West Virginia man kills new neighbor without warning, thinking it's his property

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

So, you're making a claim with no sources to back it up. Glad you cleared that up.

Not really, but if you feel that way then you can answer the questions I asked. No links needed.

I have become comfortable with the fact that some people will never be happy, so I really don't try. What difference would it make?

But we can apply some logic to this. The people here that want to take away rights of black people, often say that Vermont has low crime because it has "low population density" But there are 20 states with lower population density and ALL have higher crime. We can look at that and conclude that there is NO correlation between population density and crime. At least not supported by even casual association. Such claims are simply the grasping at straws of uninformed people (they never attach links to their claim...you know why)

On the other hand we have a 30 year history of CC laws being implemented in 45 states (5 already had them previous to 1986) and in EVERY case, including Chicago, crime went down. we can conclude there IS a correlation between concealed carry and reduced crime. If Chicago were the only place it happened, or even the first few places, we could say "wait and see" But when it follows exactly the results of every other state/jurisdiction, there is no doubt. Unless you just want there to be.

As far as permits being issued "yet"...well besides the fact that you do not need an IL permit to carry in IL and that 10s of thousainds of IL residents already hold non-resident permits which are honored by IL...consider also that Vermont has NO permits and never did. Yet we have the lowest crime. Why? Not because everyone IS carrying a gun (I assure you not everyone does) but because everyone CAN carry a gun at any time. When it is known that "IL has concealed carry" and that it gives "reciprocity to other states" there is an immediate benefit because at once you do not know WHO may be carrying guns. This is especially true in the areas of state boundaries since every surrounding state issues CC permits. Every person from MO, IA, WI, IN, and KY may already be carrying a gun. My son has a license from Florida, my brother has one from Utah. Immediately on the court order, classes teaching the Utah license course in IL were full! Utah allows non-residents to obtain a license AND allows them to take the course and qualify outside of Utah. Thousands of people already had CC permits before the IL legislature followed through with the court order.

CC does not reduce crime by actually shooting criminals. If it did, we would certainly not have only 3 or 4 homicides each year in Vermont. It reduces crime by increasing the RISK and reducing the REWARD of crime. Even criminals understand risk/reward.

I am sure you will not be satisfied with the answer...so if you could please, just answer the questions I asked you.

1. In the OP the man was charged with murder, what he did was already illegal. What do you want to change?

2. Why do you wish to deprive black Americans of their individual rights?

Not asking for links, just your thoughts

I'll wait

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I scrolled back 4 pages and did not see one On Topic post. Lot of Korea, Chicago Etc etc.

There have been 9 off topic posts since the removal of the off topic post.

It gives them something to say when they have no knowledge.

No more talk about S. Korea now that we see it is twice as dangerous as our own state. Lots of talk about Chicago (which Marvin said he did not discuss anymore because of racism)

These topics are posted to illicit a discussion on gun control and usually do. The people who wanted the topic then run away or throw personal insults...even insulting other state's cheese and cows! Better yet, if they started the topic they call for a MOD to close it.

I say..."carry on". This is why there are no new federal gun control laws

Oddly enough the people who claim to want peace and prosperity and kum by yah and all that rot are the ones that post hundreds of horror stories and crime reports...then thinking that we should restrict rights. Whya ren't they posting about the 92 young black men that were SAVED in Chicago this year. They act as if it is bad news. They will report on a neighbor who kills his new neighbor and make 10 pages of posts, but not a word when a neighbor kills an assailant of his neighbor.

They are the same ones that bad-mouth Walmart and support the exploitation of illegal aliens by employers!

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Not really, but if you feel that way then you can answer the questions I asked. No links needed.

I have become comfortable with the fact that some people will never be happy, so I really don't try. What difference would it make?

But we can apply some logic to this. The people here that want to take away rights of black people, often say that Vermont has low crime because it has "low population density" But there are 20 states with lower population density and ALL have higher crime. We can look at that and conclude that there is NO correlation between population density and crime. At least not supported by even casual association. Such claims are simply the grasping at straws of uninformed people (they never attach links to their claim...you know why)

On the other hand we have a 30 year history of CC laws being implemented in 45 states (5 already had them previous to 1986) and in EVERY case, including Chicago, crime went down. we can conclude there IS a correlation between concealed carry and reduced crime. If Chicago were the only place it happened, or even the first few places, we could say "wait and see" But when it follows exactly the results of every other state/jurisdiction, there is no doubt. Unless you just want there to be.

As far as permits being issued "yet"...well besides the fact that you do not need an IL permit to carry in IL and that 10s of thousainds of IL residents already hold non-resident permits which are honored by IL...consider also that Vermont has NO permits and never did. Yet we have the lowest crime. Why? Not because everyone IS carrying a gun (I assure you not everyone does) but because everyone CAN carry a gun at any time. When it is known that "IL has concealed carry" and that it gives "reciprocity to other states" there is an immediate benefit because at once you do not know WHO may be carrying guns. This is especially true in the areas of state boundaries since every surrounding state issues CC permits. Every person from MO, IA, WI, IN, and KY may already be carrying a gun. My son has a license from Florida, my brother has one from Utah. Immediately on the court order, classes teaching the Utah license course in IL were full! Utah allows non-residents to obtain a license AND allows them to take the course and qualify outside of Utah. Thousands of people already had CC permits before the IL legislature followed through with the court order.

CC does not reduce crime by actually shooting criminals. If it did, we would certainly not have only 3 or 4 homicides each year in Vermont. It reduces crime by increasing the RISK and reducing the REWARD of crime. Even criminals understand risk/reward.

I am sure you will not be satisfied with the answer...so if you could please, just answer the questions I asked you.

1. In the OP the man was charged with murder, what he did was already illegal. What do you want to change?

2. Why do you wish to deprive black Americans of their individual rights?

Not asking for links, just your thoughts

I'll wait

You're thoughts on this subject are so way off, it's starting to impress me. You absolutely have no idea what you're talking about, so I'll say it in another way, try to keep up:

There are children dying in Chicago, Gary. People under the age of 18 being killed walking home from school, playing in the park, sitting at home on the couch. How does CC help them? Do you propose giving them CC permits? Considering that most of this victims were shot in drive-bys or caught completely unaware when the bullets start flying, I don't know how they could have avoided it being armed.

Then you have younger kids being killed in front of their houses selling lemonade, young mothers being killed putting their kids in car seats, young men walking to the stores and being gunned down without warning, folks being shot by stray bullets. Exactly how will CC solve this? I'll wait for your response on this one.

This isn't a race thing, I don't know why you have made it into one. I'll wager you can't relate in any way to what the victims are going through so you're just saying what you believe. It's ok, you don't know better.

In closing, I'll also wager you've never lived anywhere like Chicago. I've lived in a place like it. I know you haven't because your ignorance of what goes on is showing like a bright red beacon. See, in places like that, having a gun doesn't make you invincible. If Slim lived in Chicago, with his firearms and vest, I'd actually say he's prepared. Because in your mind, a gun makes you ready for any confrontation. In places like that, 99% of the time, you won't even see it coming. You can't talk your way out of a stray bullet, nor can you use a gun when you're shot from behind putting you daughter in her car seat.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

From what I have observed Gary doesn't actually read what anyone writes. He seems to fixate on odd key words, chosen apparently at random and out of any context. Based on that he then seems to assume what he thinks you said out of his own biases. It's very strange.

It's why people get so irritated at his posts, because they constantly have to correct his misinterpretations.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

From what I have observed Gary doesn't actually read what anyone writes. He seems to fixate on odd key words, chosen apparently at random and out of any context. Based on that he then seems to assume what he thinks you said out of his own biases. It's very strange.

It's why people get so irritated at his posts, because they constantly have to correct his misinterpretations.

Pretty much. He turns something so mundane into a heated debate because he throws you so far out in left field, when you have to go that far to correct him, he takes your response and does the same thing. By the time it's all said and done, you're talking about something completely different and exhausted from trying to explain your POV.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Illinois does not honor out of state conceal and carry permits.

Per Illinois State Police:

About halfway down the list of questions:

I have a "conceal and carry" permit issued by another state. Is the permit recognized in Illinois?

No. Illinois does not recognize “conceal and carry” permits from any state. Both non-residents and residents are subject to Illinois’ law, restrictions, and penalties. For a list of other commonly asked questions on transporting firearms in Illinois, please refer to the Transport Your Firearm Legally brochure available on our website.

And here:

https://ccl4illinois.com/ccw/public/home.aspx

At the top of the page:

On July 9, 2013, Public Act 98-63, the Firearm Concealed Carry Act became state law (430 ILCS 66). This law requires an Illinois Concealed Carry License to carry a concealed firearm in Illinois.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/illinois.pdf

Permits/Licenses This State Honors:

Illinois does not honor any other states Permit/License.

[GandD 5,966]

Except that no CC permits have been issued in Illinois yet. So thus far CC has nothing to do with the reduced crime rate.

The promise of cc is enough to begin the reduction.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Illinois does not honor out of state conceal and carry permits.

Per Illinois State Police:

About halfway down the list of questions:

I have a "conceal and carry" permit issued by another state. Is the permit recognized in Illinois?

No. Illinois does not recognize “conceal and carry” permits from any state. Both non-residents and residents are subject to Illinois’ law, restrictions, and penalties. For a list of other commonly asked questions on transporting firearms in Illinois, please refer to the Transport Your Firearm Legally brochure available on our website.

And here:

https://ccl4illinois.com/ccw/public/home.aspx

At the top of the page:

On July 9, 2013, Public Act 98-63, the Firearm Concealed Carry Act became state law (430 ILCS 66). This law requires an Illinois Concealed Carry License to carry a concealed firearm in Illinois.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/illinois.pdf

Permits/Licenses This State Honors:

Illinois does not honor any other states Permit/License.

Gary's relatives don't need no stinking permits!

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

[Peikko 1,575]

From what I have observed Gary doesn't actually read what anyone writes. He seems to fixate on odd key words, chosen apparently at random and out of any context. Based on that he then seems to assume what he thinks you said out of his own biases. It's very strange.

It's why people get so irritated at his posts, because they constantly have to correct his misinterpretations.

I don't know why anyone reads anything he posts other than to have a giggle. Why do we need to know he hasn't posted in x number of hours because of how important his life is outside of VJ? Who does that except perhaps someone who is suffering from a major case of inferiority? Truly a very strange man, and one who has no morals

I'm beginning to suspect he believes he is 'The Most Interesting Man in The World'. Enjoy responsibly!

Edited February 2, 2014 by The Truth™

[spookyturtle 9,465]

[Pooky 3,784]

Yup

[Teddy B 17,252]

Pretty much. He turns something so mundane into a heated debate because he throws you so far out in left field, when you have to go that far to correct him, he takes your response and does the same thing. By the time it's all said and done, you're talking about something completely different and exhausted from trying to explain your POV.

If you can't beat em with facts, dazzle them with bullshyt.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

If you can't beat em with facts, dazzle them with bullshyt.

Sad thing is, it's pretty ingenious if you think about it. That's why Danno and Gary rarely "lose" an argument here. Either they will keep employing this ridiculous method until you're too irritated to keep talking about it, or they'll disappear into another thread if you manage to sift through the bullshyt and still smack the ish out of them. As you can see, Gary's claim about CC has been debunked a few times, and he's been called out by myself and others, so now he's starting more Obama threads or he's gone from the conversation.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Sad thing is, it's pretty ingenious if you think about it. That's why Danno and Gary rarely "lose" an argument here. Either they will keep employing this ridiculous method until you're too irritated to keep talking about it, or they'll disappear into another thread if you manage to sift through the bullshyt and still smack the ish out of them. As you can see, Gary's claim about CC has been debunked a few times, and he's been called out by myself and others, so now he's starting more Obama threads or he's gone from the conversation.

And Vermont!