Dealing with in-laws...is honesty the best policy?

[hobbit 10]

Re your questions on whether your SIL's behavior is normal in-law behavior - there's no such thing as normal behavior in families - it can depend a little on cultural norms (I think that might be what you are asking) and it depends mostly on the individual person.

I'm British but from the last seven years living in the US I would say that flakiness and not remembering commitments, or remembering to eat food prepared by your relatives is not a cultural norm in the US. People over here are generally very polite and very good at fulfilling commitments.

But you have to take different people's personalities into account.

For you, unless your husband has a particular opinion on this, it's too early for you to tell whether your SIL's behavior (her flaky memory over commitments etc) is just how she is or whether it's about you.

Time will tell.

Until then, don't rely on her, always have a plan B.

But my advice for now is not to confront her, or snub her, or fall out over this. It just might be the way she is built and so eventually you might just learn to deal with it and not take it personally.

If over time you observe that this behavior is just targeted to you, well then you can make a decision how to respond. But don't burn any bridges before you are sure.

Thanks Lynne. I've always thought that she and I had a really good relationship, and so these recent changes she's portraying leave me puzzled. I noticed them after I came back to her place a second time after my husband left, and am wondering if the combination of me staying there and then leaving has made her feel resentful or slighted in any way. I've spoken to my husband about this, and he just chalks it up to menopause, but she's past that for some years now! His other brotherly explanation about his sister was "She's just being weird with a capital W". She's the only sibling my husband has, and was the one I counted on to check on him at home while he was knocked out by a bug and wouldn't answer the phone (no other family in AZ). I would never have thought of her as having any flaky tendencies. I'd agree that perhaps it's too early to tell, even though I've known her since 2011. If not for the fact that I moved in with them, I would probably not have encountered her forgetting my food or our breakfast plans. She did swing by my place today and she and I attended tonight's class together. I'm not so sure about next week since she needs to get her registration ironed out so they can let her attend the rest of the classes, but my husband will also be back by then so hopefully I'd feel a lot better.

[Jon York 156]

Maybe since you moved out your SIL started thinking that maybe you don't like her. So she thought she would be polite and give you an "out" - in case you didn't actually want to go to the class with her. So she offered the suggestion of taking the cab so if you hadn't really wanted to take the class with her you could have easily said, "Oh yes, a cab - that's a good idea, maybe I'll do that."

You didn't say (I don't think) what reason you gave her for moving back home, so it's a little hard to tell what she may have felt like afterwards.

Something like what she did suggesting the cab - can easily have two opposite explanations, and a possible third innocuous one (that she really forgot). So I really wouldn't read too much into it at this point. You need more information... meaning as you spend more time with them eventually it will became clear which way she meant it. Or if she just truly forgot. But I wouldn't jump to any conclusions at this point or form any hard lasting impressions - until you have more information - which will come naturally with time.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Jon York

[hobbit 10]

Maybe since you moved out your SIL started thinking that maybe you don't like her. So she thought she would be polite and give you an "out" - in case you didn't actually want to go to the class with her. So she offered the suggestion of taking the cab so if you hadn't really wanted to take the class with her you could have easily said, "Oh yes, a cab - that's a good idea, maybe I'll do that."

You didn't say (I don't think) what reason you gave her for moving back home, so it's a little hard to tell what she may have felt like afterwards.

Something like what she did suggesting the cab - can easily have two opposite explanations, and a possible third innocuous one (that she really forgot). So I really wouldn't read too much into it at this point. You need more information... meaning as you spend more time with them eventually it will became clear which way she meant it. Or if she just truly forgot. But I wouldn't jump to any conclusions at this point or form any hard lasting impressions - until you have more information - which will come naturally with time.

Well ok, my diplomatic reason to move back home was to take driver's ed, but the driving school was not willing to pick me up from her place since the transport fees are already incorporated into the package. So it made sense to move back, and she seemed to buy it. Unfortunately I don't start my first class until March because it's booked up, so I made the mistake of telling her that my second lesson will be next Friday. The whole idea for me coming back was that she didn't have to drive me back and forth for two weeks. So I'm not sure my if white lie could be contributing to her thinking, "Oh it wouldn't have required a lot of driving back and forth after all"...Anyway, even if she does think that maybe I don't like her, how can this explain why she conveniently forgot about my baked cod and her veiled refusal to eat anything I make or bring back? I prepared food for her and her husband, does that not show something (this was before I concocted the driver's ed story)? I still don't understand the selective amnesia at all- not eating the food I specially prepared for the both of them is rude, and I'm beginning to take offense

Edited February 13, 2014 by hobbit

[Ontarkie 14,226]

Don't take offence, I know a lot off ppl who have food issues. Either they are picky eaters, or don't like foods made by others.

i tend to only eat certain foods for both the reasons above, I'm grateful when someone does things for me though. Most of my friends know my food issues so it's not a problem for me, but maybe for your sister-in-law there is more then meets the eye. Do you know if they even like fish? Not everyone feels like you must eat everything. I would feel that you doing that was pushy if you didn't even ask what they wanted.

[hobbit 10]

Yes, she likes fish and she's even mentioned that her husband likes cod. They have no food issues when they come over for celebrations and they eat whatever my husband treats them to. I know they like pizza so I bought them a nice freshly-baked sausage one, thinking we could all share but no one touched it except for me. It's not like my SIL is anything like Aziza from 90-day Fiance! They have no allergies or dietary taboos, so I don't understand why they couldn't even try a bite.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Yes, she likes fish and she's even mentioned that her husband likes cod. They have no food issues when they come over for celebrations and they eat whatever my husband treats them to. I know they like pizza so I bought them a nice freshly-baked sausage one, thinking we could all share but no one touched it except for me. It's not like my SIL is anything like Aziza from 90-day Fiance! They have no allergies or dietary taboos, so I don't understand why they couldn't even try a bite.

I assure you that the reason is not to slight you or offend you. That's just not an American thing to do.

[Merrytooth 5,748]

Hopefully you will feel better to know that you are not the only one dealing with the same issue here. Your SIL might just be weird, nothing personal against you.

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20131004034646AAQflMP

[Jon York 156]

Merrytooth, that link I don't think is exactly the same - because that person said their SIL never eats their food and is a very fussy eater (as am I). But Hobbit said SIL eats their food on holidays without any problem - and isn't a fussy eater.

Hobbit, wow! That was a great reason you gave her for leaving! Good job!

But seriously - don't let this food thing get under your skin. It's crazy things like that that make people start disliking each other! And it is really probably completely meaningless.

You said the day you brought fresh pizza home they were already heating up frozen pizza. So they probably just wanted to eat that since they had already taken it out and heated it up. The cod, I don't know. Maybe they just haven't been in the mood for it lately.

Unlike your SIL, I am a fussy eater, and nothing annoys me more than people forming conclusions about what I think about them based on what I do with their food! It's seriously the worst thing in the world. Because what I think about their food has no relation whatsoever to what I think about them!

Several years ago I started dating this girl. Things were going great the first few weeks. One day we were out near her parents' home around 10:00 in the morning. So she said, let's stop in and see them. (I had already met them one time before so it wasn't a huge deal). This drop-in was totally unplanned.

When we got there her wonderful mom asked if I wanted some kind of cake. Well, I didn't. Because it had something squishy inside and I despise hidden squishy things in cakes! So I thanked her profusely but told her I had just eaten breakfast and just didn't have room for it. I wasn't going to tell her I hated it - because that would have been rude! And do you know this girl almost broke up with me afterwards because of that! She said it was so rude that I wouldn't eat her mother's cake.

Well, that's her perception. For me, it wasn't meant in a rude way at all. I adored her mom and really appreciated her offering something - even though I didn't want it. I knew it was a very nice gesture and appreciated it as such. But I can't control how my body was made and what it likes and dislikes in food. I would have thrown up if I had eaten that cake! So in fact, it would have been more rude to have accepted it - because I would have thrown up on their floor! And there was nothing wrong with the cake. It's just me - I know.

Anyway, I know that's not exactly analogous to your sister in law, because she likes the food you brought. But I'm telling you - it's probably something else just as innocent. Like they really appreciated the gesture you made, but they just never got around to eating it because it wasn't high on their priority list. I don't know why. But seriously, if you let this cause you to start having negative feelings towards her - it's just not going to be worth it.

If you think maybe she doesn't like you - just give it some more time. If she genuinely doesn't like you, that will come to light soon enough. And if she does like you - that will become more clear with time as well. But if you jump in now, assuming already that she doesn't, then you'll respond to her in ways that will make her dislike you - when probably she doesn't right now.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Jon York

[hobbit 10]

Merrytooth, that link I don't think is exactly the same - because that person said their SIL never eats their food and is a very fussy eater (as am I). But Hobbit said SIL eats their food on holidays without any problem - and isn't a fussy eater.

Hobbit, wow! That was a great reason you gave her for leaving! Good job!

But seriously - don't let this food thing get under your skin. It's crazy things like that that make people start disliking each other! And it is really probably completely meaningless.

You said the day you brought fresh pizza home they were already heating up frozen pizza. So they probably just wanted to eat that since they had already taken it out and heated it up. The cod, I don't know. Maybe they just haven't been in the mood for it lately.

Unlike your SIL, I am a fussy eater, and nothing annoys me more than people forming conclusions about what I think about them based on what I do with their food! It's seriously the worst thing in the world. Because what I think about their food has no relation whatsoever to what I think about them!

Several years ago I started dating this girl. Things were going great the first few weeks. One day we were out near her parents' home around 10:00 in the morning. So she said, let's stop in and see them. (I had already met them one time before so it wasn't a huge deal). This drop-in was totally unplanned.

When we got there her wonderful mom asked if I wanted some kind of cake. Well, I didn't. Because it had something squishy inside and I despise hidden squishy things in cakes! So I thanked her profusely but told her I had just eaten breakfast and just didn't have room for it. I wasn't going to tell her I hated it - because that would have been rude! And do you know this girl almost broke up with me afterwards because of that! She said it was so rude that I wouldn't eat her mother's cake.

Well, that's her perception. For me, it wasn't meant in a rude way at all. I adored her mom and really appreciated her offering something - even though I didn't want it. I knew it was a very nice gesture and appreciated it as such. But I can't control how my body was made and what it likes and dislikes in food. I would have thrown up if I had eaten that cake! So in fact, it would have been more rude to have accepted it - because I would have thrown up on their floor! And there was nothing wrong with the cake. It's just me - I know.

Anyway, I know that's not exactly analogous to your sister in law, because she likes the food you brought. But I'm telling you - it's probably something else just as innocent. Like they really appreciated the gesture you made, but they just never got around to eating it because it wasn't high on their priority list. I don't know why. But seriously, if you let this cause you to start having negative feelings towards her - it's just not going to be worth it.

If you think maybe she doesn't like you - just give it some more time. If she genuinely doesn't like you, that will come to light soon enough. And if she does like you - that will become more clear with time as well. But if you jump in now, assuming already that she doesn't, then you'll respond to her in ways that will make her dislike you - when probably she doesn't right now.

Hi Jon York,

Glad you think my excuse was feasible! I think I'm a little anxious over these seemingly minor details because I know we will be spending more time with them to come- we will vacation for 4 days in NY in April and will be sharing a two-bedroom suite. My husband generously sponsored them to come with us since it's where he and his sister were born and raised. 4 days doesn't sound like a long time, but when you're on a trip... To top it all off, she still calls my husband a jerk for not taking out the cost of a new washer and dryer out of their rent (my in-laws rent from my husband), and thinks his problem is that "he's turned into an elitist". Even when I'm grocery-shopping with my sister-in-law, and I'm looking for chicken broth, she'd point out "But that's organic." So while I've always felt that she likes me, it's also based on a lot of impression management in terms of what I allow myself to say and do in front of her (like agreeing to browse at Goodwill together and praising Wafflehouse lol). I have no idea where I'm going with this, but I just thought of painting the dynamics a little more to clarify my situation.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I don't get this wafflehouse thing. Did you ask her "Would you like to go to Wafflehouse tomorrow?" or did you say "do you want to go out?"

If you said the former, then when she says "what?" you can say, "that was the plan."

If you said the later, why?

It just seems like a lot of strange miscommunication, to me. Managing expectations is a good skill.

Why would she make a comment about chicken broth? Is because she is paying for it? If her budget is tight, maybe she can't afford organic broth. If you are paying for it, why is she making comments?

Edited February 14, 2014 by Harpa Timsah

[hobbit 10]

I don't get this wafflehouse thing. Did you ask her "Would you like to go to Wafflehouse tomorrow?" or did you say "do you want to go out?"

If you said the former, then when she says "what?" you can say, "that was the plan."

If you said the later, why?

It just seems like a lot of strange miscommunication, to me. Managing expectations is a good skill.

Why would she make a comment about chicken broth? Is because she is paying for it? If her budget is tight, maybe she can't afford organic broth. If you are paying for it, why is she making comments?

I asked the former. In fact, she clarified it the night before by asking what I wanted to eat there, and I said the hashbrowns. It wasn't as if I just mentioned it and she nodded- she acknowledged it which was why I was surprised when she asked, "Oh you want to go to Wafflehouse?" the next morning. She has an excellent memory, so I don't consider her to be a forgetful person.

From what I've seen, my SIL is someone who has very strong opinions about her likes and dislikes, and judges people along those lines as well. In fact, one of the questions she first asked my then-boyfriend, now-husband about me was if I liked to dress up. And he bemoans, "No, she's a shirt and jeans girl" to which she remarks, "Oh good, so she's not prissy." She's not a negative person per se, but she dismisses what we like as "fufu" eg. Downton Abbey, eating at our favourite Italian restaurant, watching a play etc. So I reckon that she thinks of 'organic' as being in the same category. It doesn't matter that I was paying for my own groceries. Not that she was monitoring me, since I tossed in organic tofu anyway, but just the knowledge of how judgmental she is over these differences in taste makes me feel constrained. So even though people have said my initial post sounded snobbish, I feel like I'm the one who has to appear to like what she likes in order to be liked (by her).

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

If you are paying for the groceries, then I would say something to her like, "I would appreciate it if you wouldn't make comments about what food I buy. Thank you."

To the point, not dramatic, plain and straightforward.

And when she said "What? you want to go to the wafflehouse?" I would have said, "Yes, just like we discussed yesterday." YMMV.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Harpa Timsah

[Jon York 156]

I asked the former. In fact, she clarified it the night before by asking what I wanted to eat there, and I said the hashbrowns. It wasn't as if I just mentioned it and she nodded- she acknowledged it which was why I was surprised when she asked, "Oh you want to go to Wafflehouse?" the next morning. She has an excellent memory, so I don't consider her to be a forgetful person.

From what I've seen, my SIL is someone who has very strong opinions about her likes and dislikes, and judges people along those lines as well. In fact, one of the questions she first asked my then-boyfriend, now-husband about me was if I liked to dress up. And he bemoans, "No, she's a shirt and jeans girl" to which she remarks, "Oh good, so she's not prissy." She's not a negative person per se, but she dismisses what we like as "fufu" eg. Downton Abbey, eating at our favourite Italian restaurant, watching a play etc. So I reckon that she thinks of 'organic' as being in the same category. It doesn't matter that I was paying for my own groceries. Not that she was monitoring me, since I tossed in organic tofu anyway, but just the knowledge of how judgmental she is over these differences in taste makes me feel constrained. So even though people have said my initial post sounded snobbish, I feel like I'm the one who has to appear to like what she likes in order to be liked (by her).

Ah, I think I see what's going on now. There are many different cultures in America. There's the tofu loving, organic loving, play loving, ballet loving crowd, who usually look down upon those who don't love those kinds of things. And then there's the crowd who hates those things and looks down on those who love them as elitists.

It's a shame that your SIL can't just accept that there are these superficial differences between you two. She clearly thought you didn't care about those kinds of things when your husband told her you're a shirt and jeans girl. When she said, "Oh good, she's not prissy" - that's what she was talking about! "Shirt and jeans" said to her that you had a certain down-to-earthness and genuineness that she now doesn't think you have.

Unfortunately for you, she's stereotyping you based on your likes and dislikes. She stereotyped you positively when she heard you're a shirt & jeans girl. And now she's stereotyping you negatively based on the kinds of foods you like (among other things).

I'm probably more like her in my tastes. I don't care about organic foods (except for milk which tastes so delicious)! There is a stereotype in this country about people who like those kinds of things. The stereotype is that they're prissy, snotty and fake. Like most stereotypes it is based partially on truth, but like any stereotype it should never be applied to individuals.

There is also a stereotype about people like your SIL (and to some extent myself), that we're brutish, under-educated and not very refined. So it goes both ways. She's probably had people look down on her or treat her badly and noticed that they also happened to like a lot of these things that you like. So she takes that stereotype and unfortunately applies it to you. It's a real shame.

I have both types of people in my family. And I have my personal preferences, but the people who are less like me I just focus on the good in them and ignore the rest, realizing that what puts me off is superficial and not really a good indicator as to what kind of people they are. Too bad she can't seem to do the same.

[hobbit 10]

Ah, I think I see what's going on now. There are many different cultures in America. There's the tofu loving, organic loving, play loving, ballet loving crowd, who usually look down upon those who don't love those kinds of things. And then there's the crowd who hates those things and looks down on those who love them as elitists.

It's a shame that your SIL can't just accept that there are these superficial differences between you two. She clearly thought you didn't care about those kinds of things when your husband told her you're a shirt and jeans girl. When she said, "Oh good, she's not prissy" - that's what she was talking about! "Shirt and jeans" said to her that you had a certain down-to-earthness and genuineness that she now doesn't think you have.

Unfortunately for you, she's stereotyping you based on your likes and dislikes. She stereotyped you positively when she heard you're a shirt & jeans girl. And now she's stereotyping you negatively based on the kinds of foods you like (among other things).

I'm probably more like her in my tastes. I don't care about organic foods (except for milk which tastes so delicious)! There is a stereotype in this country about people who like those kinds of things. The stereotype is that they're prissy, snotty and fake. Like most stereotypes it is based partially on truth, but like any stereotype it should never be applied to individuals.

There is also a stereotype about people like your SIL (and to some extent myself), that we're brutish, under-educated and not very refined. So it goes both ways. She's probably had people look down on her or treat her badly and noticed that they also happened to like a lot of these things that you like. So she takes that stereotype and unfortunately applies it to you. It's a real shame.

I have both types of people in my family. And I have my personal preferences, but the people who are less like me I just focus on the good in them and ignore the rest, realizing that what puts me off is superficial and not really a good indicator as to what kind of people they are. Too bad she can't seem to do the same.

As her brother's wife, I have heard remarks from both sides about each other from time to time. Of course, I don't share what the other said, but it's an interesting position to be in. Since I naturally spend most of the time with my husband, I've heard him lament many times about “my deadbeat sister” but since staying with my sister-in-law, I have also gained more of an insight into her lifestyle and how she views her “the 1%” brother. She puts the blame on him for not bringing me to the “genuine” places that people like her enjoy (Goodwill, Wafflehouse, the dive bar she and her husband frequent on Fridays etc.), and I just play along because I feel I cannot afford to alienate her. Even if I were to say that “organic is healthier”, I fear it would sound loaded given that we both know she and her husband don't keep healthy and don't bother (smoking, eating processed foods etc.). I never pass any judgement since I understand it's her lifestyle choice, but I know her exact reaction would be, “Oh well, we don't bother with those”.

It's precisely because we are so socio-economically different that I am sensitive to her thoughts and perceptions of me. I have even decided to not shop while we are in New York because it would probably appear vulgar to her. For example, before my husband and I married, she said I didn't need a five-thousand dollar dress to wear for just one day. I had told her I didn't see the point of spending money on a 'dream wedding' and she readily agreed with me. On another level, I also don't know if this is gender-related, but there seems to be more space for us women to clash in these areas than men. My husband doesn't care as much as I do, and can still discuss bikes and cars with her husband in spite of their background differences. While Harpa's advice is sound, I don't think I have a lot of mileage to vary!

[Ontarkie 14,226]

You are doing exactly what you say she is doing to you. You are judging her just as much as she is you.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Ontarkie