Detained by law enforcement

[MO-MO1974 7]

Since this was the first time this has happened, well, ever, I figured I'd post this here to let new immigrants know might happen to them here in the US with regards to interacting with law enforcement.

As part of my exercise routine I have taken to doing long walks (3-4-5 miles) around town. I was out and about today, walking around a place I've walked around plenty of times before, when I saw a Sheriff's Deputy cruiser go past me. I noticed it, and carried on walking. A couple of minutes later another Sheriff's Deputy cruiser came towards me in the opposite direction and drove past (it was probably the same one, but I'm not 100%). Again, I carry on walking. Finally, a different Sheriff's Deputy cruiser pulls up directly in front of me, and indicates I should stop. I then notice that the first Sheriff's Deputy has pulled up behind me, so I'm sandwiched between the two.

I stood there, stopped my podcast (I had a Bluetooth headset on) and waited. One of the officers approached me and said something like “What are you doing out here today”, to which I said something like “Walking”. He then said “Do you have ID on you?”, to which I replied, “Yes”. He said “Can I see it?”. At this point I asked him “Am I being detained?” and he replied “I'm just asking a question”. I repeated, “Am I being detained?” and added “Am I free to go?” He got a bit flustered at this point, and said “I need to talk to my colleague” (the other officer who had pulled up in front of me). The other officer, as he was walking away from me, told me to take my hands out of my pockets, which I did.

They talked for about a minute, before the officer who had been speaking to me came back and said something like “You aren't being detained, but we would like to see your ID”. I asked “So I'm free to go?” He said “Yes”, at which point I told him to enjoy his afternoon, turned around, started my podcast and continued to walk down the road.

In my mind I thought “Bullet = dodged” and that was that.

At the end of the street that I was on was a small bridge, at which I usually stop for a few minutes before turning around to head home. One of my shoelaces was loose, so I got to the bridge, stood to the side, untied both of my shoelaces and re-tied them. I finished this and took a look at my phone, saw I had a text and started to read it. At this point the two Sheriff's Deputy cruisers pulled up to the bridge, got out of their cars and approached me again. The second officer (the one I had not spoken with earlier) told me that now I was blocking a public highway, was being detained, and said I had to give him my ID. I took my ID out of my wallet, gave it to the first officer, put my wallet back in my jacket and then the second officer told me to put my hands on my head and turn around so he could pat me down for weapons. I complied, and of course he found nothing. When he was done I asked him if I could take my cellphone out of my pocket. He told me no, that because I was being detained I couldn't make any calls at this time. I replied that I was not going to make a call but was instead going to start recording. He said no, and that there was no need because I was currently being recorded by the dashcam from his car and also the mic on his jacket. I replied that I didn't doubt what he said but I wanted to make my own recording. He again said “No”.

So we're standing there and he starts asking me things like what I was doing out here. I told him that I was walking for exercise, and that I come around this area often. He said that this is a “high crime area” and that people don't observe the speed limit across the bridge all the time, and that I shouldn't stop on this bridge for my own safety. I asked him how long this was going to take, and he replied “Until he has run your ID for warrants”.

Since I was being so...annoying... I guess would be the word, he said something like “Given how you are acting, have you had any issues with law enforcement in the past to make you act this way?” I believe I responded something like “I am aware of my constitutional rights and know that I don't have to answer your questions unless I am being detained”. He seemed very non-commitable about this answer. They asked me how long I had lived in this town, and I replied. He asked me where I was from, and I replied “England”. They asked me why I had come to this country, and I replied “A girl”. They said “Are you still together?” and I informed them that my wife had died three years ago, and they said they were very sorry to hear that.

After another couple of minutes of me standing there looking like an idiot, the first officer came back, handed my ID back and told me that I was free to go. I put it back in my pocket, started up my podcast, wished them a good afternoon and walked back the way I had came.

To me it seemed like the "blocking a highway" claim they made on the second stop was a pretext to get my ID and run it, but I'm unfamiliar with the intricacies of Texas traffic law so maybe they had a legitimate reason to stop me, but it didn't seem like it.

Welcome to America.

As much as you are right to stand your ground based on your rights,you also have to know that sometimes,just doing what was asked saves a lot...what if you had been dealing with a rogue super racist cop.....believe me...your story will be totally different from what you have written and most likely will have a worse outcome....glad you came out unscathed but sometimes,its best to just let them be whatever they wanna be,you be co-operative and most times,they will just clam up and let u go...for I will tell you,the easiest way to get in serious trouble with a deficient cop is to show you are more intelligent than him

[f&c 50]

I can't figure out why they would stop him, my best guess is that it is Texas and "walking" is strange behavior (which sickens me), or that it was an area known to be a place where drug deals happen.

Either way, whatever they were thinking, it is not illegal to walk, and it was improper for them to ask for ID just because they wanted it. This is a federal law, recently upheld in the supreme court.

It seems Hypnos is following up on the matter, he mentions getting "redress," and it is very good he is doing so. I also hope he got the officers names and ID numbers. I know officers have quotas, but they should be looking for real crime instead bothering people on a walk. If they thought he was loitering or something (which isn't illegal on public property), they could have told him leave the area. There was no need to check his ID.

An officer can approach and talk to anyone and request ID, but a person has the right to refuse if probable cause or articulable reasonable suspicion is not present.

Quotas are technically illegal, but we do have "performance standards". I've even been in trouble for not writing enough tickets, because I refuse to play the game. I will say that more serious crime or a person wanted for one are often discovered through minor infractions and consensual encounters.

[fantonledzepp 159]

After this all went down I did investigate whether someone being detained in Texas needs to show ID (I had believed they did, which is why I gave it to him). The answer is that you only need to show ID in Texas when (i) you are driving, or (ii) have been arrested (being detained doesn't count).

Texas Penal Code, Title 8, Section 38.02: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.38.htm

"Sec. 38.02. FAILURE TO IDENTIFY. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information.

(b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:

(1) lawfully arrested the person;

(2) lawfully detained the person; or

(3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense."

Since I was only detained I was not under any obligation to give them ID (although it would have been an offence to give them a false ID); that is one of the points I am seeking redress on. I have also been wondering what exactly would have happened had I refused to give them ID. Some have told me they would have marked time for a few minutes before letting me go, others have said they would have arrested me on some bs charge, thus necessitating my need to show them ID. I guess I'll never know.

No, genius, being detained doesn't just mean "under arrest", it also means being detained for the purposes of issuing a summons or checking for warrants.

And the stupid deputy who didn't know how to tell you that you were being detained and went back to talk with his colleague... Sigh. Boggles my mind.

Edited February 23, 2014 by fantonledzepp

[ppihtr123 68]

2 sides to every story... Thanks for sharing your side.

[Boiler 46,130]

You have to bear in mind the Chav culture in the UK, US is different.

You might also want to bear in mind the Police are armed here.

[bluebird74 34]

If you were in fact detained, then Texas Penal Code, Title 8, Section 38.02 does apply.

[f&c 50]

No, genius, being detained doesn't just mean "under arrest", it also means being detained for the purposes of issuing a summons or checking for warrants.

And the stupid deputy who didn't know how to tell you that you were being detained and went back to talk with his colleague... Sigh. Boggles my mind.

Section b refers to lawful detention.

[Masheil 3]

You have to bear in mind the Chav culture in the UK, US is different.

You might also want to bear in mind the Police are armed here.

Boiler, best advise so far! Some things are just not worth flexing muscles over. Edited February 23, 2014 by anewday

[f&c 50]

For those who will just comply at will, thank you for making mine and my coworkers job easier. While I can appreciate people submitting to avoid a hassle, I think it goes against the ideals of the United States. Know your rights and enjoy your freedom. Many have died to preserve it.

[Jon in RC 6]

you have two choices. be smart: i.e. show respect and comply, or be a smart ###. in this country, where law enforcement is being shot at and the average education level of the beat cops is high school diploma. you got to make a decision which way you want to behave suits you best. You might go to your local video rental.store for a copy of Rambo in the VHS section for future reference. cheers.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Jon in RC

[Married4Life13 38]

You said it yourself...you were in a high crime area and you probably weren't familiar to the officers patrolling that area. Of course they will ask an out of place person who you are and what you are doing there. It's what officers do to prevent crimes. Your line of questions back and defensive attitude made it worse then it had to be.

[f&c 50]

you have two choices. be smart: i.e. show respect and comply, or be a smart ####. in this country, where law enforcement is being shot at and the average education level of the beat cops is high school diploma. you got to make a decision which way you want to behave suits you best. You might go to your local video rental.store for a copy of Rambo in the VHS section for future reference. cheers.

I forgot to put my red head band on before work this morning. haha

[Tradewind 6]

Good thing they didn't think you were clenching your butt cheeks.

No use clenching your butt cheeks after the gas has passed.

[Geode 3]

Don't forget that there are more horses rear ends in the world than there are horses. Must be some of them are able to pass what ever tests are required to be a texas cop. Sorry this happened to you.

[Hotter Otter 1,211]

Random but slightly related question... back in 2012 I was travelling through Texas on a road trip of the US with some fellow road trip buddies I'd made (all foreign- German, Irish, Japanese, Danish etc) and we were stopped by border patrol and ordered out of the vehicle and told to show our ID's. Obviously we complied, one of the border police even had his hand ready to draw his weapon! We were asked where we were headed and how long we were going to stay in the US. Had we done something similar to the OP would we have been in deep s**t or were we within our rights to do what the OP did?