'Forced' to marry

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Like I care, hon. Like I said, hon, try to stop me.

It's amusing how folks who have a problem with committment get upset when someone acknowledges it to them. If what I said didn't touch a nerve, you wouldn't be so intent on shutting me down.

The only person with a problem with committment here is you: you refuse to acknowledge that a couple can be committed without marriage, and the rest of the posters think a couple can be committed without marriage.

I realize that I do not conform to the hedonistic model that is overtaking our society, but that's my curse. I'm not a hedonist. I confess. You're an atheist, peezy. You must understand that if I thought like this as you do, I would be closer to the atheist thinking. Not gonna happen.

[peezey 0]

I repeat, if what I said didn't touch a nerve, there would not be a reaction intent on shutting me down. Those that don't care what I said aren't here insulting me.

You've met the straw man, szsz, many a time in this thread.

It touches a nerve because you are insulting those who feel forced to marry (property contract) rather than being able to choose committment without contract. Your suggestion that it's provoking people because deep down people aren't committed, is, as I said, straw man at it's best.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I repeat, if what I said didn't touch a nerve, there would not be a reaction intent on shutting me down. Those that don't care what I said aren't here insulting me.

You've met the straw man, szsz, many a time in this thread.

It touches a nerve because you are insulting those who feel forced to marry (property contract) rather than being able to choose committment without contract. Your suggestion that it's provoking people because deep down people aren't committed, is, as I said, straw man at it's best.

it's hardly a straw man when people react as if it's real. I'm not forcing them to do anything. Neither is the government. Adulthood is about making choices. If you're old enough to live together, you're old enough to marry. No whining. your choice.

[peezey 0]

There was a discussion before you showed up, sweetie.

I don't come here to do research. I'd be a piss poor scientist if I did. No one asked for your life story, so don't expect me to be grateful to get it.

Name calling becomes you, btw.

Seriously, if you feel that you were forced to rush into marriage and you would prefer NOT to be married, is the outlook for your marriage predictable the best? The initital elements - rush, resentment, an act against values - don't bode well, logically.

Is this what you are arguing FOR?

Why would this be the case at all? You are using your values to predict the outcome. If those who would prefer to cohabitate must marry because of immigration law in order to be together, that doesn't mean their marriage is doomed just because they would have prefered, immigration aside, to not have made a property contract with each other.

Again, I was citing studies done on the success rate of cohabiting couples, which is poor. Shame on me for citing empirical evidence instead of relying only on how I FEEL about everything.

No, you didn't cite anything here, but to go back to the numbers, the difference isn't huge, I'm actually surprised anyone considers it statistically significant.

[peezey 0]

I repeat, if what I said didn't touch a nerve, there would not be a reaction intent on shutting me down. Those that don't care what I said aren't here insulting me.

You've met the straw man, szsz, many a time in this thread.

It touches a nerve because you are insulting those who feel forced to marry (property contract) rather than being able to choose committment without contract. Your suggestion that it's provoking people because deep down people aren't committed, is, as I said, straw man at it's best.

it's hardly a straw man when people react as if it's real. I'm not forcing them to do anything. Neither is the government. Adulthood is about making choices. If you're old enough to live together, you're old enough to marry. No whining. your choice.

It is a choice if your SO lives here, but it's not if he doesn't. Also, being old enough to live together is clearly the pinnacle for some, and is fine with them, and is as meaningful to them as marriage is to you. When you put these two statements together, you are making the value judgement that the next thing is marriage, when clearly it isn't for many.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I did cite studies. They're on the "sex before marriage" thread, this is an offshoot from it. If anyone had asked for a link, I would have gladly provided it.

The fact is, the divirce rate for those who lived together before marriage is 80-85%. That is statistically significant. That has been the case since the 1970s. The analogy to this topic is that if you feel pressured to marry when you don't really want to, your chances of statying married are smaller because you are not committed to marriage. If you are committed, marriage should not bother you at all.

Edited January 1, 2007 by szsz

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It is a choice if your SO lives here, but it's not if he doesn't. Also, being old enough to live together is clearly the pinnacle for some, and is fine with them, and is as meaningful to them as marriage is to you. When you put these two statements together, you are making the value judgement that the next thing is marriage, when clearly it isn't for many.

It is a choice PERIOD. No blaming the government for your own committmentphobia. If people don't want to marry their Sos, they can lobby their government to change the rules OR they can find a local love who meets their criteria.

[bostonparis 0]

It is a choice if your SO lives here, but it's not if he doesn't. Also, being old enough to live together is clearly the pinnacle for some, and is fine with them, and is as meaningful to them as marriage is to you. When you put these two statements together, you are making the value judgement that the next thing is marriage, when clearly it isn't for many.

It is a choice PERIOD. No blaming the government for your own committmentphobia. If people don't want to marry their Sos, they can lobby their government to change the rules OR they can find a local love who meets their criteria.

The bold statement above proves to me that you do not understand what most people here are saying. Just because people don't want to get married does not mean that they are not committed!!!!!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Frankly, I can understand that and still disagree with them, ok? But, if you're so sure that all I need is convincing, can you explain why people soooo committed to one person are afraid of marrying them?

Edited January 1, 2007 by szsz

[Alex+R 0]

It is a choice if your SO lives here, but it's not if he doesn't. Also, being old enough to live together is clearly the pinnacle for some, and is fine with them, and is as meaningful to them as marriage is to you. When you put these two statements together, you are making the value judgement that the next thing is marriage, when clearly it isn't for many.

It is a choice PERIOD. No blaming the government for your own committmentphobia. If people don't want to marry their Sos, they can lobby their government to change the rules OR they can find a local love who meets their criteria.

The bold statement above proves to me that you do not understand what most people here are saying. Just because people don't want to get married does not mean that they are not committed!!!!!

Szsz cannot comprehend that complex idea. Does not compute. To understand that, she would have to think outside her own value system, which she can't do. Which is probably why she does not work in her field.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Szsz cannot comprehend that complex idea. Does not compute. To understand that, she would have to think outside her own value system, which she can't do. Which is probably why she does not work in her field.

I do work in my field, Alex. Does that mean to you that I cannot have a personal opinion, or are you used to mealy mouthed pc sociologist? They can only make it in academics.

It's so complex that no one has explained it except to say "I just don wanna". You willing to go beyond that?

Edited January 1, 2007 by szsz

[bostonparis 0]

Szsz cannot comprehend that complex idea. Does not compute. To understand that, she would have to think outside her own value system, which she can't do. Which is probably why she does not work in her field.

I do work in my field, Alex. Does that mean to you that I cannot have a personal opinion, or are you used to mealy mouthed pc sociologist? They can only make it in academics.

It's so complex that no one has explained it except to say "I just don wanna". You willing to go beyond that?

You're a sociologist???

[peezey 0]

Like I care, hon. Like I said, hon, try to stop me.

It's amusing how folks who have a problem with committment get upset when someone acknowledges it to them. If what I said didn't touch a nerve, you wouldn't be so intent on shutting me down.

The only person with a problem with committment here is you: you refuse to acknowledge that a couple can be committed without marriage, and the rest of the posters think a couple can be committed without marriage.

I realize that I do not conform to the hedonistic model that is overtaking our society, but that's my curse. I'm not a hedonist. I confess. You're an atheist, peezy. You must understand that if I thought like this as you do, I would be closer to the atheist thinking. Not gonna happen.

I'd venture a guess that many of the people who prefer non-marriage committments are not atheists.

I certainly know where you are coming from, but I see your statements as filled with judgement. That's fine, but people will, of course, react and stick up for their position.

Keep in mind I have yet to state my opinion about this either way.

eta: this=marriage v. not marriage

Edited January 1, 2007 by peezey

[Alex+R 0]

Szsz cannot comprehend that complex idea. Does not compute. To understand that, she would have to think outside her own value system, which she can't do. Which is probably why she does not work in her field.

I do work in my field, Alex. Does that mean to you that I cannot have a personal opinion, or are you used to mealy mouthed pc sociologist? They can only make it in academics.

It's so complex that no one has explained it except to say "I just don wanna". You willing to go beyond that?

You know, I haven't based my personal opinion that you would be an awful sociologist on your closed-minded opinions. I've based it on your basic misunderstanding of statistics, your judgmental knee-jerk responses to other people's lifestyles, and your inability to demonstrate an ability to reason logically. I just don't think you've got what it takes to make it in academia, and I sense a little bit of bitterness from you toward those who do!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I certainly know where you are coming from, but I see your statements as filled with judgement.

I used to be curious about why women reacted so defensively to me, but my collegues often say that I don't argue like a woman, so women are intimidated by me. I cause a kind of disconcernation in their expectations of how a women would express herself. That's why other women's judgmental comments are not seen as judgmental next to mine.