'Forced' to marry

[garya505 2]

No, you don't really know the "type of relationship" I was in, as you weren't in it, and all you know is that we were not married and it lasted 20 years until she died.

How arrogant. How do you know it's unusual? Your only experience is your own. If other people can't possibly understand your situation, then the same goes for you with others'.

You can choose what you would like to believe, but I know she would be laughing now (as I am) if she could read this.

[bostonparis 0]

No, you don't really know the "type of relationship" I was in, as you weren't in it, and all you know is that we were not married and it lasted 20 years until she died.

How arrogant. How do you know it's unusual? Your only experience is your own. If other people can't possibly understand your situation, then the same goes for you with others'.

You can choose what you would like to believe, but I know she would be laughing now (as I am) if she could read this.

Of course you're laughing. Just like I am. It's amazing how self-centered people are when it comes to their relationships. "No one had a love like ours." "No one has ever felt like I do." How many times do people hear that?

[bostonparis 0]

Again,it's pointless, but here I go anyway:

Gary, does it really MATTER what TYPE of relationship it was?? The fact remains, for WHATEVER reason, you were NOT married, but you were VERY committed. That is all anyone has been saying about any of us, and I don't buy for one minute that you, or your relationship (and I hesitate to add that only becaue I am sorry that's she's passed on, but feel it necessary to say what I'm saying here) was any more special than any one of any of OUR relationships on this board. That's a very chauvanistic (sp??) remark, if that's what you're meaning. M.

No, not more "special", (I never said that) but it was unusual.

Wait, wait, you're saying that because you had an UNUSUAL relationship that you were more committed than most? PLEASE! That's a big bunch of #######. My SO and I have an unusual relationship too. Does that make me more committed?

[ceriserose 1]

I understand that there are many who con't deal with my views, so they insist that I concede. Sorry, I'm not a moral relativist, nor politically correct. I don't always run with the crowd.

Apples and oranges about homosexuals. They normally can't get married, we can. And where they can, many do.

It's NOT A CONCESSION to say that you accept that people have differing views!! You see it as a sign of weakness for some reason.

Gary, what was so particular about your relationship that it was the exception rather than the rule?

It's kind of interesting to me...in my paradigm and life experience, the type of relationship Gary is describing as an exception has always been the rule. Perspective makes the difference sometimes.

You have no idea. Really, you don't.

I have no idea about my own paradigm and life experience? Riiiight.

No, you don't really know the "type of relationship" I was in, as you weren't in it, and all you know is that we were not married and it lasted 20 years until she died.

Right, I was basing my comments solely on yours. You gave several facts - that you were in the relationship, she didn't want to be married for reasons important to her, and that you had a 20 year commitment with her and she passed away. You described those as exceptions to the rule (marriage?) in your paradigm.

Taking your comments at face value, without whatever nuances you know about that the rest of us don't, what you've described is not an exception to me, it is more the norm. End of story.

So no, I don't really know the "type of relationship" you were in, beyond what you yourself described. I didn't comment on your relationship using any sort of value judgments, extrapolate the facts you provided, or indicate in any way I had information beyond what you shared. Based solely on what you said, I found my paradigm to be the opposite - that most familiar in my world have been commitments without the need for marriage.

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Exactly what I was saying. I don't find it unusual either, no matter WHAT it was like...we all feel like that. (special, unusual, semantics again)

See, I'm laughing too. Cool..we can have a partaaaaaaae!

[ceriserose 1]

No, you don't really know the "type of relationship" I was in, as you weren't in it, and all you know is that we were not married and it lasted 20 years until she died.

How arrogant. How do you know it's unusual? Your only experience is your own. If other people can't possibly understand your situation, then the same goes for you with others'.

You can choose what you would like to believe, but I know she would be laughing now (as I am) if she could read this.

Of course you're laughing. Just like I am. It's amazing how self-centered people are when it comes to their relationships. "No one had a love like ours." "No one has ever felt like I do." How many times do people hear that?

Oddly enough, I wasn't even meaning myself in my comments. I really meant family/friends etc. It's more the norm in my paradigm for commitment without marriage.

*shrug* It was a simple comment, not intended nor designed to be any sort of an attack. I found it interesting that one person's experience in commitment would be described as the exception where in my life it's more the rule. I should know better by now.

[bostonparis 0]

No, you don't really know the "type of relationship" I was in, as you weren't in it, and all you know is that we were not married and it lasted 20 years until she died.

How arrogant. How do you know it's unusual? Your only experience is your own. If other people can't possibly understand your situation, then the same goes for you with others'.

You can choose what you would like to believe, but I know she would be laughing now (as I am) if she could read this.

Of course you're laughing. Just like I am. It's amazing how self-centered people are when it comes to their relationships. "No one had a love like ours." "No one has ever felt like I do." How many times do people hear that?

Oddly enough, I wasn't even meaning myself in my comments. I really meant family/friends etc. It's more the norm in my paradigm for commitment without marriage.

*shrug* It was a simple comment, not intended nor designed to be any sort of an attack. I found it interesting that one person's experience in commitment would be described as the exception where in my life it's more the rule. I should know better by now.

Oh, no - my comment was to Gary - I understood that you see more people with committment without marriage. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

[garya505 2]

Again,it's pointless, but here I go anyway:

Gary, does it really MATTER what TYPE of relationship it was?? The fact remains, for WHATEVER reason, you were NOT married, but you were VERY committed. That is all anyone has been saying about any of us, and I don't buy for one minute that you, or your relationship (and I hesitate to add that only becaue I am sorry that's she's passed on, but feel it necessary to say what I'm saying here) was any more special than any one of any of OUR relationships on this board. That's a very chauvanistic (sp??) remark, if that's what you're meaning. M.

No, not more "special", (I never said that) but it was unusual.

Wait, wait, you're saying that because you had an UNUSUAL relationship that you were more committed than most? PLEASE! That's a big bunch of #######. My SO and I have an unusual relationship too. Does that make me more committed?

Nope, I didn't say that. We were in a commited relationship and it was an unusual relationship.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Aren't most of the relationships here "unusual" in the sense that we are very far apart and have to wait several months in order for our fiance(e)/wife/husband to get here due to immigration?

[bostonparis 0]

Again,it's pointless, but here I go anyway:

Gary, does it really MATTER what TYPE of relationship it was?? The fact remains, for WHATEVER reason, you were NOT married, but you were VERY committed. That is all anyone has been saying about any of us, and I don't buy for one minute that you, or your relationship (and I hesitate to add that only becaue I am sorry that's she's passed on, but feel it necessary to say what I'm saying here) was any more special than any one of any of OUR relationships on this board. That's a very chauvanistic (sp??) remark, if that's what you're meaning. M.

No, not more "special", (I never said that) but it was unusual.

Wait, wait, you're saying that because you had an UNUSUAL relationship that you were more committed than most? PLEASE! That's a big bunch of #######. My SO and I have an unusual relationship too. Does that make me more committed?

Nope, I didn't say that. We were in a commited relationship and it was an unusual relationship.

Right, and others among us in the world have unusual, committed relationships. Because you had an unusual, committed relationship, you should realize that others too have that same level of committment. I am in a committed relationship that is an unusual relationship, too. I still don't see how you can honestly think, at your age, that your relationship was any different (in the larger sense) than anyones else's who has been in a relationship for a length of time.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Also, szsz you keep thinking people want you to concede *your opinion*. NOBODY has asked you to do that. You HAVE been asked (at least by me) to not see things as so black and white. You're acting like a defiant child with arms crossed, foot stomping, saying "People who are married ARE more commited and that is THAT I tell you!" No disclaimer of any kind ever, like that's JMHO, or that's what I think anyway, or blah blah blah. Just "Well, no one is changing their opinions, so why should I change MINE?" No one has ASKED you to change yours, just to acknowledge that it's NOT FACT, BUT RATHER OPINION. PERIOD.

*sigh* *bangs head against wall*

Someone pleaseeeeeeeeee tell me why I'm even bothering???? M.

Please see the post below. That is what I was responding to about conceding.

I could do some head banging too! But, no . . .

If I refuse to change or disclaim my opinion, I'm a defiant child?! I've been told this in one way or another for two days now, but it makes no sense. Why do I have to change or disclaim my opinion to please anyone? Why does my opinion even matter to anyone to the point where this thread has grown to more then 40 pages? Who else needs to change their opinion.

Listen, some of you in another setting may be some of the sweetest people on earth, but here. there has been a lot of "defiant child" to go around. Look at what's happening to Gary now. People are trying to convince him to change his opinion about his past long term relationship, what it means to him, and how it relates to the opinions of others.

If he won't see things their way, he's WRONG, and must be worn down.

This is a typical scenario. So predictable. But, alot of us ( on all sides) don't wear down.

Nearly 40 pages based mostly around szsz. Just because most of us completely disagree with her does not mean we should keep going with this thread. Stop trying to convince her. Let her believe she's better than everyone else and stop giving her so much attention.

Understanding what I was saying in the first place would have been a good start. You never did get it, so you don't even know what you're arguing about. Those who couldn't figure out what this thread is about were right. Much ado about nothing.

Yes, you are. However, I'm not sure why you can't concede that there are different opinions on this, and not one of them is right, and not one of them is wrong. You will respond saying something along the lines of, "I'm not the one arguing about this, I'm just stating my opinion." Your opinion is that everyone else's opinions are wrong.

I just don't get that. The reason I asked in the first place was because I was curious if people felt like they were getting married before the natural course of the relationship took them to marriage, even though they knew that they either would eventually get married, or would be fully committed, if immigration were not an issue.

So why do homosexuals have a "committment" ceremony because they are not allowed to have a legally binding marriage? Because they're committed!! Wheeeeeeeee!!

[garya505 2]

Again,it's pointless, but here I go anyway:

Gary, does it really MATTER what TYPE of relationship it was?? The fact remains, for WHATEVER reason, you were NOT married, but you were VERY committed. That is all anyone has been saying about any of us, and I don't buy for one minute that you, or your relationship (and I hesitate to add that only becaue I am sorry that's she's passed on, but feel it necessary to say what I'm saying here) was any more special than any one of any of OUR relationships on this board. That's a very chauvanistic (sp??) remark, if that's what you're meaning. M.

No, not more "special", (I never said that) but it was unusual.

Wait, wait, you're saying that because you had an UNUSUAL relationship that you were more committed than most? PLEASE! That's a big bunch of #######. My SO and I have an unusual relationship too. Does that make me more committed?

Nope, I didn't say that. We were in a commited relationship and it was an unusual relationship.

Right, and others among us in the world have unusual, committed relationships. Because you had an unusual, committed relationship, you should realize that others too have that same level of committment. I am in a committed relationship that is an unusual relationship, too. I still don't see how you can honestly think, at your age, that your relationship was any different (in the larger sense) than anyones else's who has been in a relationship for a length of time.

Yes, I can understand why you can't see that.

[ceriserose 1]

No, you don't really know the "type of relationship" I was in, as you weren't in it, and all you know is that we were not married and it lasted 20 years until she died.

How arrogant. How do you know it's unusual? Your only experience is your own. If other people can't possibly understand your situation, then the same goes for you with others'.

You can choose what you would like to believe, but I know she would be laughing now (as I am) if she could read this.

Of course you're laughing. Just like I am. It's amazing how self-centered people are when it comes to their relationships. "No one had a love like ours." "No one has ever felt like I do." How many times do people hear that?

Oddly enough, I wasn't even meaning myself in my comments. I really meant family/friends etc. It's more the norm in my paradigm for commitment without marriage.

*shrug* It was a simple comment, not intended nor designed to be any sort of an attack. I found it interesting that one person's experience in commitment would be described as the exception where in my life it's more the rule. I should know better by now.

Oh, no - my comment was to Gary - I understood that you see more people with committment without marriage. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

Nono, I didn't think you were aiming that at me. I was springboarding off your comments that I wasn't meaning myself. I just kept talking after that. My bad to not be clearer.

[bostonparis 0]

Nono, I didn't think you were aiming that at me. I was springboarding off your comments that I wasn't meaning myself. I just kept talking after that. My bad to not be clearer.

Gotcha!

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Also, szsz you keep thinking people want you to concede *your opinion*. NOBODY has asked you to do that. You HAVE been asked (at least by me) to not see things as so black and white. You're acting like a defiant child with arms crossed, foot stomping, saying "People who are married ARE more commited and that is THAT I tell you!" No disclaimer of any kind ever, like that's JMHO, or that's what I think anyway, or blah blah blah. Just "Well, no one is changing their opinions, so why should I change MINE?" No one has ASKED you to change yours, just to acknowledge that it's NOT FACT, BUT RATHER OPINION. PERIOD.

*sigh* *bangs head against wall*

Someone pleaseeeeeeeeee tell me why I'm even bothering???? M.

Please see the post below. That is what I was responding to about conceding.

I could do some head banging too! But, no . . .

If I refuse to change or disclaim my opinion, I'm a defiant child?! I've been told this in one way or another for two days now, but it makes no sense. Why do I have to change or disclaim my opinion to please anyone? Why does my opinion even matter to anyone to the point where this thread has grown to more then 40 pages? Who else needs to change their opinion.

Listen, some of you in another setting may be some of the sweetest people on earth, but here. there has been a lot of "defiant child" to go around. Look at what's happening to Gary now. People are trying to convince him to change his opinion about his past long term relationship, what it means to him, and how it relates to the opinions of others.

If he won't see things their way, he's WRONG, and must be worn down.

This is a typical scenario. So predictable. But, alot of us ( on all sides) don't wear down.

Nearly 40 pages based mostly around szsz. Just because most of us completely disagree with her does not mean we should keep going with this thread. Stop trying to convince her. Let her believe she's better than everyone else and stop giving her so much attention.

Understanding what I was saying in the first place would have been a good start. You never did get it, so you don't even know what you're arguing about. Those who couldn't figure out what this thread is about were right. Much ado about nothing.

Yes, you are. However, I'm not sure why you can't concede that there are different opinions on this, and not one of them is right, and not one of them is wrong. You will respond saying something along the lines of, "I'm not the one arguing about this, I'm just stating my opinion." Your opinion is that everyone else's opinions are wrong.

I just don't get that. The reason I asked in the first place was because I was curious if people felt like they were getting married before the natural course of the relationship took them to marriage, even though they knew that they either would eventually get married, or would be fully committed, if immigration were not an issue.

So why do homosexuals have a "committment" ceremony because they are not allowed to have a legally binding marriage? Because they're committed!! Wheeeeeeeee!!

What part of the above highlighted don't you understand? Never mind, I've had enough, so I don't really care if you answer or not, but I just wanted to point that out one last time. You can't even admit (though it's so glaringly obvious that everyone seems to see it but YOU) that your stance is JUST AN OPINION and not FACT as you've stated it to be??? Actually, nevermind again. In rereading, I see that you said 'disclaim your OPINION', and you have used the word before in these pages...so, clearly you do recognize then, that your statements are opinion and not fact. ?? M.