arab men/American women to discuss potential issues/expectations.

Question to all: Whom here believes they know all of their husbands cultural attitudes? It's been my experience that a man becomes more of what he was raised to be as he gets older. This is especially true of Muslim men who migrate to the US, into a secular culture. Can you really say you know it all as will apply to raising children? Seems as tho some did not consider this subject. What other important subjects have you not yet discussed?

[jordanianprincess 0]

Ok ya'll are typing way too fast! I was reading on page 14 went to page 15 and ya'll had already moved to 20! (probably 21 by time I post this)

Ok so, I remembered earlier today that someone, i can't remember who, told me that when they were younger and in Morocco either their friend used them to hang out with their boyfriend. One day the girl told her brother that she was hanging out with her and her brother followed the two girls. The one went of with the boy and her brother followed her and beat the heck out of the boy. He took the girl straight home to her parents. She doesn't know what happened to the girl because when she got home the girls parents had called her parents and they were forbidden to see, or talk to each other ever again.

I don't like that all the men think that they can go and kill the women in their families, yet when the men go and shame the family they are either shuned or forgiven.

And also, what if a woman has never had any kind of sexual relations, yet when she goes to bed for the first time with her husband, she doesn't bleed? Not all women bleed when they lose their virginity. I guess to be blunt and honest, some guys aren't big enough to make it happen.

I don't think it has anything to do with size. Many medical studies have shown that its not uncommon for a womans hymen to break before she loses her virginity. There are people that still check the sheet, but this practice is not as common as it once used to be. Bleeding can also happen afterwords in the form of spotting, everyone is different.

[Reynaldo 0]

And also, what if a woman has never had any kind of sexual relations, yet when she goes to bed for the first time with her husband, she doesn't bleed? Not all women bleed when they lose their virginity. I guess to be blunt and honest, some guys aren't big enough to make it happen.

Woa. That is chauvinistic, not based on any facts and it comes from a woman...

I am honestly amazed.

I am sorry if this sounds troll-y, but I am really shocked...

[peezey 0]

Well, with all dues respect, in your situation, an agnostic Muslim married to an atheist, one may see many exceptions.

Right, I can totally feel the respect in your statement.

I am not speaking of my own perspective, you spoke in absolutes, and there is just no such thing, anywhere.

SZSZ is right, shaming is almost always done in the Middle East and by Middle Eastern families in one form or another regardless of the subject.

She didn't say almost, that was my point.

I realize some of you here, as evidenced by a few of your statements, discount my experiences over the last 10 years with a Moroccan, because of my nontheism (I thought this had nothing to do with religion, szsz?), but having lived thee for months at a time, visited more than 10 times, I can confidently say that there are decent portions of Moroccan society who do not shame, kill, or otherwise ostracize family members for the things you are all talking about.

For some reason, peezy, you're getting defensive when there is no need to be. "Almost"is irrelvent as a mitigator because of the rarity of its absense. I will not so nit picky in my statements where it isn't needed.

I mentioned your situation because it is an exception rather than the rule. As such, things that should be common consideratons for amny of us will probably not arise for you.

I'm not defensive, I'm irritated that you find it acceptable to point out my religious ID, and then defend yourself for doing so, when it has been stated here on this thread religion has nothing to do with the subject.

[jordanianprincess 0]

And also, what if a woman has never had any kind of sexual relations, yet when she goes to bed for the first time with her husband, she doesn't bleed? Not all women bleed when they lose their virginity. I guess to be blunt and honest, some guys aren't big enough to make it happen.

Woa. That is chauvinistic, not based on any facts and it comes from a woman...

I am honestly amazed.

I am sorry if this sounds troll-y, but I am really shocked...

I was shocked at first too, but I think she is just trying to be funny.

[ya falaha! 0]

TMI alert...

I didn't bleed. I have a feeling it had something to do with tampons.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Well, with all dues respect, in your situation, an agnostic Muslim married to an atheist, one may see many exceptions.

Right, I can totally feel the respect in your statement.

I am not speaking of my own perspective, you spoke in absolutes, and there is just no such thing, anywhere.

SZSZ is right, shaming is almost always done in the Middle East and by Middle Eastern families in one form or another regardless of the subject.

She didn't say almost, that was my point.

I realize some of you here, as evidenced by a few of your statements, discount my experiences over the last 10 years with a Moroccan, because of my nontheism (I thought this had nothing to do with religion, szsz?), but having lived thee for months at a time, visited more than 10 times, I can confidently say that there are decent portions of Moroccan society who do not shame, kill, or otherwise ostracize family members for the things you are all talking about.

For some reason, peezy, you're getting defensive when there is no need to be. "Almost"is irrelvent as a mitigator because of the rarity of its absense. I will not so nit picky in my statements where it isn't needed.

I mentioned your situation because it is an exception rather than the rule. As such, things that should be common consideratons for amny of us will probably not arise for you.

I'm not defensive, I'm irritated that you find it acceptable to point out my religious ID, and then defend yourself for doing so, when it has been stated here on this thread religion has nothing to do with the subject.

Religion is not irrelevent to the subject, but I meant nothing disrespectful by mentioning your situation as a valid reason for your being an exception. If you're going to stay irritated, you'll have to do it alone. Remember, I'm not responsible for how you interpret what I said. I have explained myself and that should be enough.

[Reynaldo 0]

TMI alert...

I didn't bleed. I have a feeling it had something to do with tampons.

It is TMI indeed

It is just part of your physiology.

[Jenn! 918]

Seems as tho some did not consider this subject. What other important subjects have you not yet discussed?

Who are you speaking to? What makes you think that? Maybe you want to come out and tell us what these important subjects are...

I've discussed everything that is important to *me* and to *my husband* with him. Maybe we should also discuss the things that are important to *you*, so let's have 'em!