Honor Killings

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Its not an uncommon thing for me to hear people talking about this subject because its a subject that is close to home for me.

That, I knew from the first post.

Bottom line, ladies. If your husband has been raised in an atmosphere where honor killing and shaming is de rigor, even if never done, he can say no, but no doesn't always mean no. That's why I defended moody.

PS - Shaming is always done.

Always done what?

Shaming as a means of social control is a widespread cultural trait in the Arab world. Even if honor killing isn't practiced, shaming is.

[mybackpages 0]

Maybe the killing part goes a bit far but MENA men aren't gonna sit by and let the female members of their family dishonor them.

Maybe?????

ETA: Not going after you Moody- maybe it didn't come across the way you intended, but how can murder for adultry or premarital sex etc (not to mention the conviction is assumed without a fair trial) ever not be going too far?

Edited January 5, 2007 by mybackpages

[ya falaha! 0]

Oh shitt..I used the word maybe...ok definitely is that ok? I use the word maybe a lot. Sorry.

[Reynaldo 0]

I hate to differ with you, being that you are Brazilian, but it is cultural; part of the machoism that permeates all of Latin America. It's influence as a man's right has dissipated over the last two decades, but it was not only the resort of sick people. Such men were considered by their neighbors to be correct in what they did, and that thought still lingers in the judicial system.

I am talking about a judicial system that condemns "Idleness" as a crime.

[ya falaha! 0]

Take out the "maybe" then you'll get what I mean.

Maybe the killing part goes a bit far but MENA men aren't gonna sit by and let the female members of their family dishonor them.

Maybe?????

ETA: Not going after you Moody- maybe it didn't come across the way you intended, but how can murder for adultry or premarital sex etc (not to mention the conviction is assumed without a fair trial) ever not be going too far?

[mybackpages 0]

Oh shitt..I used the word maybe...ok definitely is that ok? I use the word maybe a lot. Sorry.

YAY Moody....you did scare me for a minute

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Question: Whom here believes they know all of their husbands cultural attitudes? It's been my experience that a man becomes more of what he was raised to be as he gets older. This is especially true of Muslim men who migrate to the US, into a secular culture. Can you really say you know it all as will apply to raising children? Seems as tho some did not consider this subject. What other important subjects have you not yet discussed?

[peezey 0]

Its not an uncommon thing for me to hear people talking about this subject because its a subject that is close to home for me.

That, I knew from the first post.

Bottom line, ladies. If your husband has been raised in an atmosphere where honor killing and shaming is de rigor, even if never done, he can say no, but no doesn't always mean no. That's why I defended moody.

PS - Shaming is always done.

Always done what?

Shaming as a means of social control is a widespread cultural trait in the Arab world. Even if honor killing isn't practiced, shaming is.

Nothing is always done.

[jordanianprincess 0]

I think for me the shocking thing about this thread remans that there are women who choose to marry men who hold such different views on basic values. It's easy to dismiss views on honor killings because the likelyhood that this will ever directly apply to them is minimum. BUT Bi-national marriages are hard enough with the added friction of holding such different core beliefs.

In the US a marriage is the union of two individuals, but for much of the rest of the world a marriage is the union of two families. I can never understand joining a family through marriage without knowing that at the basic core you belong in this family. I could never marry a man who held moral views so different from mine. If a SO was raised to hold certain racists ideas, how could I justify my willingness to build a family with him by dismissing these beliefs as just how he was raised. I wont accept any expression of violence or intolerance so why would I bring it into my home?

Let's say a woman, born and raised in the US, travels half way across the world to a small village in Middle Eastern Country. For now lets just put the honor killings issue aside, do you think they will have the same views on many things? I am not talking about you but in general, a man raised in a small village or city, who has never been outside of his country will most likely not accept 50% of the things we do here because its not normal for them. Do you think his willingness to accept things that are new to him after 10 years of being exposed to it would change?

Let's take another it in another direction. For us here in the US, most of us don't believe in color lines and racism. For the most part we believe everyone is equal and that you should date and marry who you love with no boundries. Now ask these same set of men if they are ok with their daughter dating or marrying a Black, Mexican, or Chinese man. Most of them will say no. Interracial marriage is normal for them and without saying we all know this is a double standard since there is no problem with a man doing it.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

ok

I hate to differ with you, being that you are Brazilian, but it is cultural; part of the machoism that permeates all of Latin America. It's influence as a man's right has dissipated over the last two decades, but it was not only the resort of sick people. Such men were considered by their neighbors to be correct in what they did, and that thought still lingers in the judicial system.

I am talking about a judicial system that condemns "Idleness" as a crime.

[ya falaha! 0]

I'm curious, peezey, what is your husband's take on honor killings or punishment for adultery regarding women in his family? Does he not find it dishonorable for his wife, child, sister, or mother to commit adultery? Even in the states it's considered shameful to a point.

Edited January 5, 2007 by moody

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

I hate to differ with you, being that you are Brazilian, but it is cultural; part of the machoism that permeates all of Latin America. It's influence as a man's right has dissipated over the last two decades, but it was not only the resort of sick people. Such men were considered by their neighbors to be correct in what they did, and that thought still lingers in the judicial system.

I am talking about a judicial system that condemns "Idleness" as a crime.

it is?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Its not an uncommon thing for

Shaming as a means of social control is a widespread cultural trait in the Arab world. Even if honor killing isn't practiced, shaming is.

Nothing is always done.

Well, with all dues respect, in your situation, an agnostic Muslim married to an atheist, one may see many exceptions.

I hate to differ with you, being that you are Brazilian, but it is cultural; part of the machoism that permeates all of Latin America. It's influence as a man's right has dissipated over the last two decades, but it was not only the resort of sick people. Such men were considered by their neighbors to be correct in what they did, and that thought still lingers in the judicial system.

I am talking about a judicial system that condemns "Idleness" as a crime.

it is?

Stay out of Brazil, Charlie!

[jordanianprincess 0]

I'm curious, peezey, what is your husband's take on honor killings or punishment for adultery regarding women in his family? Does he not find it dishonorable for his wife, child, sister, or mother to commit adultery? Even in the states it's considered shameful to a point.

Actually I don't think this is a problem in his family given the fact of where they are from. It does happen in Morocco but its not common in larger cities.

[Reynaldo 0]

I hate to differ with you, being that you are Brazilian, but it is cultural; part of the machoism that permeates all of Latin America. It's influence as a man's right has dissipated over the last two decades, but it was not only the resort of sick people. Such men were considered by their neighbors to be correct in what they did, and that thought still lingers in the judicial system.

I am talking about a judicial system that condemns "Idleness" as a crime.

it is?

Yes it is, and so is begging (for money on the street. Begging for forgiveness is not forbidden).

Article 59 on the "Lei das Contravenções Penais" which is the "book of lesser crimes"

Edited January 5, 2007 by Reynaldo