Fury amongst gay rights groups as Arizona passes bill allowing people to refuse service to anyone under religious beliefs

[Karee 4,191]

Yep - got a request to remove it today, but didn't do it fast enough I guess, so they removed it for me.

Insanity.

You gotta be kidding me. I'm getting the feeling that some right wing religious sect is taking over this site. Pretty soon we wont be able to discuss K-1 visas, because that implies sex before marriage. This will be a strictly IR-1/CR-1 website, the way Joseph Smith and Brigham Young would want it. Discussion of multiple 14 year old wives will be encouraged.

I'm surprised they haven't removed my avatar. Some might think it condones sexual harassment, or maybe even domestic violence.

[Pooky 3,840]

I'm sure.

Sure looks like it.

[sharky-rex 76]

Come to think of it, now that marriage based immigration benefits are available to married same sex couples, is there a sub-forum for the same sex families going through the process here? I'd imagine that those couples face some issues that are unique to them since this benefit became available to them just recently. Or do we limit dedicated sub-forums to groups such as our family friendly hetero sexual divorcees?

It's been discussed and denied because "the process is the same for everyone". There are several few-dozen pages long threads scattered around the forum, but the important stuff is easy to miss. Like for K1, where you have to specify where you intend to get married if you don't live in an equal-rights state. I wish it were at least added to the guides or pinned somewhere in the K1 sub-forum. Think they might let us have a sub-forum for family-friendly same-sex divorces? We could sneak it in there.

[Karee 4,191]

Come to think of it, now that marriage based immigration benefits are available to married same sex couples, is there a sub-forum for the same sex families going through the process here? I'd imagine that those couples face some issues that are unique to them since this benefit became available to them just recently. Or do we limit dedicated sub-forums to groups such as our family friendly hetero sexual divorcees?

Funny you bring that up. I suggested that very thing (with good intentions) when the govt. started allowing same sex couples to apply for immigration benefits. I was swiftly shot down as someone who didn't believe in equality for same sex couples simply because I thought it would be a good idea to have a separate forum for those couples going through the process. As I correctly pointed out, the vast majority of countries in this imperfect world we live in, do not recognize same sex marriage. That in itself makes the process different. For example, if the beneficiary comes from a country that doesn't recognize same sex marriage, a CR-1/IR-1 visa is out of the question because they cant get married. Also, most of the countries that DO recognize same sex marriage are very difficult to get tourist visas for citizens of countries that do not.

Just because the U.S. recognizes same-sex marriage, does not mean the rest of the world automatically does, although a good percentage of the people I know here in Texas think the world ends at the county line.

You can read about it here:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/446015-same-sex-marriage-forum/

No good deed goes unpunished.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Karee

[Pooky 3,840]

It's been discussed and denied because "the process is the same for everyone". There are several few-dozen pages long threads scattered around the forum, but the important stuff is easy to miss. Like for K1, where you have to specify where you intend to get married if you don't live in an equal-rights state. I wish it were at least added to the guides or pinned somewhere in the K1 sub-forum. Think they might let us have a sub-forum for family-friendly same-sex divorces? We could sneak it in there.

For information like this, go to the Site Related Discussion forum and post it there. It's more likely to get noticed by the Site Admin there.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It's been discussed and denied because "the process is the same for everyone". There are several few-dozen pages long threads scattered around the forum, but the important stuff is easy to miss. Like for K1, where you have to specify where you intend to get married if you don't live in an equal-rights state. I wish it were at least added to the guides or pinned somewhere in the K1 sub-forum. Think they might let us have a sub-forum for family-friendly same-sex divorces? We could sneak it in there.

That's ridiculous. Obviously the process isn't the same for everyone when not everyone can get married everywhere. My seven year old daughter could easily grasp that simple reality. One would think that the site admin would be capable of grasping that, too.

[Karee 4,191]

For information like this, go to the Site Related Discussion forum and post it there. It's more likely to get noticed by the Site Admin there.

Good luck with that.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

There is no "one size fits all" for immigration There are special requirements for other opposite-sex couples too, like first cousins. The whole reason K-1 was invented was because some people can't marry in the foreigner's country, either it takes too long, or the country doesn't allow their type of marriage (like an interfaith marriage). All of the "issues" with SS applications already exist in opposite-sex immigration law and practice. I can't think of a single thing that is unique to SS couples.

Separating SS couples from this discussion is a disservice, imo. There are all sorts of couples.

But this thread is how Arizona is a horrible state. Let's stick to that

Edited February 23, 2014 by Harpa Timsah

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Funny you bring that up. I suggested that very thing (with good intentions) when the govt. started allowing same sex couples to apply for immigration benefits. I was swiftly shot down as someone who didn't believe in equality for same sex couples simply because I thought it would be a good idea to have a separate forum for those couples going through the process. As I correctly pointed out, the vast majority of countries in this imperfect world we live in, do not recognize same sex marriage. That in itself makes the process different. For example, if the beneficiary comes from a country that doesn't recognize same sex marriage, a CR-1/IR-1 visa is out of the question because they cant get married. Also, most of the countries that DO recognize same sex marriage are very difficult to get tourist visas for citizens of countries that do not.

Just because the U.S. recognizes same-sex marriage, does not mean the rest of the world automatically does, although a good percentage of the people I know here in Texas think the world ends at the county line.

You can read about it here:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/446015-same-sex-marriage-forum/

No good deed goes unpunished.

Oh boy. Only on VJ...

You tried and fwiw, I agree with you.

[Karee 4,191]

There is no "one size fits all" for immigration There are special requirements for other opposite-sex couples too, like first cousins. The whole reason K-1 was invented was because some people can't marry in the foreigner's country, either it takes too long, or the country doesn't allow their type of marriage (like an interfaith marriage). All of the "issues" with SS applications already exist in opposite-sex immigration law and practice. I can't think of a single thing that is unique to SS couples.

Separating SS couples from this discussion is a disservice, imo. There are all sorts of couples.

Yet a same-sex couple above thought it would be helpful. If we follow your logic, we should do away with the regional forums as well. I mean it's basically the same for all countries, right?

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Yet a same-sex couple above thought it would be helpful. If we follow your logic, we should do away with the regional forums as well. I mean it's basically the same for all countries, right?

SS couples new to immigration might think that they have a lot of special rules for them, and they don't. Should we have special forums for age-gap marriage, first cousin marriages, interfaith marriages, marriages where one person lives in a country hostile to the US, second marriages, third marriages, marriages with step-kids, etc?

In fact, I saw a lot of SS couples getting really upset about special rules, not realizing that these same rules apply to opposite sex couples, because they were hanging out in one thread and not reading the whole forum. It seemed to me, a lot of bad emotion and hurt for no reason.

I understand why people might think that it is required, at first, but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

And yes, I think we should do away with regionals, they just create a coterie mentality and foster division. Furthermore, I often find really bad and wrong information in the regionals, propagated by a few people who post it over and over, and no one reads it and corrects the information, because why would anyone slog through those forums? Any unique thing can be discussed in the consulate forum.

[sharky-rex 76]

There is no "one size fits all" for immigration There are special requirements for other opposite-sex couples too, like first cousins. The whole reason K-1 was invented was because some people can't marry in the foreigner's country, either it takes too long, or the country doesn't allow their type of marriage (like an interfaith marriage). All of the "issues" with SS applications already exist in opposite-sex immigration law and practice. I can't think of a single thing that is unique to SS couples.

Separating SS couples from this discussion is a disservice, imo. There are all sorts of couples.

But this thread is how Arizona is a horrible state. Let's stick to that

One thing that's specific to same-sex couples is name change after marriage. The federal government will recognize your marriage certificate as a legal name change document, but your state won't. This isn't an issue for first cousin marriages because states recognize first cousin couples married in states where such marriages are legal. So you have one name on your green card, and the other on your license. You could get a court order, but some (most?) places require you to be a resident for a year. What do you do in the meantime? I still don't know.

I'm not sure I'd want a whole sub-forum, but is a pinning the threads already there too much to ask for?

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

One thing that's specific to same-sex couples is name change after marriage. The federal government will recognize your marriage certificate as a legal name change document, but your state won't. This isn't an issue for first cousin marriages because states recognize first cousin couples married in states where such marriages are legal. So you have one name on your green card, and the other on your license. You could get a court order, but some (most?) places require you to be a resident for a year. What do you do in the meantime? I still don't know.

I'm not sure I'd want a whole sub-forum, but is a pinning the threads already there too much to ask for?

Opposite-sex people have this problem sometimes with their home passport. In some countries, you can't change your name on your passport after marriage. They just don't recognize it and won't do it. In the US, once you get your GC in your married name, that will get you a SSN in married name, and then you can get a state ID in your married name, and you don't need to show your marriage cert any more, right?

Edited February 23, 2014 by Harpa Timsah

[Karee 4,191]

SS couples new to immigration might think that they have a lot of special rules for them, and they don't. Should we have special forums for age-gap marriage, first cousin marriages, interfaith marriages, marriages where one person lives in a country hostile to the US, second marriages, third marriages, marriages with step-kids, etc?

In fact, I saw a lot of SS couples getting really upset about special rules, not realizing that these same rules apply to opposite sex couples, because they were hanging out in one thread and not reading the whole forum. It seemed to me, a lot of bad emotion and hurt for no reason.

I understand why people might think that it is required, at first, but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

And yes, I think we should do away with regionals, they just create a coterie mentality and foster division. Furthermore, I often find really bad and wrong information in the regionals, propagated by a few people who post it over and over, and no one reads it and corrects the information, because why would anyone slog through those forums? Any unique thing can be discussed in the consulate forum.

All of those things would work themselves out during the course of the discussion, just like they do in the other forums when someone gives out incorrect information. I've seen loads of bad info concerning all aspects of the process here since 2007 when I first signed up. When incorrect information is given, it is usually quickly corrected by multiple members. The reader can then discern which information is correct.

Example:

Poster #1

The sky is purple

Poster #2

No it's not, the sky is blue

Poster #3

The sky is blue

Poster #4

The sky is definitely blue.

Now from that exchange, a reasonable person would assume that poster #1 was incorrect, and the sky is definitely blue.

As far as your suggestion about doing away with the regional forums, that's a really stupid idea IMO. I think it's nice how members from other countries can talk about multiple things that are unique to their country/region in a separate forum. I personally know of many friendships outside of VJ that have started in the regional forums.

Also, I don't really want to hear about TImbits, Justin Bieber, and and the latest winter fashions coming out of Canada, That's why I don't visit the Canada forum. However, things specific to Thailand do interest me for obvious reasons. I can't even count the number of times I've helped people with the process for getting a police report or a medical done in Bangkok. Or if the latest political situation there will affect the process for their loved one(s). Or just some random funny commercial that most people not associated with Thailand would not understand.

Sorry, but the quest to be politically correct 100% of the time, is not always the best policy.

Opposite-sex people have this problem sometimes with their home passport.

Thanks for making my point.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Uh, my point was that the same thing happens to SS couples and opposite-sex couples.

Not sure why you think I am attempting to be politically correct.

I have no regional forum, so, and I've done just fine.