I was asked why does the Phils have a high incidence of scam. Agree or disagree?

[yailukmuu 26]

In another thread a poster asked the question why so much scamming seems to occur from the Philippines and why the Philippines is considered a high risk country like Nigeria.

It’s a good question and I’d like to share my views and wonder what others think.

I’m placing it here in the hopes that it allows people to understand why, and just might be useful in detecting scam before it happens, as it did to me.

The reason is that Philippine workers are the world’s slaves. It is just that simple.

Think that’s a stupid statement—many will. But hear me out:

The International Labor Organization (link below) shows that in 2010 the hourly direct manufacturing pay in the Philippines is $1.41(US)/hour. The next lowest country listed is Hungary at $4.74/hour. USA is $23.32, Australia is $28.55(US$) and Denmark is $34.87. Thus:

The Philippine worker makes about 1/3 of the next lowest paid country where manufacturing exists which is Hungary.

The Philippine worker makes ~1/20^th, or 5% of what is paid in Australia.

The Philippine worker makes 1/25^th or 4% of what the average factory worker earns in Denmark.

In Denmark a factory worker on average earns in two hours, what a Filipino does in an entire week.

And the Philippine worker often works 48 or more hours/week, unlike the others.

There is no other word for it. It’s modern day slavery.

Data from: http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---dgreports/---dcomm/---publ/documents/publication/wcms_194843.pdf

Now please consider that the unemployment rate in the Philippines is currently at 7.3%. Well, at least people have jobs eh? No—It is rubbish data, just as America’s unemployment data is rubbish.

Consider this: I am currently without a job and receive no unemployment benefits. In America statistically I am employed. The word rubbish fits in both countries.

Consider that millions, if not tens of millions in the Philippines do sustenance farming, so millions in the Provinces are not counted. Consider that at age 30 in the Philippines a woman’s employment is often terminated because she is old. It is that simple.

Add to this scenario and odd culture where daughters are expected to support the family, not sons and believe me this is a huge expectation.

What do you end up with in this scenario, in a word: desperation?

Note, this is a generalization and most Filipinas are NOT scammers. Often they are good people with good hearts and good intentions and just like you or I, tend to gravitate towards where there is opportunity.

This is likely why my wife left me, probably coached, perhaps pressured by her elder sister, an illegal in Arizona who as I see it is earning about $42,000, possibly tax free (under-the-table) a year, a woman who perhaps chose an elderly (read soon to die) Norwegian man to cover her basic needs such as housing so all her earnings could be exported back to Cebu to buy houses and lant. (Note: My wife told me that her illegal alien sister earned $24/hour as a health worker, do the math.)

This is also probably why the elder sister’s sister, half-sister to my wife married an elderly diabetic man and managed to pop out 4 babies before he died. Poor widow? Not. Consider this: USA social security benefits for a child are probably in the $850/month range, 4x850= $3,400 per month. Clear your mind a bit: This woman makes monthly what Sixteen Filipino factory workers earn per month.. And please note: I am not necessarily saying: "scammer," in this case for I cannot judge her quality of love for her deceased husband. But the scenario puts things into perspective.

A bit of indiscretion for uh, what is perceived “unfair immigration laws,” and whammo—the person is set for life.

What amazes me is that there is not much more.

As a side note: There is, a paper that I read recently that estimates that 90% of VAWA claims are fraudulent. In 2002, that means there were about 20/day that were fraudulent. In 2006, the number had risen to ~40/day. Therefore false VAWA (Violence Against Women Act) claims likely exceed 100/day. Assuming that there are many who only care to “get here,” and who do not allege VOWA, so maybe there are 200 people actively engaging in immigration fraud every day. That’s ~70,000 per year.

Why don’t we hear more about it? The effects are devastating emotionally and economically. Severely hurt people tend to crawl into a hole—they don’t talk about it for fear of embarrassment.

Now do you wonder why this occurs in the Philippines (and Nigeria whose average income is about the same?) The only lower paid countries in the world are Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Niger, Tanzania, and they are not economically as preyed upon because they can't speak English.

Please feel free to voice opposing views.

[christeen 966]

From my years here, I am just amazed at the leniency in many Phil/Am cases... Cases that in other high fraud countries would never get approved... I just have to figure the economic value of these immigrants must outweigh the fraud. From years on cruise ships and military before that, I have great respect for the strong work ethics (and talent) of the Phillipine people and perhaps it is this hard working reputation that the US govt overlooks some, lets say, interesting couplings. The acceptability of marriage as a means to support the family is most certainly a driving factor.

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

Well, you are not accounting for the increased living expenses in America that would limit what people could send back home.

Also, comparison to Denmark is not as logical as it would sound. Much of a Danish worker's salary is taken by taxes and then another 25% tax on all goods, including food. There is about a 100% tax on cars in Denmark. There are very very few Danish men - Filipina marriages for a variety of reasons, but it is that is another matter.

Obviously there are scammers from every country, but I haven't seen more Filipina/os on here being accused of it than anyone else. Maybe sometimes they aren't marrying for love, but that is true for quite a lot of couples.

Edited February 22, 2014 by N-o-l-a

[aaron2020 11,651]

Interesting.

It's not accurate to say the PI manufacturing job pays $1.41/hr and the next closet is Hungry at $4.74/hr.

What about Vietnam, Thailand, or Pakistan? Do you think these workers get more than $4.74/hr?

The data you have probably ignore a lot of countries.

Lots of fraud from Vietnam and other poor counties. Poverty and high immigration fraud kinda goes hand in hand.

[yailukmuu 26]

From my years here, I am just amazed at the leniency in many Phil/Am cases... Cases that in other high fraud countries would never get approved... I just have to figure the economic value of these immigrants must outweigh the fraud. From years on cruise ships and military before that, I have great respect for the strong work ethics (and talent) of the Phillipine people and perhaps it is this hard working reputation that the US govt overlooks some, lets say, interesting couplings. The acceptability of marriage as a means to support the family is most certainly a driving factor.

Perhaps it’s because we Americans owe the Republic of Philippines a debt of gratitude.

Filipino soldiers were WWI veterans. During World War II over 7,000 Filipinos fought for the USA in the 1^st and 2^nd Filipino Infantry Regiments, the 1^st Reconnaissance Battalion as well as Navy and Merchant Marine personnel, the latter sent to liberate the Philippines. In addition the Filipinos, as American Allies fought in the Vietnam War, as well as the recent Middle East “conflicts.”

Five percent of the entire Philippine population was killed during WWII. The Filipino people were integral to our retaking the Philippines.

Nigeria too had soldiers fighting in WWII but mostly for the British.

The Philippines (excepting early Fil-Am history) have been strong allies of the USA excepting the Philippine-American War (1899-1913) which lasted three years and resulted in the death of over 4,200 American and over 20,000 Filipino combatants. As many as 200,000 Filipino civilians died from violence, famine, and disease. In 1907 things started to change. The first elected assembly was in 1916, the Philippines became an autonomous commonwealth in 1935 and was granted independence from the US in 1946.

[yailukmuu 26]

Interesting.

It's not accurate to say the PI manufacturing job pays $1.41/hr and the next closet is Hungry at $4.74/hr.

What about Vietnam, Thailand, or Pakistan? Do you think these workers get more than $4.74/hr?

The data you have probably ignore a lot of countries.

Lots of fraud from Vietnam and other poor counties. Poverty and high immigration fraud kinda goes hand in hand.

I'll accept that statement aaron. Pakistan has sewing/clothing industry and Thailand has industry such as Nikon and hard drive manufacturers. And no I suspect that Bangkok manufacturing wages are about the same an Philppine factory wages. (~$250/month). Vietnam and Pakistan I would guess are even lower. It is odd that the ILO data ignores Thailand.

And I agree, poverty and immigration fraud does go hand in hand.

Here's ILO's list

Upper–middle-income (27 countries) Criteria: US$3,976–12,275 income per capita

Algeria, Argentina, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Botswana, Brazil, Bulgaria, Chile, China, Colombia, Costa

Rica, Iran, Jordan, Latvia, Lithuania, Mauritius, Mexico, Namibia, Panama, Peru, Russia, South

Africa, South Korea, Thailand, Tunisia, Turkey, Venezuela

Lower–middle-income (9 countries) Criteria: US$1,006–3,975 income per capita

Armenia, Côte d’Ivoire, Egypt, India, Moldova, Mongolia, Nigeria, Philippines, Sri Lanka

Low-income (4 countries)

Criteria: US$1,005 or below income per capita

Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Niger, Tanzania

Edited February 22, 2014 by yailukmuu

[Scott & Kaye 32]

The US will continue their relationship with the Philippines for many reasons. But the main one is to have a forward military presence to keep an eye on China and to police the South China sea.

"After the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, US-Philippines cooperation entered a new phase, with US forces sent to help the Philippines military combat a Muslim insurgency in the south with ties to al-Qaeda.

Then the Philippines became alarmed by a newly resurgent China, and got involved in a dispute with Beijing over who has sovereignty over various islets in the South China Sea. This coincided with President Barack Obama's "pivot to Asia" policy, and as of June, 2012, the US has been granted permission to use military bases in the Philippines once again, and a semi-permanent presence is envisaged.

So the US is back in the Philippines, but this time as an ally and guest rather than as a colonial power. It's for that friendship, as well as common humanity, that the US is now providing much-needed assistance to the victims of Typhoon Haiyan."

http://www.pri.org/stories/2013-11-12/heres-backstory-why-us-has-such-close-ties-Philippines

Has anyone heard of on going dispute over the Spratly Islands?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EcH8WeHbMI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy2ZrFphSmc

[Teripid 5]

They're in many ways the ultimate service economy. Delivery for everything, everywhere. Tons of small or cottage industry, food stalls and sari-sari shops. Construction consists of 20 guys with hammers to break something down instead of one guy with heavy construction equipment. Not sure what their overall manufacturing job % is compared to other industries.

The big emerging industry there is actually BPO, call center and the like so "manufacturing wage rate" is not exactly the indicator I'd look at. Wages there are actually seeing some improvement, especially in urban areas but they're still low.
There's a lot of legal discrimination based on age/height not directly related to the job needs. When I did interviews there, every single resume would list age, marital status, height, religion and a bunch of other stuff US HR isn't allowed to touch with a 10 foot pole. Internationals are much less likely to do this but it didn't feel like there were any controls against it.

[Hank_ 9,174]

Big stick is an aircraft carrier group. Don't need land to be a major threat.

The latest "friendliness" is because of China pressuring the Philippines.

[n and m 10]

Philippines is poor, workers are paid low, there's no doubt about that. Just don't compare Philippine wage earners to rich countries like US, Denmark, Australia because we will look like beggars. And I believed Philippine workers are paid much better than other poor countries. There are many Filipinos who are in high paying jobs too, so you cannot really generalized. Education in the Philippine is a guarantee that you can get a good and much better jobs than those who didn't finish college or a degree and most often than not, these are the Filipinos who ended in whatever kind of jobs just to support themselves..

I agree there are high scamming incidence in Philippines as some Filipinas looked at marrying foreigners as a way to escape the hardships and sees it as an opportunity to better lives. However, economic condition in the Philippines is not the sole factors why scammers are rampant, there are others factors to consider too especially if we let ourselves being scammed. Many of us here just met or wives/husband in dating sites. Many things happened in the dating site. Some are true, some are not. Before you petition her, have you ever asked yourself if the woman you are petitioning with is the right person, did you ever know who really she was, her background, the kind of job shes into, kinds of her friends she has and families she got and most of all if the age gap is appropriate ?.Was there a time you felt like she's using you, asking you money unreasonably including her family? These are some factors to consider...I didn't say, its not good to send money but its not proper at all if she'll solely depend on you, if money is gone, love will be gone too. This is common scene in the Philippines, a very matured foreigner men with a very young Filipina (couple).

All I can say is we need to be realistic in our search so we can protect ourselves from being scammed.

[ppihtr123 68]

So many variables...

It would be interesting to do a study of all K-1/CR-1/IR-1s to see how many are still together 5 or 10 after.

There are scammers from every country. There is a number from PI and every other country. What we don't know is what percentage vs. volume.

I guess what I am poking at is although everyone agrees that Nigeria is high fraud but is that just a reputation created by other Nigerian scams on the internet?

There are also 2 sides to every story and I am sure sometimes, the petitioner "stretches" what real life actually is like while trying to reel in their fish and then scream foul when the fish has large teeth!

Edited February 23, 2014 by ppihtr123

[Sthica09 1]

Good web site showing countries minimum wages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country

[yailukmuu 26]

There are also 2 sides to every story and I am sure sometimes, the petitioner "stretches" what real life actually is like while trying to reel in their fish and then scream foul when the fish has large teeth!

Many excellent posts, thank you all. I especially liked the one above.

[Hank_ 9,174]

- couples still together 5-10 years down the road? Heck you can do that one with couples within the USA (don't even need to look at USA/Philippine couples) and get some dramatic (negative) results. But I would tend to believe over all there would be fewer divorces with the USA/Philippine marriages.

[B_J 2,752]

Just from my observations, and this definitely doesn't apply to your particular case, I've seen just as many instances, maybe more, of the USC being dishonest in the relationship.

I've seen men go to the Philippines and totally misrepresent who they are. I've seen them be incredibly generous, always willing to help the family and improve their living conditions, I've seen them tell outright lies - "yes, I'm able to have kids." I've seen them act like they would love to have her and her children live with him.

Then, once she's here in America, everything changes. Now he lets her know that he is on a very limited budget. Now he no longer cares about her family. Now he lets her know he can't have kids. Now he can't stand her kids and they are an unfair burden on him.

Plus, many times he doesn't work; but she is required to work and then he decides how the money is spent.

I know of situations where he has her sign a prenuptial agreement, which she of course signs, since she can't imagine this marriage failing. Then, once she's here, he also lets her know that she has no place in his will. But he also wants her to stay at home to cook and take care of the house. He clearly doesn't care about her or her future. But he still chose to marry her.

So, in a way, the question could almost be reversed - Why do so many American men marry, lie to, and use Filipinas?

As for the original questions: I have no idea; but I've noticed that in most situations where the USC was scammed, there were plenty of warning signs that, for some reason, were ignored. While I certainly don't blame the victim; maybe the USC has unrealistic expectations and has almost set himself up to be used. I'm not saying this is what happens in every situation - it's just my observations.

And again, I'm not saying that is what happened in your particular situation. I really hope everything works out for the best with you.