Time outside the US

[alix 20]

My husband and I have been married for almost 9 years. I have been a permanent resident for 7 years now. My husband accepted a job in Singapore in 2007. While he was there I made 3 trips over 6 months but less than a year. Because we no longer had health insurance here both our children were born there. I also removed my conditions during that time, and applied for reentry permits before my first green card expired and after I got the 10-year one. We officially came back in July 2010 and since I haven't taken any trips abroad longer than 1 month. While filling out the N-400 form I had to put all the trips I took in the past 5 years and would have to include 2 of the 3 trips. Do you think this will be a problem? If I wait till May to file I'll only need to include one.

[warlord 73]

My husband and I have been married for almost 9 years. I have been a permanent resident for 7 years now. My husband accepted a job in Singapore in 2007. While he was there I made 3 trips over 6 months but less than a year. Because we no longer had health insurance here both our children were born there. I also removed my conditions during that time, and applied for reentry permits before my first green card expired and after I got the 10-year one. We officially came back in July 2010 and since I haven't taken any trips abroad longer than 1 month. While filling out the N-400 form I had to put all the trips I took in the past 5 years and would have to include 2 of the 3 trips. Do you think this will be a problem? If I wait till May to file I'll only need to include one.

It'll all depend on the nature of the trips. If you were working and residing over there and only coming back to the US for a short time before going back over, then yes that probably will be a problem (in more than one possible way).

If you can document and show proof you didn't abandon your Green Card and or can prove you didn't break residency rules, then no it may not be a problem.

It'll all depend on the proof you show the IO and also on the IO themselves. So anything is possible with this type of situation...

[Shub 78]

This sounds somewhat similar to my own case, except I didn't have any trips lasting more than 6 months. I did have a period between 2009 and 2010 during which I spent the vast majority of my time outside of the US but had reasons or made arrangements to come back every <6 months. I applied for removal of conditions during that time, too.

You wanna know what's funny? I'm a PR since January 2008, so I would have been eligible for citizenship as early as October 2010. However, since I had those lengthy absences and only came back in July 2010, I chose not to apply until 3 years had passed since I came back and ended up submitting my application in November of 2013.

Of course I disclosed my trips over the past 5 years, but I applied under the 3-year rule so they wouldn't have to take my trips into consideration for my citizenship application.

So I sit down at the interview and almost immediately she tells me that she's going to change my application to the 5-year rule instead of the 3-year rule. I didn't even try to explain why I had checked the 3-year rule box. I became a citizen the week after.

That being said, your case is rather different since your trips were >6 months... so I guess my experience isn't all that relevant or helpful. I was just trying to illustrate that I made a big deal out of waiting until I absolutely and undoubtedly met all the requirements and in the end I could have become a citizen 2+ years ago.

Anyway, back to you... when you have trips of 6+ months, the burden is on you to prove that you did not disrupt your continuous residence in the US.

http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartD-Chapter3.html (see part C)

An applicant may overcome the presumption of loss of his or her continuity of residence by providing evidence to establish that the applicant did not disrupt his or her residence. The evidence may include, but is not limited to, documentation that during the absence:

• The applicant did not terminate his or her employment in the United States or obtain employment while abroad.
• The applicants immediate family remained in the United States.
• The applicant retained full access to his or her United States abode.

Do you perhaps fall into one of those categories? And did you file all your tax returns with the IRS every year without fail while you were out of the USA?

I'm getting the impression -- perhaps very erroneously, so don't hold it against me if I'm mistaken -- that you have been a stay-at-home mom for a lot of that time, perhaps that might play in your favor if you tell them that your husband accepted a job abroad and you simply went with him because, well, you weren't going to stay in the US while he goes to Singapore just to make USCIS happy. There is no provision for that in immigration law, and I wouldn't know about precedent law.

Lastly, I just want to make it clear that your case is beyond my experience -- which is limited to begin with -- so don't take what I'm telling you as facts!

Edited February 20, 2014 by Shub

[alix 20]

Thanks warlord....you said I could have problems in more ways than one, what do you mean by that?

I wasn't working there and we have bank accounts here and had a mortgage until 2010 here as well (this was under my husband's name only as when we bought the house I wasn't an LPR yet). I also had a car until late 2009. I have a friend who stayed longer outside the US and she had no issues getting her citizenship.

[alix 20]

Thanks Shub!

Your assumption is correct, I am a stay-home mom. For us it was just cost prohibitive to fly from Singapore to the US every 6 months. Like you, I've waited almost 4 years now to apply for citizenship since we returned.

We did file all the taxes while there and I have the tax returns.

I didn't know they could simply change the basis of application from the 3-year to the 5-year.

Edited February 20, 2014 by alix

[Shub 78]

I didn't know they could simply change the basis of application from the 3-year to the 5-year.

Neither did I. Simply put, the interview is an opportunity for you and the IO to review the contents of your N-400 application and make amendments as necessary. She just decided to change the basis of my application and I didn't fight it. I thought about it later and figured it was just to make her life easier as that removes the need for her to review all the evidence associated with applying based on the 3-year rule.

It made me nervous because it put my trips outside of the US back into the spotlight, but it boiled down to simple numbers. Over the last 5 years, I was allowed no more than 912 days spent outside of the country, I was far below that, and I had no trips over 6 months, so I was fine and that was the end of that.

My main concern was that while I had no single trip lasting 6+ months, I was out of the country from June 2009 to October 2009, came back for 4 days, was out again until December, stayed two weeks, left again, came back for 3 days in February 2010 because I had my biometrics appointment for my removal of conditions, left again, came back at the end of June 2010.

The way I looked at it, I was plainly out of the country for about one year and one month and they would not take into consideration the few days I spent here and there. I wasn't even trying to limit my trips to less than 6 months each, really, it just worked out that way because I had things to do in the US every time I came back. But in the end USCIS went completely by the book and didn't even ask about the purpose of my trips.

That said, I expect that they will ask you about your trips of 6+ months, so you should be prepared. The worst that will happen is that they deny your application and you waste the $680, you are not at risk of having your LPR status rescinded.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Shub

[Shub 78]

Thanks Shub!

Like you, I've waited almost 4 years now to apply for citizenship since we returned.

That reminds me... there is a provision for that in the INA. Kind of. I guess.

8 CFR 316.5 ( c)(1)(ii)

Unless an applicant applies for benefits in accordance with § 316.5(d), absences from the United States for a continuous period of one (1) year or more during the period for which continuous residence is required under § 316.2 (a)(3) and (a)(5) shall disrupt the continuity of the applicant's residence. An applicant described in this paragraph who must satisfy a five-year statutory residence period may file an application for naturalization four years and one day following the date of the applicant's return to the United States to resume permanent residence. An applicant described in this paragraph who must satisfy a three-year statutory residence period may file an application for naturalization two years and one day following the date of the applicant's return to the United States to resume permanent residence.

Note the paragraph applies to people who had trips outside of the US lasting more than a year. I'm not clear on whether the same rule applies to people who have trips of more than 6 months but less than a year. I don't see why not, but I'm no lawyer.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Shub

[ayra 2]

We also have a similar situation here, I am the USC husband and we got married in the USA . My wife got her GC back on August 2009 and then 5 months later we had to move to overseas. She got the travel book for 1 year and stayed outside of the USA. Then when it is time to apply for the removing conditions on July 2012 and she stayed for another 2 months , she was travelling back and forth , not to break the residency rule. Sınce April 2013 , she is in the USA and waiting for the 10 year GC. All together she has been there for 12 months ..

we wonder after she gets her 10 year green card , can she be able to file for the citizenship in 6 months since she will complete the 18 months requirement ?

[alix 20]

I have a friend who was in a very similar situation as mine and she stayed in Singapore for 11 1/2 months away, flew to Guam for two days and went back to Singapore. She did all her application last year and is a citizen now. The difference is that my husband was not on US payroll and hers was. She said they were more interested in proving her marriage was legit than the travel issue. But I know I need to be prepared.

I have one trip that initiated in Nov 08 and ended in May 09. Do you think I should include it? Or wait till May to file? I definitely have been away for less than 912 days in the past 5 years.

I have a friend who was in a very similar situation as mine and she stayed in Singapore for 11 1/2 months away, flew to Guam for two days and went back to Singapore. She did all her application last year and is a citizen now. The difference is that my husband was not on US payroll and hers was. She said they were more interested in proving her marriage was legit than the travel issue. But I know I need to be prepared.

I have one trip that initiated in Nov 08 and ended in May 09. Do you think I should include it? Or wait till May to file? I definitely have been away for less than 912 days in the past 5 years.

[Shub 78]

I have one trip that initiated in Nov 08 and ended in May 09. Do you think I should include it? Or wait till May to file? I definitely have been away for less than 912 days in the past 5 years.

If that trip was within the last five years, then you must include it. I guess it straddles the period of >5 years ago and <5 years ago, but I would include it nonetheless. It's up to you whether to wait until May though. You've waited all this time, it's not that much longer to wait if it saves you trouble.

It is good that you have not been outside of the US for more than 912 days in the past 5 years, but the 6+ month trip(s) will likely trip you up regardless. Those two numbers are related to two distinct requirements when applying for citizenship (physical presence and continuous residence, respectively). Your trips don't necessarily disqualify you, like Warlord pointed out, but you can bet on USCIS asking you about it.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Shub

[alix 20]

Thanks again Shub! I'm still deciding what to do. I just realized I didn't have the tax return transcripts, which I'll need to prove we were still paying taxes here while abroad. I only have the copy of the returns. I'm trying to collect as much documentation as possible before filing in case they ask during the interview.

I guess what frustrates me is that I went to a lawyer and paid to have my application reviewed and she gave me a ton of wrong advice.

Edited February 20, 2014 by alix

[Shub 78]

I'm always reluctant to suggest going to a lawyer unless the case pretty much requires it (like I-601 waivers) because of what they cost, but if you already went to one and they gave you bad info, well... sorry to hear that. I did speak to a lawyer about my own case and he encouraged me to apply in early 2011 but I chose not to. In retrospect, perhaps I should have. Anyway, I found that it was very helpful to have a set of precise questions, as little open-ended as possible, and be prepared to discuss the finer points of the actual text of the law as it pertains to your case so you can grill the lawyer on how the law is actually applied. The law is easy to understand, but there are mountains of jurisprudence that only lawyers and judges -- or laypeople who have done more research than is practical -- know.

So in discussing with my lawyer, I could quote the law and get very specific about what I wanted to know.

I'm telling you this in case you want to go to another lawyer and get a second opinion of sorts, but not everyone has $300 to spend for an hour of the privilege of talking to one.

Definitely do get your IRS tax return transcripts. You can now download them immediately in digital format, or have them mailed to you like always.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Shub

[alix 20]

Somehow I can't download them. And fortunately I only paid $45 for my lawyer's consultation. Also on the Document checklist and Eligibility worksheet (M-477) it seems it's ok that I was out of the country for 6 months or more. One year or more seems to be the concern.

Quick question, which documents did you send for the marriage basis, referring to you and your spouse? And where did you file yours?

Edited February 20, 2014 by alix

[Shub 78]

Yes, it is OK to be out of the country for more than 6 months and less than a year. A lot of people are confused about that!

The catch is that if you're out of the country for less than 6 months, it's on USCIS to prove that you broke the continuous residence requirement.

If you're out for more than 6 months but less than a year, it's on you to prove that you didn't break the continuous residence requirement. If you can't prove it to their satisfaction, they can deny your application.

The continuous residence requirement isn't set in stone in terms of timelines. If you were out of the country for a few months (but less than 6 months), but got rid of your apartment in the US and took a job abroad, that could be enough to get you into trouble. But since it was for less than 6 months, USCIS would have to prove it first.

Being out of the country for more than a year is grounds for inadmissibility as a permanent resident at the point of entry (meaning they can just take your green card away right then and there and send you home with the first flight), unless you have a re-entry permit (which I understand you did), and is always a break of the continuous residence requirement, unless a form N-470 was submitted and granted, and you wouldn't have been eligible to apply for that in the first place.

My case was pretty straightforward all things considered, so I only submitted our tax return transcripts for tax years 2010, 2011 and 2012, since that was all they requested in the checklist.

For the interview, I brought the originals of those transcripts, as well as the form 1098-INT we recently received from our bank (it's your taxable interest statement for the last year) and the title of our car with both our names on it and our current address. In the end though, at the interview, all the lady looked at was my green card, my driver's license and the N-400 form.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Shub

[Shub 78]

Forgot to say that I mailed my application to the lockbox servicing my state (Pennsylvania), which is Dallas.