Is it okay to go from wearing hijab to not wearing hijab?

[amal 4]

I copied and pasted from islamicity.com ... I don't know if they use different versions or not.....

[peezey 0]

I'm not arguing, just posting another translation with a footnote so everyone can see where confusion sets in.

Dress Code for Believers*

[24:30] Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes (and not stare at the women), and to maintain their chastity. This is purer for them. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything they do.

[24:31] And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, the male servants or employees whose sexual drive has been nullified, or the children who have not reached puberty. They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to GOD, O you believers, that you may succeed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*24:30-31 Dressing modestly, therefore, is a trait of the believing men and women. The minimum requirements for a woman's dress is to lengthen her garment (33:59) and to cover her chest. Tyrannical Arab traditions have given a false impression that a woman must be covered from head to toe; such is not a Quranic or Islamic dress.

and then from the site, an essay on dress code. I don't know anything about this site, just posting different viewpoints.

"Quran is very clear about the dress code for the believers. Innovations and fabrication intorduced Hijab (veil) to Islam (submission.) Hijab (veil) is a traditional, not religious head cover that dates back to ancient civilizations, and is not supported or advocated by the Quran."

http://www.submission.org/dress.html

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Submission.org is considered to be a very liberal site.

[peezey 0]

yeah, I did get that impression after reading a few more things. Although I prefer finding something like this to read over salafi nonsense.

[amal 4]

I guess it brings truth to the statement that if one quote is given, each person who reads it will interpret it in their own way. Maybe I'm blind or just plain stupid but I think the first verse I posted (24:31) clearly says that a woman should cover. Other people don't see that and definitely disagree with me and I don't think they have to agree with me. It is all in the way a person interprets it. Either way is fine as long as they do what they feel in their hearts is the right thing to do.

[melly 0]

I guess it brings truth to the statement that if one quote is given, each person who reads it will interpret it in their own way. Maybe I'm blind or just plain stupid but I think the first verse I posted (24:31) clearly says that a woman should cover. Other people don't see that and definitely disagree with me and I don't think they have to agree with me. It is all in the way a person interprets it. Either way is fine as long as they do what they feel in their hearts is the right thing to do.

Amal, I've never seen the verse translated the way that you posted. Maybe that's the confusion. It seems like verse you quoted clearly states it, but I've never in all my reading seen it translated that way before.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Because hijab is not prescribed as a manner of dress in the Quran, it is one of those things that each person who is not living in an area where dress is mandated can interpret for themselves. That doesn't mean that there are no reprecussions when you don't conform to what is prescribed by your faith community. Most adherents to Islam, or any faith, for that matter, don't believe that God allows everyone to interpret everything the way their heart feels. Still, your acts and beliefs are your own responsibility, whether they are in line with your ummah or not.

[Bosco 1]

I guess it brings truth to the statement that if one quote is given, each person who reads it will interpret it in their own way. Maybe I'm blind or just plain stupid but I think the first verse I posted (24:31) clearly says that a woman should cover. Other people don't see that and definitely disagree with me and I don't think they have to agree with me. It is all in the way a person interprets it. Either way is fine as long as they do what they feel in their hearts is the right thing to do.

Amal, I've never seen the verse translated the way that you posted. Maybe that's the confusion. It seems like verse you quoted clearly states it, but I've never in all my reading seen it translated that way before.

Nor have I, and even if one were to accept that as a legitimate translation of khimar (I would not), drawing a head covering over the a bosom certainly doesn't mean revealing nothing but the eyes, as Amal originally stated.

[amal 4]

I guess it brings truth to the statement that if one quote is given, each person who reads it will interpret it in their own way. Maybe I'm blind or just plain stupid but I think the first verse I posted (24:31) clearly says that a woman should cover. Other people don't see that and definitely disagree with me and I don't think they have to agree with me. It is all in the way a person interprets it. Either way is fine as long as they do what they feel in their hearts is the right thing to do.

Amal, I've never seen the verse translated the way that you posted. Maybe that's the confusion. It seems like verse you quoted clearly states it, but I've never in all my reading seen it translated that way before.

Nor have I, and even if one were to accept that as a legitimate translation of khimar (I would not), drawing a head covering over the a bosom certainly doesn't mean revealing nothing but the eyes, as Amal originally stated.

I originally stated that I had read that and I also stated later that I wasn't able to find where I had read that. I never said that my first statement meant one had to cover all but the eyes...it was a statement to show that "i believe" the qura'an states a woman should cover. I think later on either melly or mbp posted the thing about the eyes and I thanked them for posting it since it was driving me crazy not being able to find it.

[amal 4]

I've been reading a book that someone here on the forums recommended to Doodlebug. Believing in Ourselves. It's a really great book and I'm not quite done but it's had so much information and insight into things, I'm really appreciating it.

The author does do a whole chapter on hijab and in it she mentions the three parts of Quran where it mentions about women covering. I thought I would post the translation as she has it in her book, so people could more easily reference it.

And say to the believing women

That they should lower

Thier gaze and guard

Their modesty; that they

Should not display their

Beauty and ornaments except

What (must ordinarily) appear

Thereof; that they should

Draw their veils over

Their bosoms and not display

Their beauty except

To their husbands, their fathers,

Their husbands' fathers, their sons,

Their husbands' sons,

Their brothers or their brothers' sons,

Or their sisters' sons,

Or their women, or the slaves

Whom their right hands

Possess, or male servants

Free of physical needs,

Or small children who

Have no sense of the shame

of sex (24:31)

O Prophet! Tell

Thy wives and daughers,

And the believing women,

That they should cast

Their outer garments over

Their persons (when abroad):

That is most convenient,

That they should be known

(As such) and not molested.

And God is Oft-Forgiving,

Most Merciful (33:59)

Such elderly women as are

Past the prospect of marriage,

There is no blame on them

If they lay aside

Their (outer) garments, provided

They make not a wanton display

Of their beauty: but

It is best for them

To be modest: And God

Is One Who sees and knows

All things (24:60)

When talking to my fiance about it, as we do from time to time, I mentioned that those passages don't specifically say anything about covering the head, and he said that it is the Prophet who said about covering the hair in a hadith. i don't know which one offhand, but it would be great if someone has a reference to it. I'd really like to read it.

As to the subject in general, is it okay to go from wearing hijab to not wearing hijab? In my mind, it's between the woman and God. No one else.

Amal I have not read the Quran but can you post where it says to cover everything except for your eyes? I am interested in seeing that. I don't see why there would be such a debate if it clearly states to cover a woman's body everywhere except for her eyes.

This would also mean a woman having to wear gloves.

24:31 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and to be mindful of their chastity, and not to display their charms [in public] beyond what may [decently] be apparent thereof; [37] hence, let them draw their head-coverings over their bosoms. [38] And let them not display [more of] their charms to any but their husbands, or their fathers, or their husbands’ fathers, or their sons, or their husbands’ Sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their womenfolk, or those whom they rightfully possess, or such male attendants as are beyond all sexual desire, [39] or children that are as yet unaware of women’s nakedness; and let them not swing their legs [in walking] so as to draw attention to their hidden charms [40] And [always], O you believers - all of you - turn unto God in repentance, so that you might attain to a happy state! [41]

Waqul lilmuminati yaghdudna min absarihinna wayahfathna furoojahunna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa ma thahara minha walyadribna bikhumurihinna AAala juyoobihinna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa libuAAoolatihinna aw abaihinna aw abai buAAoolatihinna aw abnaihinna aw abnai buAAoolatihinna aw ikhwanihinna aw banee ikhwanihinna aw banee akhawatihinna aw nisaihinna aw ma malakat aymanuhunna awi alttabiAAeena ghayri olee alirbati mina alrrijali awi alttifli allatheena lam yathharoo AAala AAawrati alnnisai wala yadribna biarjulihinna liyuAAlama ma yukhfeena min zeenatihinna watooboo ila Allahi jameeAAan ayyuha almuminoona laAAallakum tuflihoona

وَقُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا لِبُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَائِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَاء بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَائِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَاء بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي أَخَوَاتِهِنَّ أَوْ نِسَائِهِنَّ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُنَّ أَوِ التَّابِعِينَ غَيْرِ أُوْلِي الْإِرْبَةِ مِنَ الرِّجَالِ أَوِ الطِّفْلِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يَظْهَرُوا عَلَى عَوْرَاتِ النِّسَاء وَلَا يَضْرِبْنَ بِأَرْجُلِهِنَّ لِيُعْلَمَ مَا يُخْفِينَ مِن زِينَتِهِنَّ وَتُوبُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا أَيُّهَا الْمُؤْمِنُونَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ (24:31)

Baset - Hussari - Minshawi

i think i bolded the right thing.... this is only 1 of the verses I read...there is another one but I have to find it

I have not given up ... I'm still trying to find the one that says about covering all but the eyes....... I can't quote anything coz that is just wrong unless it is quoted perfectly .. .. it is going to drive me nuts until I find it again.....

Are you sure you're thinking of something straight from the Quran, or just an interpretation you've read? I found this...

"The Noble Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:59

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)* all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

*the arabic word here is Jalabeeb (plural of Jalbaab), which is the loose outer garment that covers all a woman's body. It says here to use the Jalabeeb to cover all, and scholars say this means to use it to cover her head (agree upon by all scholars) and her face (agreed by many scholars, not all) and one or both eyes, in order for it to be known that she is a free woman and so not to be exposed to any harm. "f

first, sorry..it was jenn that posted what I was trying to find about the eyes...

second, I think what I posted and what melly posted were the same verse...and I interpret them both the same way

third, I got my quote from islamicity (of which I very much trust) and I didn't change any word. I cut and pasted it so as to not misquote anything

I included (with my initial post) the arabic transliteration AND original arabic script so that anyone could see it was not just some off the wall place I took the translation from. One of the qura'ans I have in my home is translated to english exactly as that which I posted so I'm very surprised that nobody has ever seen it translated that way. Either way I interpret both your (melly) and my post with the exact same meaning. As I said, it doesn't bother me if someone else understands it in a different way, and they are just fine to think i understand it incorrectly but my understanding is just that, my understanding. Also, once again, everybody is going to worship and do in a way they feel is the right way so as long as they feel they are doing the right thing, who am I to tell them they're wrong? Plenty of ppl don't cover and plenty of ppl do... Only God knows what he wants and we do the best we can with what we understand.

[amal 4]

I've been reading a book that someone here on the forums recommended to Doodlebug. Believing in Ourselves. It's a really great book and I'm not quite done but it's had so much information and insight into things, I'm really appreciating it.

The author does do a whole chapter on hijab and in it she mentions the three parts of Quran where it mentions about women covering. I thought I would post the translation as she has it in her book, so people could more easily reference it.

And say to the believing women

That they should lower

Thier gaze and guard

Their modesty; that they

Should not display their

Beauty and ornaments except

What (must ordinarily) appear

Thereof; that they should

Draw their veils over

Their bosoms and not display

Their beauty except

To their husbands, their fathers,

Their husbands' fathers, their sons,

Their husbands' sons,

Their brothers or their brothers' sons,

Or their sisters' sons,

Or their women, or the slaves

Whom their right hands

Possess, or male servants

Free of physical needs,

Or small children who

Have no sense of the shame

of sex (24:31)

O Prophet! Tell

Thy wives and daughers,

And the believing women,

That they should cast

Their outer garments over

Their persons (when abroad):

That is most convenient,

That they should be known

(As such) and not molested.

And God is Oft-Forgiving,

Most Merciful (33:59)

Such elderly women as are

Past the prospect of marriage,

There is no blame on them

If they lay aside

Their (outer) garments, provided

They make not a wanton display

Of their beauty: but

It is best for them

To be modest: And God

Is One Who sees and knows

All things (24:60)

When talking to my fiance about it, as we do from time to time, I mentioned that those passages don't specifically say anything about covering the head, and he said that it is the Prophet who said about covering the hair in a hadith. i don't know which one offhand, but it would be great if someone has a reference to it. I'd really like to read it.

As to the subject in general, is it okay to go from wearing hijab to not wearing hijab? In my mind, it's between the woman and God. No one else.

Amal I have not read the Quran but can you post where it says to cover everything except for your eyes? I am interested in seeing that. I don't see why there would be such a debate if it clearly states to cover a woman's body everywhere except for her eyes.

This would also mean a woman having to wear gloves.

24:31 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and to be mindful of their chastity, and not to display their charms [in public] beyond what may [decently] be apparent thereof; [37] hence, let them draw their head-coverings over their bosoms. [38] And let them not display [more of] their charms to any but their husbands, or their fathers, or their husbands’ fathers, or their sons, or their husbands’ Sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their womenfolk, or those whom they rightfully possess, or such male attendants as are beyond all sexual desire, [39] or children that are as yet unaware of women’s nakedness; and let them not swing their legs [in walking] so as to draw attention to their hidden charms [40] And [always], O you believers - all of you - turn unto God in repentance, so that you might attain to a happy state! [41]

Waqul lilmuminati yaghdudna min absarihinna wayahfathna furoojahunna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa ma thahara minha walyadribna bikhumurihinna AAala juyoobihinna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa libuAAoolatihinna aw abaihinna aw abai buAAoolatihinna aw abnaihinna aw abnai buAAoolatihinna aw ikhwanihinna aw banee ikhwanihinna aw banee akhawatihinna aw nisaihinna aw ma malakat aymanuhunna awi alttabiAAeena ghayri olee alirbati mina alrrijali awi alttifli allatheena lam yathharoo AAala AAawrati alnnisai wala yadribna biarjulihinna liyuAAlama ma yukhfeena min zeenatihinna watooboo ila Allahi jameeAAan ayyuha almuminoona laAAallakum tuflihoona

وَقُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا لِبُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَائِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَاء بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَائِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَاء بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي أَخَوَاتِهِنَّ أَوْ نِسَائِهِنَّ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُنَّ أَوِ التَّابِعِينَ غَيْرِ أُوْلِي الْإِرْبَةِ مِنَ الرِّجَالِ أَوِ الطِّفْلِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يَظْهَرُوا عَلَى عَوْرَاتِ النِّسَاء وَلَا يَضْرِبْنَ بِأَرْجُلِهِنَّ لِيُعْلَمَ مَا يُخْفِينَ مِن زِينَتِهِنَّ وَتُوبُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا أَيُّهَا الْمُؤْمِنُونَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ (24:31)

Baset - Hussari - Minshawi

i think i bolded the right thing.... this is only 1 of the verses I read...there is another one but I have to find it

I have not given up ... I'm still trying to find the one that says about covering all but the eyes....... I can't quote anything coz that is just wrong unless it is quoted perfectly .. .. it is going to drive me nuts until I find it again.....

Are you sure you're thinking of something straight from the Quran, or just an interpretation you've read? I found this...

"The Noble Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:59

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)* all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

*the arabic word here is Jalabeeb (plural of Jalbaab), which is the loose outer garment that covers all a woman's body. It says here to use the Jalabeeb to cover all, and scholars say this means to use it to cover her head (agree upon by all scholars) and her face (agreed by many scholars, not all) and one or both eyes, in order for it to be known that she is a free woman and so not to be exposed to any harm. "f

first, sorry..it was jenn that posted what I was trying to find about the eyes...

second, I think what I posted and what melly posted were the same verse...and I interpret them both the same way

third, I got my quote from islamicity (of which I very much trust) and I didn't change any word. I cut and pasted it so as to not misquote anything

I included (with my initial post) the arabic transliteration AND original arabic script so that anyone could see it was not just some off the wall place I took the translation from. One of the qura'ans I have in my home is translated to english exactly as that which I posted so I'm very surprised that nobody has ever seen it translated that way. Either way I interpret both your (melly) and my post with the exact same meaning. As I said, it doesn't bother me if someone else understands it in a different way, and they are just fine to think i understand it incorrectly but my understanding is just that, my understanding. Also, once again, everybody is going to worship and do in a way they feel is the right way so as long as they feel they are doing the right thing, who am I to tell them they're wrong? Plenty of ppl don't cover and plenty of ppl do... Only God knows what he wants and we do the best we can with what we understand.

[Bosco 1]

I guess it brings truth to the statement that if one quote is given, each person who reads it will interpret it in their own way. Maybe I'm blind or just plain stupid but I think the first verse I posted (24:31) clearly says that a woman should cover. Other people don't see that and definitely disagree with me and I don't think they have to agree with me. It is all in the way a person interprets it. Either way is fine as long as they do what they feel in their hearts is the right thing to do.

Amal, I've never seen the verse translated the way that you posted. Maybe that's the confusion. It seems like verse you quoted clearly states it, but I've never in all my reading seen it translated that way before.

Nor have I, and even if one were to accept that as a legitimate translation of khimar (I would not), drawing a head covering over the a bosom certainly doesn't mean revealing nothing but the eyes, as Amal originally stated.

I originally stated that I had read that and I also stated later that I wasn't able to find where I had read that. I never said that my first statement meant one had to cover all but the eyes...it was a statement to show that "i believe" the qura'an states a woman should cover. I think later on either melly or mbp posted the thing about the eyes and I thanked them for posting it since it was driving me crazy not being able to find it.

Amal,

Your original statement was

I have heard ppl say that it isn't in the Qura'an...but when I read Qur'an I read that a woman is supposed to cover all but her eyes... Maybe that was just my interpretation of it though.

.

My point is that I think this is including face and hands goes beyond any reasonable interpretation of what is said in the the Qur'an.

Rebecca

[amal 4]

I explained my original statement about the eyes via jenns post since she found it before me.

There is also a part that says she should cover all but the palms of her hands or something to that effect but I don't feel like searching for it.

When I said "my original post" I meant the post with the Qura'an quote so I apologize for the misunderstanding.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

There is also a part that says she should cover all but the palms of her hands or something to that effect but I don't feel like searching for it.

That's from the ahadith that is weak and not binding.

Each of us come to faith for different reasons. I'm convinced that a lot of converts see their conversion as a form of repentance from their prior relatively loose lifestyles and views, and thus, choose the strictest way to interpret ayat in order to prove to themselves that they are not the same person that they were before conversion; to be more Muslim than longtime Muslims. They go for the strictest covering, polygyny, trying to justify gaps in the Quran with ahadith (no one should tackle ahadith before they understand the Quran), name changing, etc. to shed their old identity for a totally new one. They are always interesting to watch.

[peezey 0]

I guess it brings truth to the statement that if one quote is given, each person who reads it will interpret it in their own way. Maybe I'm blind or just plain stupid but I think the first verse I posted (24:31) clearly says that a woman should cover. Other people don't see that and definitely disagree with me and I don't think they have to agree with me. It is all in the way a person interprets it. Either way is fine as long as they do what they feel in their hearts is the right thing to do.

Amal, you are comparing apples and oranges. The problem is not the interpretation of the meaning of the surah(s), the problem is with people interpreting the actual original Arabic incorrectly, either because they are not an expert or they are doing so to suit their needs/causes.