I was asked why does the Phils have a high incidence of scam. Agree or disagree?

[Hank_ 9,174]

B_J .... I agree with you on that for sure.

[Caryh 5,206]

I've seen a bit of all of this happening. I currently know a couple, she brought her child with her to the USA, and he seems to love the child. But the guy will not work, and she's bring in all the money. He's even got her paying his court ordered child support from a previous marriage. Recently, he moved the family over an hours drive away from the city where she works, so he no longer has to do cleanup work for the free rent they got at an apartment building, something she did half of, so she's now driving about three hours a day to support him. The place they're now living is a cabin with no water source. They have to carry all water in. I have a hard time believing she stays with him, she must truly love him, or is truly dedicated to her marriage. I think my wife, who is also a Filipina, would kick me to the curb if I decided she was going to support me when I'm totally able to work.

Just from my observations, and this definitely doesn't apply to your particular case, I've seen just as many instances, maybe more, of the USC being dishonest in the relationship.

I've seen men go to the Philippines and totally misrepresent who they are. I've seen them be incredibly generous, always willing to help the family and improve their living conditions, I've seen them tell outright lies - "yes, I'm able to have kids." I've seen them act like they would love to have her and her children live with him.

Then, once she's here in America, everything changes. Now he lets her know that he is on a very limited budget. Now he no longer cares about her family. Now he lets her know he can't have kids. Now he can't stand her kids and they are an unfair burden on him.

Plus, many times he doesn't work; but she is required to work and then he decides how the money is spent.

I know of situations where he has her sign a prenuptial agreement, which she of course signs, since she can't imagine this marriage failing. Then, once she's here, he also lets her know that she has no place in his will. But he also wants her to stay at home to cook and take care of the house. He clearly doesn't care about her or her future. But he still chose to marry her.

So, in a way, the question could almost be reversed - Why do so many American men marry, lie to, and use Filipinas?

As for the original questions: I have no idea; but I've noticed that in most situations where the USC was scammed, there were plenty of warning signs that, for some reason, were ignored. While I certainly don't blame the victim; maybe the USC has unrealistic expectations and has almost set himself up to be used. I'm not saying this is what happens in every situation - it's just my observations.

And again, I'm not saying that is what happened in your particular situation. I really hope everything works out for the best with you.

[Hank_ 9,174]

my wife supports me...... in everything I do

Edited February 24, 2014 by Hank_

[Caryh 5,206]

my wife supports me...... in everything I do

If my wife were athletic, I might say she supports me.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

So, in a way, the question could almost be reversed - Why do so many American men marry, lie to, and use Filipinas?

A) Coz they don't view the Filipina as a person...instead...they view the Filipina as a product. & they find themselves (for whatever reason led them to this state of mind) able to lure another human being into a trap. A trap designed to bring them depraved satisfaction even if it lasts only for a while.

B) Coz they find themselves flattered...the attention and affection paid as tribute = to what one might see fawned upon an idol. & living for a moment - this role of "Rock Star"...they are not able to confess the reality of their life.

C) Coz they cherish the love given and fear that their own shortcomings will end it. That if the Filipina would only come here and see...life is better than in the PI + Love will abound in infinite measure.

A+B+C = Coz...they seek a happiness they can't find within themselves.

Now...I, for 1..I am still weighing my own judgment of these kinda folk....I'm not quite sure if I should despise them...or pity them...either way...I'm doing it from a distance.

or...They are just a bunch of loser freaks in need of a swift kick to the crotch for being selfish & evil Azzholes....maybe that's it.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Crashed~N2~Me

[B_J 2,752]

I vote for the swift kick to the crotch.

[Hank_ 9,174]

Dang Crashed-N2-Me & B_J!! Have to agree with that one for sure....

[yailukmuu 26]

Caryh, that's a tragic story and from the palpable anger perhaps there is much unfairness on both sides.

A sad state of affairs, yet I have Fil-Am couple friends, and they are all together and seemingly happy. Perhaps the bad apples are just a minority that we hear about.

I suppose karma will rule in the and.

[rlogan 2,036]

In another thread a poster asked the question why so much scamming seems to occur from the Philippines and why the Philippines is considered a high risk country like Nigeria.

The poster had a baseless opinion. Intelligent people ask for evidence that something is true before running off "explaining" what has not even been established.

Go ahead now and demonstrate with any U.S. Department of State publication that Philippines is a high marriage fraud country. You won't be able to, because it does not exist.

Prove me wrong.

[kitthekat 1,317]

The poster had a baseless opinion. Intelligent people ask for evidence that something is true before running off "explaining" what has not even been established.

Go ahead now and demonstrate with any U.S. Department of State publication that Philippines is a high marriage fraud country. You won't be able to, because it does not exist.

Prove me wrong.

http://www.gao.gov/assets/650/647871.pdf Pg 20, Footnote 33

With global access to the Internet, fraud scams used in one country or continent have

quickly made their way to others, and therefore high-fraud countries and

posts have shifted from year to year. For example, only 4 countries were

among the top 10 countries for visa fraud in both 2005 and 2010: the

Dominican Republic, Ghana, Jamaica, and Peru.

The other six countries among State’s 2005 Fraud Ranking included: Bangladesh, El

Salvador, Haiti, Honduras, Nigeria, and the Philippines.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

Nice grab which appears to support Rlogan's argument. A) Page 16 & B) Page 19 of same report states =

A) "State’s Office of Fraud Prevention Programs reports that a majority of visa fraud involves nonimmigrant visa applicants who submit false documents or make false statements to obtain a tourist or business visitor visa."

　

B) Immigrant Visas: In 2010, State issued 482,052 immigrant visas. That same year, 21,013 immigrant visa applications were referred to Fraud Prevention Units and 4,984 (or about 24 percent) were confirmed as fraudulent. Immigrant visa fraud can take many forms. At several posts we visited, State officials said a common problem involved applicants who pay American citizens to marry them or who falsely represent their intentions to citizens and deceive them into marriage in order to obtain lawful permanent residence in the United States. In a typical immigrant visa fraud case, an individual divorces his or her spouse in a foreign country, marries an American citizen, and, after living in the United States for a certain period of time, obtains U.S. citizenship or legal permanent resident status, divorces the U.S. spouse, and remarries the original spouse so that they can reunite in the United States.

(Since PI does not allow divorce...not saying there isn't a way around it but a logical argument = PI citizens numbers amongst the (little bit more than) 1% Worldwide Immigrant Visa Fraud for 2010 is probably pretty low. I wonder how many marriage based Visas were issued to PICs in 2010...)

Seems Rlogan = Game Point 1.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Crashed~N2~Me

[Darnell 8,478]

Many excellent posts, thank you all. I especially liked the one above.

I would suggest that

The OverSeas Foreign Worker paradigm in the PI

has been extended by some family-visa folks.

You not mentioned OFW in post #1 - I suggest you not discount it, as remittances INTO the PI from OFW is big business.

So, with an extension of that paradigm by holders of family-visas, money flows back to the PI. I'm not saying all folk do this, but it's a lot of pressure from the family back in the PI .

[Caryh 5,206]

http://www.gao.gov/assets/650/647871.pdf Pg 20, Footnote 33

With global access to the Internet, fraud scams used in one country or continent have

quickly made their way to others, and therefore high-fraud countries and

posts have shifted from year to year. For example, only 4 countries were

among the top 10 countries for visa fraud in both 2005 and 2010: the

Dominican Republic, Ghana, Jamaica, and Peru.

The other six countries among State’s 2005 Fraud Ranking included: Bangladesh, El

Salvador, Haiti, Honduras, Nigeria, and the Philippines.

The report also notes below - So

"What GAO Found

Certain countries and visa categories are subject to higher levels of fraud. In fiscal year 2010, almost 60 percent of confirmed fraud cases (9,200 out of 16,000) involved applicants from Brazil, China, Dominican Republic, India, and Mexico. Department of State (State) officials told GAO that fraud most commonly involves applicants for temporary visits to the United States who submit false documentation to overcome the presumption that they intend to illegally immigrate. Fraud is also perpetrated for immigrant visas and nonimmigrant visa categories such as temporary worker visas and student visas."

Edited February 27, 2014 by Caryh

[Hank_ 9,174]

And of course there is the statement right on the USEM website, (but then maybe this warning is on all embassy websites):

FRAUD NOTICE / WARNING

• Committing visa fraud or providing false information on your petition, visa application or to a Consular Officer may result in the revocation of your petition and/or a permanent ineligibility to travel, work or immigrate to the United States.
  
  U.S. Embassy Manila does not endorse or have a "special relationship" with any individual or business that offers advice or assistance with the visa process. No one can guarantee the issuance of a visa to you. Visa eligibility can only be determined at the time of the visa interview. All U.S. government forms are free.
  
  Beware: many visa applicants lose money or are permanently barred from the United States as a result of misleading information and fraudulent applications provided by visa consultants.

[kitthekat 1,317]

Nice grab which appears to support Rlogan's argument. A) Page 16 & B) Page 19 of same report states =

A) "State’s Office of Fraud Prevention Programs reports that a majority of visa fraud involves nonimmigrant visa applicants who submit false documents or make false statements to obtain a tourist or business visitor visa."

　

B) Immigrant Visas: In 2010, State issued 482,052 immigrant visas. That same year, 21,013 immigrant visa applications were referred to Fraud Prevention Units and 4,984 (or about 24 percent) were confirmed as fraudulent. Immigrant visa fraud can take many forms. At several posts we visited, State officials said a common problem involved applicants who pay American citizens to marry them or who falsely represent their intentions to citizens and deceive them into marriage in order to obtain lawful permanent residence in the United States. In a typical immigrant visa fraud case, an individual divorces his or her spouse in a foreign country, marries an American citizen, and, after living in the United States for a certain period of time, obtains U.S. citizenship or legal permanent resident status, divorces the U.S. spouse, and remarries the original spouse so that they can reunite in the United States.

(Since PI does not allow divorce...not saying there isn't a way around it but a logical argument = PI citizens numbers amongst the (little bit more than) 1% Worldwide Immigrant Visa Fraud for 2010 is probably pretty low. I wonder how many marriage based Visas were issued to PICs in 2010...)

Seems Rlogan = Game Point 1.

actually, his only claim was that there is no government publication that lists the PI as high fraud...as written in black and white in the linked report, they were in the top 10 in 2005.

your argument contains a fallacy known as "circular reasoning", basically where the premise of the argument rests on an assumption (usually unproven/inaccurate). as you pointed out yourself, there is a way around obtaining divorce, involving the foreign spouse initiating divorce.

when you measure high-fraud, you are not dealing solely in numbers, but also in percentage. 300 is a small number, but 300 out of 400 is 75%.