Detained by law enforcement

[blessedchild 21]

Wow.......

[Hypnos 6,578]

I did feel it was interesting that neither officer asked me to consent to a search. I was expecting it, and had my "I do not consent to any searches" all fired up and ready to go, but they did not ask. To me that says they did not believe I had done something at that exact moment, but believed I had warrants for something previously. How exactly they could tell all of this just by looking at me is certainly an interesting question, but there you go.

What I have done so far:

(1) Contacted the ACLU of Texas. This will likely go nowhere because they only take on high-profile cases, and all I lost were ten minutes of my life, but I did my due diligence with it.

(2) Contacted the local newspaper. They have indicated they might be interested in doing something with it, even if it's just including it as a "Letter To The Editor".

(3) Spoken with a supervisor at the Sheriff's Department. I am waiting on a call back, hopefully sometime next week.

(4) Contacted the local Mayor's office. Again, I'm waiting on them to get back to me next week.

I unfortunately did not get the officers' names, however it should be simple to do so in their records of the encounter. The fact that they prevented me from recording it (the second time) is one of the more disturbing things about this, I think.

[NikLR 13,232]

FYI: I never stated that I agreed with the fact that the OP was stopped or detained. Simply walking should not be a reason that two officers with police cars should stop and ask for ID. I also have not said if I agree or disagree with the OP's decision to react in the manner that way he did. Also, what I may or may not have done has no reflection on what the OP should or should not have done or a person's rights to do this or that when interacting with officers of the law.

I have merely stated that a) it is federal law that a US LPR over the age of 18 must carry their green card on them at all time and b) federal law trumps state law.

I do have a question though: I think in some states you must have another person's permission to record them; is this in every state or just certain ones and does it apply in Texas?

Edited February 23, 2014 by NLR

[Hypnos 6,578]

That varies from state to state; Texas is a "one-party consent" state, in that one of the parties to a conversation must consent to the recording (some states require all parties to).

In any case, there are usually exemptions for recording public officials who are performing official duties, in that you usually do not require their consent to record them.

[NikLR 13,232]

That varies from state to state; Texas is a "one-party consent" state, in that one of the parties to a conversation must consent to the recording (some states require all parties to).

In any case, there are usually exemptions for recording public officials who are performing official duties, in that you usually do not require their consent to record them.

Thanks for the info!

[TBoneTX 46,151]

I watch the "Busted" video quarterly. It's a good refresher.

[r060106 109]

Either way, whatever they were thinking, it is not illegal to walk, and it was improper for them to ask for ID just because they wanted it. This is a federal law, recently upheld in the supreme court.

It seems Hypnos is following up on the matter, he mentions getting "redress," and it is very good he is doing so. I also hope he got the officers names and ID numbers. I know officers have quotas, but they should be looking for real crime instead bothering people on a walk. If they thought he was loitering or something (which isn't illegal on public property), they could have told him leave the area. There was no need to check his ID.

I completely agree with you. Quotas for the police are really quite disturbing to me. If someone's doing something illegal that is harming another person, then stop it. But if they're just going to stop people to stop them that's just wrong.

[lasko12 9]

After reading this story, I feel like I love California more than ever or at least the Silicon Valley where polices respect people and act more reasonably than Texas and other places I guess.

[lost_at_sea 995]

After reading this story, I feel like I love California more than ever or at least the Silicon Valley where polices respect people and act more reasonably than Texas and other places I guess.

Don't get too comfy, it happens in California too. http://boingboing.net/2014/02/14/san-francisco-police-beat-up-a.html

The first-person account is an interesting read: https://medium.com/p/9f53ef6a1c10/

Edited February 23, 2014 by lost_at_sea

[Nodir 10]

I respect American laws.

[lasko12 9]

Don't get too comfy, it happens in California too. http://boingboing.net/2014/02/14/san-francisco-police-beat-up-a.html

The first-person account is an interesting read: https://medium.com/p/9f53ef6a1c10/

haha I also said "at least the Silicon Valley"

[lost_at_sea 995]

haha I also said "at least the Silicon Valley"

True (although you can find stories for San Jose on a similar vein). You never visit SF?

[ManCharsey 254]

Ok Todd&Hanh..I don't think you get the point the issue hasn't got to do with the question being asked. It is the violation of his fundamental human rights that is in question. Remember our rights are the only things we have as a people, if that is taken away, it strips us of every power we have. The law says that unless you are under arrest, you do not have to consent to any searches or questions..so whether I agree to show my id or not is up to me. That is exactly what he did. Calling him dumb is an unintelligent thing to do on your part since you clearly show you don't understand American rights. You will realize that when the police eventually wanted to see his id by force, they this time effected a detention because according to them he was violating a statute (which was blocking a public highway), otherwise they wouldn't have been able to still force him to show his id. Geez..people please learn before insulting people for their actions!

Edited February 23, 2014 by ManCharsey

[bluebird74 34]

There are police officers and there are cops who get off on exuding power (power trip). I'd say, you came across the latter kind - especially when it was a Texas Sheriff Department I have never got into any trouble with the law, but I do have my share of stories about situations with cops who were trying to start something or just simply wanted to show off - one of which, ended up getting reprimanded by his superior, after I filed a complaint.

For future reference, keep in mind, some users who commented here - un-doubtfully trying to help, were unfortunately wrong. If you would like to keep out of trouble by overplaying "my constitutional rights" card, you might want to consider this:

There are 20+ States that have stop-and-identify laws, where if you do not comply, you will be arrested. Luckily for you, TX is not one of those States, but it may soon be. Regardless of your State’s law, keep in mind that police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion to believe you’re involved in illegal activity. Thing is, how can you tell if an officer asking for your ID has reasonable suspicion? Remember, police need only a reasonable suspicion to detain you. So one way to tell if they have reasonable suspicion is to determine if you’re free to go. You can do this by saying "Am I being detained, or am I free to go?" If the officer says you’re free to go, leave immediately and don’t answer any more questions. Since the enactment of the Patriot Act, things have changed for the worse when it comes to our constitutional rights. Keep this in mind and don't be cocky when dealing with police officers. Sometimes, it's better to take some from them and be on your way, then to open your mouth and get in trouble.

[f&c 50]

At the end of the street that I was on was a small bridge, at which I usually stop for a few minutes before turning around to head home. One of my shoelaces was loose, so I got to the bridge, stood to the side, untied both of my shoelaces and re-tied them. I finished this and took a look at my phone, saw I had a text and started to read it. At this point the two Sheriff's Deputy cruisers pulled up to the bridge, got out of their cars and approached me again. The second officer (the one I had not spoken with earlier) told me that now I was blocking a public highway, was being detained, and said I had to give him my ID. I took my ID out of my wallet, gave it to the first officer, put my wallet back in my jacket and then the second officer told me to put my hands on my head and turn around so he could pat me down for weapons. I complied, and of course he found nothing. When he was done I asked him if I could take my cellphone out of my pocket. He told me no, that because I was being detained I couldn't make any calls at this time. I replied that I was not going to make a call but was instead going to start recording. He said no, and that there was no need because I was currently being recorded by the dashcam from his car and also the mic on his jacket. I replied that I didn't doubt what he said but I wanted to make my own recording. He again said “No”.

I am a police officer and very cognizant of our Constitutional rights particularly the 4th and 14th Amendments. You handled yourself well, Hypnos. If a police officer inititiates a consensual encounter (tier 1 stop), you are not required to talk to that officer. Blocking a public highway gave them probable cause (pc) to detain you at which point you must honestly identify yourself. Keep in mind there many state laws and local ordinances on the books that officers will use strictly to establish pc or articulable reasonable suspicion (ars). For example, someone refused to talk to my officer buddy the other day. The person had a dog with him that was not on a leash. My city has an ordinance requiring dogs to be on leash. This gave my buddy authority to demand ID and investigate. The person had an arrest warrant and went to jail.

There are many methods officers will use to extract information and will usually find a way. People HAVE to know and understand their rights. As a police officer, I would not grant permission to an officer to search my car on a traffic stop. Most officers will not violate one's civil rights, but there are some who do not understand their jobs very well.