Honor Killings

[jordanianprincess 0]

I really don't think that anybody's arguing otherwise. I think everyone knows that the justifications exist and recognize *why* some people still condone honor killings. We're just saying that doesn't mean that honor killings should be accepted as just one of those things that happens. We know it happens, it is reality, but it's not ok.

Jenn I think we agree somewhat. I disagree that people here understand why it happens.

Why is knowing the facts about why it happens a complicated concept? It doesn't seem to me that anyone here has said they don't comprehend anything that's been posted here in terms of personal stories, articles, etc.

Because it simply not about personal stories and articles. Dismissing the reasons why people do this as an excuse and bogus is a perfect example of why I feel you don't understand it. I don't agree with it either, but I understand why a man would feel this way and I am not so quick to judge him about it because of that. Given the fact that there are so many women here married to men from these countries, there needs to be a better understanding of the issue.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Because it simply not about personal stories and articles. Dismissing the reasons why people do this as an excuse and bogus is a perfect example of why I feel you don't understand it. I don't agree with it either, but I understand why a man would feel this way and I am not so quick to judge him about it because of that. Given the fact that there are so many women here married to men from these countries, there needs to be a better understanding of the issue.

No kidding! Someone said this is not like hijab, and they're right. This is more important than hijab and deserves a rigorous examination.

[peezey 0]

Because it simply not about personal stories and articles. Dismissing the reasons why people do this as an excuse and bogus is a perfect example of why I feel you don't understand it. I don't agree with it either, but I understand why a man would feel this way and I am not so quick to judge him about it because of that. Given the fact that there are so many women here married to men from these countries, there needs to be a better understanding of the issue.

You are totally misunderstanding me. I am strictly talking about women who know this about their husbands, yet brush it off as a "difference of opinion." That is the excuse I am labeling as bogus.

ETA: Understand all they want about why their husbands might think this way, I still find it repulsive and inexcusable to agree to disagree on this issue.

Edited January 5, 2007 by peezey

[Reynaldo 0]

I'm not going to kill her, if that's what you're asking. This hasn't really been a problem in my family. Even the Christians in the family don't engage in premarital sex as part of their religious beliefs. Even the men.

What I think is that everyone has the right to decide what is best for them. Even if they are 16(14 in Brazil for girls, 13 for men. Estatistically) and not married.

[jordanianprincess 0]

Because it simply not about personal stories and articles. Dismissing the reasons why people do this as an excuse and bogus is a perfect example of why I feel you don't understand it. I don't agree with it either, but I understand why a man would feel this way and I am not so quick to judge him about it because of that. Given the fact that there are so many women here married to men from these countries, there needs to be a better understanding of the issue.

You are totally misunderstanding me. I am strictly talking about women who know this about their husbands, yet brush it off as a "difference of opinion." That is the excuse I am labeling as bogus.

So you are talking about Moody specifically? Because up until now she is the only person I recall to come forward about it. I honestly don't see her as brushing it off and this difference in opinion is far more common that anyone realizes.

[jordanianprincess 0]

I'm not going to kill her, if that's what you're asking. This hasn't really been a problem in my family. Even the Christians in the family don't engage in premarital sex as part of their religious beliefs. Even the men.

What I think is that everyone has the right to decide what is best for them. Even if they are 16(14 in Brazil for girls, 13 for men. Estatistically) and not married.

I fully disagree with this. There are definitly some people that are mature at 16 but for the most they do need alot of guidance. I know many teenagers who think they have the world figured out.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'm not going to kill her, if that's what you're asking. This hasn't really been a problem in my family. Even the Christians in the family don't engage in premarital sex as part of their religious beliefs. Even the men.

What I think is that everyone has the right to decide what is best for them. Even if they are 16(14 in Brazil for girls, 13 for men. Estatistically) and not married.

That, I think is a cultural thing. Brazilian culture is far more sexually free than any Arab culture. I will never be there, so my children, males and females, are still hearing from their mother and other relatives about their duties to the family. Frankly, I was so surprised when I first went there to see how free it was, yet you still had men killing women over issues of sexual exclusivity and lack of obedience. I know better now.

[peezey 0]

Because it simply not about personal stories and articles. Dismissing the reasons why people do this as an excuse and bogus is a perfect example of why I feel you don't understand it. I don't agree with it either, but I understand why a man would feel this way and I am not so quick to judge him about it because of that. Given the fact that there are so many women here married to men from these countries, there needs to be a better understanding of the issue.

You are totally misunderstanding me. I am strictly talking about women who know this about their husbands, yet brush it off as a "difference of opinion." That is the excuse I am labeling as bogus.

So you are talking about Moody specifically? Because up until now she is the only person I recall to come forward about it. I honestly don't see her as brushing it off and this difference in opinion is far more common that anyone realizes.

If you go back, there are a few women who have used the "cultural differences" as a way to explain their husband's feelings on this.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Bottom line, ladies. If your husband has been raised in an atmosphere where honor killing and shaming is de rigor, even if never done, he can say no, but no doesn't always mean no. That's why I defended moody.

PS - Shaming is always done.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Reynaldo 0]

That, I think is a cultural thing. Brazilian culture is far more sexually free than any Arab culture. I will never be there, so my children, males and females, are still hearing from their mother and other relatives about their duties to the family. Frankly, I was so surprised when I first went there to see how free it was, yet you still had men killing women over issues of sexual exclusivity and lack of obedience. I know better now.

The difference is, like i said earlier, Brazilian men do it not because of our culture, but because they know they wont get caught.

And what they do has nothing to do with any cultural aspects of our society. They are sick people that don't even deserve our respect.

[jordanianprincess 0]

Because it simply not about personal stories and articles. Dismissing the reasons why people do this as an excuse and bogus is a perfect example of why I feel you don't understand it. I don't agree with it either, but I understand why a man would feel this way and I am not so quick to judge him about it because of that. Given the fact that there are so many women here married to men from these countries, there needs to be a better understanding of the issue.

You are totally misunderstanding me. I am strictly talking about women who know this about their husbands, yet brush it off as a "difference of opinion." That is the excuse I am labeling as bogus.

So you are talking about Moody specifically? Because up until now she is the only person I recall to come forward about it. I honestly don't see her as brushing it off and this difference in opinion is far more common that anyone realizes.

If you go back, there are a few women who have used the "cultural differences" as a way to explain their husband's feelings on this.

Cultural differences is probebly an accurate way to describe it technically. I guess it's different for some people. I think Moody has a good understanding of Arab culture from what I can see. Not because of this but becasue of everything I have seen her say since we met. She has been previously married to an Arab and she lives in an area that has a large number of arabs in it.

My immediate family doesnt follow this custom however I am almost certain that we have some extended family that does, especially in Jordan. When I say follow, I mean they know of it and accept it as a custom and not that they have actually ever done it. No one in my close extended family has ever done this but they have all seen it growing up, they are numb to it and its a way of life for them. The fact that the government upholds it proves even further to them that behaivior is ok. The fact that the religious courts uphold it proves to them its ok. Everyone there is raised to believe premarital sex is not only wrong, but is one of the worst sins you can commit.

Its not an uncommon thing for me to hear people talking about this subject because its a subject that is close to home for me. Given that Moody's ex was from Yemen and her current husband is from Egypt, it's probebly not an uncommon thing for her to hear either. I realize that maybe some of us have had more time to absorb this information than others but sometimes I also have no other choice than to brush off this ridiculous statements.

[peezey 0]

Bottom line, ladies. If your husband has been raised in an atmosphere where honor killing and shaming is de rigor, even if never done, he can say no, but no doesn't always mean no. That's why I defended moody.

PS - Shaming is always done.

Always done what?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The difference is, like i said earlier, Brazilian men do it not because of our culture, but because they know they wont get caught.

And what they do has nothing to do with any cultural aspects of our society. They are sick people that don't even deserve our respect.

I hate to differ with you, being that you are Brazilian, but it is cultural; part of the machoism that permeates all of Latin America. It's influence as a man's right has dissipated over the last two decades, but it was not only the resort of sick people. Such men were considered by their neighbors to be correct in what they did, and that thought still lingers in the judicial system.

[mybackpages 0]

I think for me the shocking thing about this thread remans that there are women who choose to marry men who hold such different views on basic values. It's easy to dismiss views on honor killings because the likelyhood that this will ever directly apply to them is minimum. BUT Bi-national marriages are hard enough with the added friction of holding such different core beliefs.

In the US a marriage is the union of two individuals, but for much of the rest of the world a marriage is the union of two families. I can never understand joining a family through marriage without knowing that at the basic core you belong in this family. I could never marry a man who held moral views so different from mine. If a SO was raised to hold certain racists ideas, how could I justify my willingness to build a family with him by dismissing these beliefs as just how he was raised. I wont accept any expression of violence or intolerance so why would I bring it into my home?

[ya falaha! 0]

Exactly...I am not brushing it off. My husband has not spent a day outside of Egypt. This subject is common place for him not unusual and absurd. I don't expect the man to change his opinions just because he's married to an American now. My ex was brought up in much the same way as my husband yet because he's spent 15 yrs in the US has softened his approach on this subject. That's not to say the man wouldn't go balistic if his daughter (future), sister or wife commited adultery. I understand the reasoning why these men (and sometimes women) approve of this behavior. It's not called honor killing for nothing. Maybe the killing part goes a bit far but MENA men aren't gonna sit by and let the female members of their family dishonor them.

Because it simply not about personal stories and articles. Dismissing the reasons why people do this as an excuse and bogus is a perfect example of why I feel you don't understand it. I don't agree with it either, but I understand why a man would feel this way and I am not so quick to judge him about it because of that. Given the fact that there are so many women here married to men from these countries, there needs to be a better understanding of the issue.

You are totally misunderstanding me. I am strictly talking about women who know this about their husbands, yet brush it off as a "difference of opinion." That is the excuse I am labeling as bogus.

So you are talking about Moody specifically? Because up until now she is the only person I recall to come forward about it. I honestly don't see her as brushing it off and this difference in opinion is far more common that anyone realizes.