Concealed Carry in Illinois

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I'd like someone else here to give me their take on the following. This is the demographics for Arizona:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/04000.html

And here is Vermont's:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/50000.html

Both states have very lenient CC laws, yet differ widely in violent crime and murder rate. They also have vastly different demographics.

Now if we add Alaska to the mix, it becomes even more confusing.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/02000.html

I'll take a stab and say given that Vermont has roughly 6 million people less than Arizona. Meaning, you have more folks living in close proximity, this might have an effect on the murder rate. Also Vermont has a very low unemployment rate and less folks living in poverty.

I don't know what's the living conditions for AK so I can't speak on it.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I'll take a stab and say given that Vermont has roughly 6 million people less than Arizona. Meaning, you have more folks living in close proximity, this might have an effect on the murder rate. Also Vermont has a very low unemployment rate and less folks living in poverty.

I don't know what's the living conditions for AK so I can't speak on it.

Population density in Vermont is 67.9 people per square mile. In Arizona, it's 56.3 and in Alaska it's 1.2. Vermont has the highest population density of these three examples.

Now let's look at the percentage of people living under the poverty level from 2008-2012. In Vermont, it's 11.6%, Alaska 9.6% and Arizona, 17.2%.

This isn't making sense either. Vermont is largely white, Arizona has a higher than average Latino/Hispanic population and Alaska has a higher percentage of American Indian and Alaska Natives, which I'm guessing are commonly referred to as Eskimos? In all three of the states blacks are a far smaller percentage than the overall percentage of US population.

Something else must be missing. It's not CC since all examples are quite similar. Arizona has the highest poverty level and the most minorities. Vermont has the least minorities, yet is above average in poverty level and 95% white. Alaska is even better with even less of it's people living under the poverty level and a small black and Hispanic/Latino population. Are the Eskimos responsible for the higher than average crime rate?

It looks like this isn't a simple issue. Do we need to dig deeper?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Population density in Vermont is 67.9 people per square mile. In Arizona, it's 56.3 and in Alaska it's 1.2. Vermont has the highest population density of these three examples.

Now let's look at the percentage of people living under the poverty level from 2008-2012. In Vermont, it's 11.6%, Alaska 9.6% and Arizona, 17.2%.

This isn't making sense either. Vermont is largely white, Arizona has a higher than average Latino/Hispanic population and Alaska has a higher percentage of American Indian and Alaska Natives, which I'm guessing are commonly referred to as Eskimos? In all three of the states blacks are a far smaller percentage than the overall percentage of US population.

Something else must be missing. It's not CC since all examples are quite similar. Arizona has the highest poverty level and the most minorities. Vermont has the least minorities, yet is above average in poverty level and 95% white. Alaska is even better with even less of it's people living under the poverty level and a small black and Hispanic/Latino population. Are the Eskimos responsible for the higher than average crime rate?

It looks like this isn't a simple issue. Do we need to dig deeper?

That's what I've been trying to say since I've been here. There are a myriad of issues that should be considered before just saying CC can reduce crime.

Depends on if the Eskimos are living in poverty. That would be my guess.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

That's what I've been trying to say since I've been here. There are a myriad of issues that should be considered before just saying CC can reduce crime.

Depends on if the Eskimos are living in poverty. That would be my guess.

It will take a much more in depth look at things to find out why the variations exist. Each group needs to be looked at in terms of poverty and probably some other things as well. I'm going to do a little bit of research when I have a bit of time. It is a very complicated subject, that's for sure. I for one don't think there are any simple or quick solutions.

And again, I would personally appreciate that we keep this on topic so it stays open. Thank you.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

It will take a much more in depth look at things to find out why the variations exist. Each group needs to be looked at in terms of poverty and probably some other things as well. I'm going to do a little bit of research when I have a bit of time. It is a very complicated subject, that's for sure. I for one don't think there are any simple or quick solutions.

And again, I would personally appreciate that we keep this on topic so it stays open. Thank you.

I'm interested as well. I'll do some homework tonight, then I might take a peek and see what I can unearth.

[GandD 5,966]

0 concealed carry permits were issued by or allowed in Illinois during or before 2013.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

0 concealed carry permits were issued by or allowed in Illinois during or before 2013.

Link it or it didn't happen.

[GandD 5,966]

Link it or it didn't happen.

No prob Marvo:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/479382-concealed-carry-in-illinois/?p=6810954

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

No prob Marvo:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/479382-concealed-carry-in-illinois/?p=6810954

Drat! Foiled again...

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

That's what I've been trying to say since I've been here. There are a myriad of issues that should be considered before just saying CC can reduce crime.

Depends on if the Eskimos are living in poverty. That would be my guess.

They don't much like to be called Eskimos in Canada, just FYSA. They prefer Inuit. But in AK, Eskimo seems to be the preferred term, over all. But there are other Native Alaskans that are not Eskimos at all, like the Aleut (Unangan).

All Inuit are Eskimos, but not all Eskimos are Inuit, get it? Canada has Inuits, Alaska has Inuit and Yupik, and Russia mostly has Yupik. Kinda off topic, but just a little I learned about AK.

The Eskimos in AK do indeed live in poverty, in many cases. But the state and federal levels have grants that pay for a lot for them. Free housing is one of them. Living off the land in northern AK, the natives can't make enough to live, unless they truly live off the land in the wild. Milk can cost $13 per gallon up north. Flying up north? Helicopters land at GPS points, shut down, and pump fuel out of 55 gal barrels then continue on their way. Heating oil runs near $4 per gallon most months, and it's HELLA expensive to heat a house in the winter (I have had low months around $600, highs of over $1300).

Poverty? Yes. But very subsidized. I can fish and catch 30 salmon per year. Natives? Varies, but over 200 per adult. But (hypothetical here) if one were to be suspected catching more, a blind eye would be turned. For some, that is their main source of income.

But to get back to topic, and I have brought it up before... why the high crime rate? Spooky said Arizona was most liberal, not sure why (Spookster?). Ak has no BG check, no permit to buy, they DO have a permit to carry, but it's not required. ANYONE can carry open or concealed. Some stores in the interior have signs on the door forbidding guns, but for the most part, that is blown off. I have seen people packing many times in them.

If you want to see some entertainment, spend a few nights one week on the Fairbanks Craigslist. Rants n Raves, whatever the hook-up one is... just read. Violence abounds. Women beating their men with skillets, men knocking themselves or women around.... it happens a lot. Is it the months of darkness? IDK. In December, expect 3 hours or less of sunlight. But people kill each other in the summer, when you can walk out of a club at 2 a.m. and have to wear sunglasses.

Maybe it's the wildness of the state, the very wilderness. Kinda like it was 100+ years ago in the lower 48. I am simply postulating. Marijuana has been "legal" there for many years. Not really, but yeah it is. Rough, wild, beautiful place, is Alaska.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

They don't much like to be called Eskimos in Canada, just FYSA. They prefer Inuit. But in AK, Eskimo seems to be the preferred term, over all. But there are other Native Alaskans that are not Eskimos at all, like the Aleut (Unangan).

All Inuit are Eskimos, but not all Eskimos are Inuit, get it? Canada has Inuits, Alaska has Inuit and Yupik, and Russia mostly has Yupik. Kinda off topic, but just a little I learned about AK.

The Eskimos in AK do indeed live in poverty, in many cases. But the state and federal levels have grants that pay for a lot for them. Free housing is one of them. Living off the land in northern AK, the natives can't make enough to live, unless they truly live off the land in the wild. Milk can cost $13 per gallon up north. Flying up north? Helicopters land at GPS points, shut down, and pump fuel out of 55 gal barrels then continue on their way. Heating oil runs near $4 per gallon most months, and it's HELLA expensive to heat a house in the winter (I have had low months around $600, highs of over $1300).

Poverty? Yes. But very subsidized. I can fish and catch 30 salmon per year. Natives? Varies, but over 200 per adult. But (hypothetical here) if one were to be suspected catching more, a blind eye would be turned. For some, that is their main source of income.

But to get back to topic, and I have brought it up before... why the high crime rate? Spooky said Arizona was most liberal, not sure why (Spookster?). Ak has no BG check, no permit to buy, they DO have a permit to carry, but it's not required. ANYONE can carry open or concealed. Some stores in the interior have signs on the door forbidding guns, but for the most part, that is blown off. I have seen people packing many times in them.

If you want to see some entertainment, spend a few nights one week on the Fairbanks Craigslist. Rants n Raves, whatever the hook-up one is... just read. Violence abounds. Women beating their men with skillets, men knocking themselves or women around.... it happens a lot. Is it the months of darkness? IDK. In December, expect 3 hours or less of sunlight. But people kill each other in the summer, when you can walk out of a club at 2 a.m. and have to wear sunglasses.

Maybe it's the wildness of the state, the very wilderness. Kinda like it was 100+ years ago in the lower 48. I am simply postulating. Marijuana has been "legal" there for many years. Not really, but yeah it is. Rough, wild, beautiful place, is Alaska.

I used this for ranking states on ease of CC and gun laws.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/03/14/ga-ranks-the-best-states-for-gun-owners-in-2013/

There are others but this one was fairly recent, just about a year ago. They have a rating system which is explained. Arizona, Alaska and Vermont are all ranked almost the same. Do you think alcohol abuse has anything to do with the problem? I remember reading years back about Iceland having a high rate of alcholism due to the climate and long periods of darkness. There has to be some combination that contributes to Alaska's higher crime rate. Maybe part of it is that it's more like the Old West was in the lower 48. Good to hear your insight and experience on it.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

I'm sure alcohol plays a part. DC is the city in the US with the highest usage of alcohol, and they have a pretty high crime rate, right?

Alaska has a lot of dry towns/boroughs, but in spite of that, people smuggle alcohol in. Heck, in some places, "excessive quantities" of sugar or yeast can get you arrested. Native Americans historically have a problem with alcohol intolerance.

Rape is high in AK and SD: http://www.businessinsider.com/why-does-alaska-have-such-a-high-rate-rape-2013-9

"Alaska does not share many characteristics with other violent states. It has the second-highest median household income in the country, as well as the fourth-lowest poverty rate. Nevertheless, Alaska had the nation’s highest rate of aggravated assault by a large margin last year, with more than 464 incidents per 100,000 people. There were also more than 58 reported forcible rapes per 100,000 people in 2011, the second-highest rate for such crimes in the nation, but down from 73.3 reported cases per 100,000 in 2010."

Source: http://247wallst.com/special-report/2012/10/31/americas-most-violent-states/3/%C2'>

Marijuana use:

1. Alaska (11.53%)

2. Vermont (10.83%)

3. Rhode Island (9.98%)

4. Maine (9.85%)

5. Colorado (9.82%)

Cocaine:

1. Rhode Island (3.87%)

2. Colorado (3.23%)

3. Alaska (3.00%)

4. Vermont (2.99%)

5. South Carolina (2.77%)

Alcohol dependence or abuse:

1. Montana (9.86%)

2. South Dakota (9.79%)

3. Minnesota (9.21%)

4. Colorado (9.03%)

5. New Mexico (8.68%)

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Bump. Just in case anyone wants to confess.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Wish we had some links.

Bump. Just in case anyone wants to confess.

[GandD 5,966]

When people are wrong or lie, they should admit it.