'Forced' to marry

[Sofiyya 1,687]

If I believe it's a fact, what effect does that have on anyone else?

[MichelleandCraig 1]

You can believe it all day and all night long. Still doesn't MAKE it a fact! Facts can be proven if you recall..that's like elementary school stuff. M.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Ok, so if that's the way you feel, why does my view of things and how I apply them to reality bother you?

Edited January 4, 2007 by szsz

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Your views and opinions don't bother me in the slightest...UNTIL you decide to come on a message board and present them as FACT, in other words leaving NO room for anyone else's opinons on the topic. That's my ONLY problem, has been throughout the thread, and I don't know how many more ways I can say it. M.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Your views and opinions don't bother me in the slightest...UNTIL you decide to come on a message board and present them as FACT, in other words leaving NO room for anyone else's opinons on the topic. That's my ONLY problem, has been throughout the thread, and I don't know how many more ways I can say it. M.

Michelle,

I am confused. Plenty of people opine on this board (and others) on all types of subjects. How do typed opinions "leave no room" for other opinions? In fact, if I peruse this thread, I see a wide variety of opinions. So if szsz is trying to "leave no room" for other opinions, she has clearly failed.

[MichelleandCraig 1]

I believe you probably know what I meant, Ari. To present something as a fact isn't the same thing as offering an opinion on it. Fine, if she wants to think that way, more power to her, but to say that everyone else is wrong (which she HAS done, consistently on this thread) for what they think is..well, wrong. M.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

PS - "Facts" can be very fluid. Remember when it was a fact that the world was flat? Or a fact that Pluto was a planet? Or a fact that women and minorities were not competent to vote?

Discussions of issues like this can involve empirical evidence, and they have. But as been shown here, each person is invested in seeing things their way, and one even went so far as to link to a study - a single study - that challenged the view I lean toward. Social science studies primarily examine systems, not individuals. Their methodologies and results are somewhat relative and involves mitigating factors, but they generally aspire to predict social consequences. But, people as a species, being near-sighted individuals, want what we want for ourselves, not always want what we need to benefit society as a whole.

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Well, if I'm arguing the opposite viewpoint from youthen, and I just "want what I want" then why am I married with no intention of divorcing in the future? M.

ETA: Pluto and the world are physical geography. I can see how those things were proven or disproven. But how do you ultimately prove or disprove a concept such as commitment? M.

Edited January 4, 2007 by MichelleandCraig

[Sofiyya 1,687]

So if szsz is trying to "leave no room" for other opinions, she has clearly failed.

Actually, by failing to shut out other opinions, I hav succeeded, since that was never my intent.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

... to say that everyone else is wrong (which she HAS done, consistently on this thread) for what they think is..well, wrong. M.

I disagree. Saying you are wrong is nothing more than just that - saying you are wrong. By itself, the fact that the statement was made doesn't make you wrong.

People need to stop expecting everyone else to always validate their life choices for them. It doesn't work that way. I think szsz follows a false religion, a lie. I will even go as far as saying that I believe that opinion to be true, that her religion is a lie. I believe my opinion is fact. Does szsz care? I bet you she doesn't.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I believe you probably know what I meant, Ari. To present something as a fact isn't the same thing as offering an opinion on it. Fine, if she wants to think that way, more power to her, but to say that everyone else is wrong (which she HAS done, consistently on this thread) for what they think is..well, wrong. M.

Another distortion. That is not what I said, but it certainly has been attributed to me. It goes unnoticed that it has also been done TO me. You've been insisting that I'm wrong for a while now.

[Jenn! 918]

szsz,

How would you respond if someone were to say to you, "People who get married do so because they are weak. They are insecure about their feelings and they need society to validate their relationship." Would you not present your actual reasons for getting married in order to show that their assertion is not true?

For me, it's just aggravating to have someone believe something about me that I know is not true. And even more aggravating for them to keep insisitng that their opinion is the way it is, when your exprience tells you it is not.

[MichelleandCraig 1]

I agree to a *point*. It doesn't matter to ME personally what szsz thinks, just live your life, ignore it, get over it, blah blah...I get what you're saying. On the other hand, we would NEVER have debates on this board, and we have had MANY, if most any of us subscribed to the notions you just mentioned.....

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I agree to a *point*. It doesn't matter to ME personally what szsz thinks, just live your life, ignore it, get over it, blah blah...I get what you're saying. On the other hand, we would NEVER have debates on this board, and we have had MANY, if most any of us subscribed to the notions you just mentioned.....

Honestly, I think most of us argue to argue. How many liberals do you know on VJ who have turned conservative or conservatives who have turned liberal or Christians who have turned nudist/pagan or Muslims who have turned Jewish? It doesn't happen.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

People need to stop expecting everyone else to always validate their life choices for them. It doesn't work that way. I think szsz follows a false religion, a lie. I will even go as far as saying that I believe that opinion to be true, that her religion is a lie. I believe my opinion is fact. Does szsz care? I bet you she doesn't.

I made that very point earlier, and many times. Why does anyone care what I think? How does my view affect them? Why do they need my validation to feel good about themselves? You and Gary are the only ones that have noticed that. All others are focused on changing me, as if I have no right to an opinion not their own. Infact, they keep accusing me of what they're doing.

No, my friend. Not only am I not at all offended, I absolutely support your right to your choice of religion. What I know is that there is a God and only He knows who got it right. The rest of us will find out in time.