Concealed Carry in Illinois

[luckytxn 2,264]

Victors should be allowed to dictate terms of defeat.

I'm requesting that the off topic posts be removed so that we can stick to the subject matter at hand. Some of what is being discussed would be better addressed in a separate thread. I'm not singling anyone out on this, I just think it's best that we stick to the CC in Illinois subject. I would also like to see proof to substantiate the claim that tens of thousand of Illinois residents went out of state to get a CC permit the day after the ruling.

Note that thus far no link has been provided to provide any information to refute the information on the Illinois State Police and several pro gun websites.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

~~Off topic posts removed, stick to the topic on hand~~

My post was directly on topic. Guess I'll just have to live with the memory?

[spookyturtle 9,465]

My request to have off topic posts wasn't intended to offend, Marvin, Gary, ready or anyone else. I started this thread with the idea of sticking completely to the subject of CC in Illinois, and not to get on a tangent about crime, race etc. That's good material for another thread.

Claims were made that CC carry became legal in Illinois back in December of 2012 and that tens of thousands of Illinois residents rushed to other states and got permits, allegedly allowing them to legal CC, hence the claim for a reduction in crime for 2013, We know that this claim is false, so I felt that the CC issue needed to be cleared up before we went into the crime rate reduction. Simply stated, CC had nothing to do with the reduced crime rate because there was/is no CC. I didn't want to put the horse before the cart.

I supplied multiple credible sources to show what the reality of the situation is. I openly welcome anyone to provide credible sources showing otherwise.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

There has been no year of concealed carry as there has been no concealed carry to date. Deflect it all you want. Being verbose for the sake of verbosity doesn't prove anything. Why not man up and admit you made it all up to get a rise out of people? No stalemate at all, you haven't provided any proof of your claims. But then again you knew that when you started this nonsense months ago.

Nothing but more BS. Own up to it and move on.

I posted the 7th Circuit Ruling. Even copied and pasted the verbage. When a law is declared unconstitutional it cannot be enforced. There was no law against concealed carry at the time of trhe ruling.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I posted the 7th Circuit Ruling. Even copied and pasted the verbage. When a law is declared unconstitutional it cannot be enforced. There was no law against concealed carry at the time of trhe ruling.

Yep, and the Court granted a 180 day stay on the decision to allow Illinois to pass a reasonable CC law. And then they were given reasonable time to implement it, which they are in the process of doing. Bottom line is still the same, no CC to date, no exodus of tens of thousands to get an out of state permit.

I posted a link to the ruling. You have yet to provide any links to back your claims.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My request to have off topic posts wasn't intended to offend, Marvin, Gary, ready or anyone else. I started this thread with the idea of sticking completely to the subject of CC in Illinois, and not to get on a tangent about crime, race etc. That's good material for another thread.

Claims were made that CC carry became legal in Illinois back in December of 2012 and that tens of thousands of Illinois residents rushed to other states and got permits, allegedly allowing them to legal CC, hence the claim for a reduction in crime for 2013, We know that this claim is false, so I felt that the CC issue needed to be cleared up before we went into the crime rate reduction. Simply stated, CC had nothing to do with the reduced crime rate because there was/is no CC. I didn't want to put the horse before the cart.

I supplied multiple credible sources to show what the reality of the situation is. I openly welcome anyone to provide credible sources showing otherwise.

Tens of thousands of IL residents already had non resident permits from other states before the ruling. In fact, it was two of them that were carrying concealed with those permits that led to this ruling. Did you READ the ruling? You posted it, I presumed you read it. Did you read the district court rulings that led to this ruling? Or, as you said before "I have read enough"? You prefer commercial website quotes over reading the law. I don't. To each their own.

Immediately after the ruling the classes offering permits for Utah filled up and thousands more were issued permits.

There is no TOS rule requiring anyone to post links. You can believe me or not, I don't care and my opinion remains unchanged.

CC reduced crime in IL and Chicago. You have not proven it did not.

If you can show that an unconstitutional law can be enforced...please do. Do you know what it means when a court said "the findings are reversed and remanded"? The convictions were overturned. It was unconstitutional for IL to forbid CC they way they were doing it. So where is the law that forbids CC?

But thanks for removing all the BS.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Tens of thousands of IL residents already had non resident permits from other states before the ruling. In fact, it was two of them that were carrying concealed with those permits that led to this ruling. Did you READ the ruling? You posted it, I presumed you read it. Did you read the district court rulings that led to this ruling? Or, as you said before "I have read enough"? You prefer commercial website quotes over reading the law. I don't. To each their own.

Immediately after the ruling the classes offering permits for Utah filled up and thousands more were issued permits.

There is no TOS rule requiring anyone to post links. You can believe me or not, I don't care and my opinion remains unchanged.

CC reduced crime in IL and Chicago. You have not proven it did not.

If you can show that an unconstitutional law can be enforced...please do. Do you know what it means when a court said "the findings are reversed and remanded"? The convictions were overturned. It was unconstitutional for IL to forbid CC they way they were doing it. So where is the law that forbids CC?

But thanks for removing all the BS.

Not true, I know it, and you know it. Post a link showing where tens of thousands ran out the day after the ruling and got out of state permits. Since your're about it, it should be easy. I'm the only one who has posted any sources thus far in this discussion.so Please post sources that prove that all of mine are wrong.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yep, and the Court granted a 180 day stay on the decision to allow Illinois to pass a reasonable CC law. And then they were given reasonable time to implement it, which they are in the process of doing. Bottom line is still the same, no CC to date, no exodus of tens of thousands to get an out of state permit.

I posted a link to the ruling. You have yet to provide any links to back your claims.

I copied parts from the ruling, do I need to post the same links you did?

The stay was on the directions of the order, Spooky. You really think they would have arrested and prosecuted someone for the same law the day after that ruling? The court, in its directions dictated a CC policy and the state had 180 days to adopt their own or accept the courts order. On February 13, 2013 they agreed to adopt their own law, not appeal the case and not prosecute anyone carrying concealed pursuant to a non resident permit.

CC reduced crime in Chicago and IL in 2013. You haven't proved it did not.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Post up.

[CarlosAndSveta 808]

CC reduced crime in IL and Chicago.

That is your opinion. You also claim it is a fact. People on this forum just want you to provide proof.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

That is your opinion. You also claim it is a fact. People on this forum just want you to provide proof.

This thread is about CC in Illinois. The crime rate is a topic for another discussion.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Not true, I know it, and you know it. Post a link showing where tens of thousands ran out the day after the ruling and got out of state permits. Since your're about it, it should be easy. I'm the only one who has posted any sources thus far in this discussion.so Please post sources that prove that all of mine are wrong.

As you said in an earlier post in this thread. "If I am wrong it should be easy to prove" So prove they did not. You have posted nothing to show I am wrong.

Are you denying that IL residents had non resident permits before the ruling?

I am not posting any more links Spooky. None. I have done it over and over and over and those that do not agree simply ignore them and continue with their nonsense. I am comfortable with people being uninformed and misguided and feel no need to correct you or get a concession from you.

Nor will you get one from me. You can start another thread, and another and another. Nothing will change.

CC reduced crime in Chicago and IL in 2013 and will reduce it further in 2014. Be happy about that Spooky. Soon enough we will have a ruling that forces MA to adopt "shall issue" rules also. You think we were done with IL? Not hardly.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

As you said in an earlier post in this thread. "If I am wrong it should be easy to prove" So prove they did not. You have posted nothing to show I am wrong.

Are you denying that IL residents had non resident permits before the ruling?

I am not posting any more links Spooky. None. I have done it over and over and over and those that do not agree simply ignore them and continue with their nonsense. I am comfortable with people being uninformed and misguided and feel no need to correct you or get a concession from you.

Nor will you get one from me. You can start another thread, and another and another. Nothing will change.

CC reduced crime in Chicago and IL in 2013 and will reduce it further in 2014. Be happy about that Spooky. Soon enough we will have a ruling that forces MA to adopt "shall issue" rules also. You think we were done with IL? Not hardly.

You've posted no links. Nice attempt at deflection. Pathetic.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My request to have off topic posts wasn't intended to offend, Marvin, Gary, ready or anyone else. I started this thread with the idea of sticking completely to the subject of CC in Illinois, and not to get on a tangent about crime, race etc. That's good material for another thread.

Claims were made that CC carry became legal in Illinois back in December of 2012 and that tens of thousands of Illinois residents rushed to other states and got permits, allegedly allowing them to legal CC, hence the claim for a reduction in crime for 2013, We know that this claim is false, so I felt that the CC issue needed to be cleared up before we went into the crime rate reduction. Simply stated, CC had nothing to do with the reduced crime rate because there was/is no CC. I didn't want to put the horse before the cart.

I supplied multiple credible sources to show what the reality of the situation is. I openly welcome anyone to provide credible sources showing otherwise.

I stated in my first post in this thread that you were correct about IL's new law not accepting non resident permits. We have no argument there.

When a law banning something is overturned there is no law to prosecute under. When there is no enforceable law to prosecute someone, then the activity is LEGAL. Spooky, show me a law that allows you to mow your lawn! There is none, and you cannot link to it because it does not exist.

There is no law that allows everyone in Vermont to carry a gun. There is no law AGAINST IT. It is, therefore, LEGAL.

Now we are done with the CC portion of the topic. Happy now?

You've posted no links. Nice attempt at deflection. Pathetic.

Post a link to the law that IL would have prosecuted under after the law which was overturned.

Do you deny IL residents had CC permits from other states before the ruling?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You've posted no links. Nice attempt at deflection. Pathetic.

You say you wanted to "clear up" the CC thing before discussing the crime reduction.

I have posted the ruling that overturned the law under which IL prosecuted people for CC. You have not posted a link to the law that would have made it illegal to CC after the 7th Circuit Ruling.

Absent such a law, there can be no prosecution. Hence, it is LEGAL to carry concealed. Still waiting Spooky. I like your idea of clearing this up first. Why don't you?

Even the AG opinin that she would not prosecute under an unconstitutional law IF a resident had a non resident CC permit is nothing but political BS.